Is this anti-semitism?

The thing about anti-semitism vs. anti-zionism is that, yes, there are many people who legitimately criticize israel and are even against the idea of a jewish state altogether and yet bear no ill will toward jews. So I recognize the distinction. But I have also witnessed a tendency to just kind of relocate antisemitism to antizionism, much as people who say "I don't hate black people, I just hate N**GERS" don't really get away from the dehumanizing aspects of racism, they just create a large subset to impose them on. (not a perfect parallel, but I think it illustrates the point).

So being that I'm a person who is largely critical of Israel, and even ambivalent about its existence as a Jewish state, I am very open to harsh criticism of Israel. But I still bristle every time that criticism starts to look anything like old anti-semitic tropes. Saying "I don't hate Jews, I just hate bloodsucking zionists" is hardly reassuring to me.

― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Monday, January 28, 2013 5:37 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^

I think I was just gauging opinion

I don't feel in any way qualified to judge any of this, but I'm quietly nodding along to Nilmar/Hurting right now

also you can be anti-israel without bringing the word 'zion' into the picture

yes, it's not like people use the term "americaists" in criticizing the USA (although zionism was an actual thing, it seems like it's more of a convenient epithet these days)

Yeah, I don't like the Zionism term.

anyone who pretends like its a neutral term is full of shit

I agree with Hurting, btw, I just don't think this cartoon adheres to those tropes.

Well, just on a gut level it immediately made me uncomfortable. At that point I tried to ask myself whether that might just be because I am needlessly taking it personally, in a reflexive sort of way, when it isn't actually aimed at me. It kind of has the look and feel of anti-semitic cartoons, if that makes any sense. There's certainly a deep hostility in it and an attempt to demonize -- it makes it look as though Bibi is a monster for whom killing Palestinians is an end in itself. But maybe it's just a sophomoric cartoon with not much to say, and nothing more.

If I am allowed to hate a good many of the actions and policies of my own nation, while still feeling able to see many good traits and qualities in it and its people, then I can just as well hate many of the actions and policies of Israel without getting confused about whether I "hate jews". But, as a goy, if I criticize Israel's policies, I'm never going to be free of the suspicion that I'm just disguising that I am anti-semitic.

**imploringly throws his hands skyward, tilts head back and speaks as if to god**

SUCH an aggravation!

I think it's a sophomoric cartoon, but it didn't make me uncomfortable. It's just another absurd political cartoon. That said, I didn't see it as a cartoon about Bibi desiring the death of Palestinians as an end to itself. I think it's suggesting he's building what he's building on the oppression of the Palestinians.

I do feel he is, to some extent, rallying people behind him by playing up an anti-Palestinian bent.

it's not like people use the term "americaists" in criticizing the USA

we prefer "imperialist dogs" thanks

what happened to "capitalist roaders" as an epithet?

Replaced by "capitalist pigdogs" iirc.

occupied peasants need to draw a distinction between local idiocy and colonial power

lol no tho seriously best of all possible worlds

spooky...
http://i.imgur.com/Cvgdir9.png

Also, this is anti-semitism: http://www.salon.com/2013/01/28/israel_admits_ethiopian_jewish_immigrants_were_given_birth_control_shots/

The article and the comments. Israel did not admit to coercively giving birth control to Ethiopian Jews, but clearly that's what the article wants to suggest and in exchange it gets a dozen comments that say, "Next up: Death camps for the Palestinians," "Man, that is no exaggeration! I wonder when they'll start tattooing numbers on people's arms," & "What a racist despicable cult; like the Nazis keeping the blood pure I guess."

Yeah there's a fair amount of anti semitism going on in those comments,

I think the anti semitism of the article is questionable though.

I'm aware this as already been discussed in other threads btw.

I think the headline and lead are designed to imply that Israel admitted to coercively giving birth control shots. That is certainly what my wife thought when I first showed her the headline.

Yeah, it's a shit headline, but it's Salon and they produce a load of misleading headlines. The article does attempt to back them up, but as was discussed in the other thread, there are dubious qualities to that.

At this point I would say again that anti-Israel doesn't mean anti-Semite.

There's a lot of anti-America imperialism wrapped up in the Israel question, and I don't think that comes down to hating Jews at all.

the whole strain of "jews are the REAL nazis" "thought" is so despicable and wearying no matter where you come down on the issue, i guess it's parallel to the "affirmative action is the REAL racism" bullshit

http://www.geraldscarfe.com/shop/politics/i-saw-a-baby-die-today/

A bit of context re: Scarfe's work - Assad literally drinking baby's blood.

"The more Israel exist the more it becomes evident maybe the Europeans of 20s and 30s were not so far off!"

No biggie. Just comments on Salon.

hateful views in a comment section??? that's fucked up

this is cute, should i get one for my desk at work? http://www.oldjewishmen.com/product/blood-libel-leibowitz-designer-toy

(comment on anti-semitism, not actually anti-semitic)

$85.00

vinyl anti-semitic kitsch is expensive!

http://www.geraldscarfe.com/shop/politics/i-saw-a-baby-die-today/

A bit of context re: Scarfe's work - Assad literally drinking baby's blood.

― Deafening silence (DL), Tuesday, 29 January 2013 10:29 (5 hours ago) Permalink

this does actually make me feel a less strongly about the bibi cartoon

Who are you guys?
Courtney Bernard, Yankel Farkash and Isaac Buchman. A group of independent artists who have each spent a fair share of our time in New York’s Lower East Side.

bizarre

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jan/29/sunday-times-editor-benjamin-netanyahu-cartoon

how do ppl in the UK feel about having one (1) legitimate newspaper for the whole country, alongside an assortment of Murdoch mouthpieces and aspirants

is that anti-Semitism? Is Rupert Murdoch Jewish? I wouldn't be shocked if he was tbh

because he controls the media?

the Indie's not that legitimate tbh

Rupert Murdoch isn't Jewish. In fact, his two youngest kids were baptised in the River Jordan while godfather Tony Blair watched.

and then a white dove landed on Tony's shoulder

Rupert Murdoch has previous for talking about the "Jew owned press", despite owning the press.

https://twitter.com/rupertmurdoch/status/269973016753102849

"Why Is Jewish owned press so consistently anti- Israel in every crisis?"

https://twitter.com/rupertmurdoch/status/270209388478857218

"",Jewish owned press" have been sternly criticised, suggesting link to Jewish reporters. Don't see this, but apologise unreservedly."

jop = nyt

he still has the ludicrous notion of himself as anti-establishment

nyt are his windmill of the day just as he tilted at various british grandees back in the day

how do ppl in the UK feel about having one (1) legitimate newspaper for the whole country, alongside an assortment of Murdoch mouthpieces and aspirants

― Instagram Llewyn Davis (silby), Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:57 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

at least they have (1)

lol at the idea that the mirror is legitimate

nilmer-bait

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterOfTrotsky.jpg

let me try that again

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterOfTrotsky.jpg/434px-WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterOfTrotsky.jpg