is there a name or a phrase for or anything much written about that distinctly British CREEPY VIBE prevalent in TV shows and movies of the '60s/'70s? (e.g. The Prisoner, Sapphire and Steel, Baker-era

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (503 of them)

sure it does, it's called the 70s.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 2 March 2013 20:53 (eleven years ago) link

None of the stuff listed here is wacky in that way. Campy, maybe. But not student japes zaniness.

emil.y, Saturday, 2 March 2013 20:56 (eleven years ago) link

the scarfolk blog is totally of a kind with the comedy books from 70s england I remember being all over our house, although yeah it's a different strain than the stuff that's the main focus of this thread. definitely related though.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 2 March 2013 21:01 (eleven years ago) link

Well, yeah! It's riffing on the stuff that is on this thread, totally. But the tonality it chooses sets it up as external to this stuff. It's a parody more than it's a pastiche.

emil.y, Saturday, 2 March 2013 21:04 (eleven years ago) link

It's like Ghost Box (which, although I like in principle I also feel is a bit over-egged) done for comedy by the Charlie Brooker that's completely run out of ideas.

Troughton-masked Replicant (aldo), Saturday, 2 March 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link

See, I don't think that GB is over-done. They don't often write massive backstories, their presentation is mostly kept to sound and design, and the stories they have are firmly based in prosaic realism, not zany surreality.

emil.y, Saturday, 2 March 2013 21:15 (eleven years ago) link

See I've tried, but a record like... We Are All Pan's People, for argument's sake, just turned me off.

Troughton-masked Replicant (aldo), Saturday, 2 March 2013 21:22 (eleven years ago) link

I like that Scarfolk blog - the posters are really well done. Great idea.
Also, talking of parodies, I assume you've all seen Garth Marenghi's Dark Place? God I loved that show but they only made 6. Definitely an 80s parody though, not 70s, but more importantly it parodies low budget, weird horror - albeit badly acted, produced, directed, ...
Parts of it remind me of some of the Hammer stuff, things like The One Game, Dr Who, Children of the Stones, but all ridiculously tongue in cheek. I suppose having lived in Romford helps too!

Geronibload, Saturday, 2 March 2013 21:52 (eleven years ago) link

Garth Marenghi is far closer to the likes of Shaun Hutson and Guy N Smith than this thread imo.

Troughton-masked Replicant (aldo), Saturday, 2 March 2013 22:04 (eleven years ago) link

Oh I don't know ... "characterized by spartan production values (which are generally made a virtue of), often a surface sense of middle-class normalcy masking something sinister, and also often a hidden authoritarian and/or supernatural power."
Yeah definite paralells between those authors and the author in the show.

Geronibload, Saturday, 2 March 2013 22:51 (eleven years ago) link

Think I'll build a fire and watch some of these tonight... not much winter left down here, could be the last chance.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 2 March 2013 23:22 (eleven years ago) link

'la cabina' is a proper little nightmare, thanks for posting it geronibload.

So: The Answers (or something), Sunday, 3 March 2013 09:48 (eleven years ago) link

Hey So' - yeah I'm sorry about that. Imagine seeing it as a kid though! It's so O/T from the original thread I shouldn't have posted it here really - it just popped into my head while I was thinking of the other stuff.

Geronibload, Sunday, 3 March 2013 20:06 (eleven years ago) link

three months pass...

Just want to call attention to this show, as followers of this thread may dig it:
The Returned (French supernatural drama on Channel 4)

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 28 June 2013 09:19 (eleven years ago) link

Can't believe no-one on this thread's mentioned The Changes. Super creeped me out as a kid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYkkfBMK-7c

my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Friday, 28 June 2013 09:42 (eleven years ago) link

three months pass...

someone tell me that's steven stapleton in robin redbreast

gotta lol geir (NickB), Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:01 (eleven years ago) link

Robin Redbreast has not been repeated since 1971, and yet is often recalled by viewers of the time, probably because of its eerie atmosphere, and particularly for its horrifying and surreal finale.

I like to tackle hard and am crazy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:06 (eleven years ago) link

Not seen any of those, let me know if they're good.

emil.y, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:07 (eleven years ago) link

its eerie atmosphere, and particularly for its horrifying and surreal finale

sounds like my journey to work tbh

gotta lol geir (NickB), Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link

anyway, if it really hasn't been repeated since 1971 then i'll be surprised if anybody here's seen it. the cover made me want to not read any more of that synopsis tho so i don't spoil it.

I like to tackle hard and am crazy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:09 (eleven years ago) link

Another couple of things that are coming out as part of this BFI gothic thing are Schalcken the Painter, and Scary Stories ("a collection of creepy kids films from the Children’s Film Foundation featuring The Man from Nowhere, Haunters of the Deep and Out of the Darkness") *blank look*

gotta lol geir (NickB), Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:11 (eleven years ago) link

Dead Of Night - The Exorcism is on YouTube.

Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:13 (eleven years ago) link

always glad to see this great thread revived!

Brad C., Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:18 (eleven years ago) link

Robin Redbreast is being touted as 'the folk-horror precursor to the Wicker Man'. The alternative cover for it:

http://www.ukhorrorscene.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/robinredbreast.jpg

gotta lol geir (NickB), Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:19 (eleven years ago) link

saw this one recently. kim stanley's face in lighting is v creepy.

http://www.leytonstonefilmclub.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/seance_on_a_wet_afternoon_uk_dvd.jpg

JEFF 22 (Matt P), Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:24 (eleven years ago) link

I like how http://scarfolk.blogspot.ca/ satirizes these aesthetics and is sometimes legitimately creepy in its own right

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f9XlZ0ImI1U/UQ-5YwFySKI/AAAAAAAAA44/WR4LYc8XEl8/s640/Children+and+hallucinogens.jpg

brio, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:48 (eleven years ago) link

ha! oh damn - must read whole thread

brio, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 21:49 (eleven years ago) link

I love Seance, Matt P.

emil.y, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 22:55 (eleven years ago) link

Not sure whether this has been mentioned yet but series 3 of the League of Gentlemen is such a rich and under appreciated exercise in this style

Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Wednesday, 9 October 2013 23:39 (eleven years ago) link

In other news I've started watching the Children of the Stones and it's great!!

Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Wednesday, 9 October 2013 23:42 (eleven years ago) link

Since this thread has been bumped, I'd like to put forth an idea of mine for discussion: Am I the only one who sees the movie Hausu (1977) as a Japanese culture-bound manifestation of similar uncanniness?

Word Salad Username (j.lu), Thursday, 10 October 2013 02:38 (eleven years ago) link

one month passes...

Dead Of Night is ok. I had seen the first episode before so skipped it, but from memory it was quite good. The second story is rather uninteresting but Anna Massey is good value in the third.

Struggling with Supernatural. Two episodes in and it's heavy Gothic pastiche with little to recommend it. Maybe it will pick up.

Ramnaresh Samhain (ShariVari), Sunday, 24 November 2013 09:44 (ten years ago) link

In order to pitch in to this excellent thread I can only add that The Omega Factor was not just shown in scotland, though it may have been a northern thing as I was living in Darlington at the time.

Am I wrong to think that some of the uncanniness in the many HTV productions persisted into Robin of Sherwood

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Sunday, 24 November 2013 10:04 (ten years ago) link

Ah, glad someone revived this thread, I can never remember what it's called exactly and is difficult to search for. Have bookmarked now.

I too have watched DEAD OF NIGHT this week - appropriate in this DOCTOR WHO anniversary week, as there are some deep old school Who connections (Innes Lloyd, Louis Marks, Robert Holmes). Perhaps the creepiest thing about the three surviving episodes are their opening credits - totally 'hommaged' in BERBERIAN SOUND STUDIO - although the first story on the disc, 'The Exorcism', def. has its moments. There's a great dinner party scene where the food and drink suddenly turns inedible: there's a kind of marxist subtext throughout, with past crimes against the poor revenged on today's middle classes (though the only way the underclasses get to speak here is literally through the (possessed) voice of the ruling class). Both 'The Exorcism' and 'The Weeping Woman' (the one w/ Anna Massey) belong to the 'property horror' genre, typified by the later AMITYVILLE HORROR series - nice, middle class houses becomes sites of trauma and oppression.

ROBIN REDBREAST also fits into this genre, while at the same time totally anticipating THE WICKER MAN with its emphasis on an outsider unwittingly drawn into pagan ritual and sacrifice. Bernard Hepton gives a particularly creepy performance as a local history expert ("I'm a reading man") and some of the black and white cinematography is really atmospheric. It's a keeper.

Ward Fowler, Sunday, 24 November 2013 10:31 (ten years ago) link

I dunno if this is the right place, but god did I enjoy this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi9pZEhNQvQ

polyphonic, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 23:53 (ten years ago) link

one month passes...

Wow, saw Robin Redbreast last night and really really enjoyed. The b&w print makes it hard to guess it was from as late as 1970 though. It's been a while since I was on the folk-horror tip but I think I might have to rummage around some more again.

ineloquentwow (Craigo Boingo), Sunday, 26 January 2014 14:10 (ten years ago) link

four weeks pass...

Supernatural is mostly great so far (6/8 watched). 'Mr Nightingale' and 'Viktoria' especially.

Slight damage to cover on top corner (chewed by a kitten) (Craigo Boingo), Sunday, 23 February 2014 16:25 (ten years ago) link

I'm enjoying it a lot, but it's not particularly creepy in the sense of this thread. It's too fun. 'Viktoria' maybe comes closest, and is written by Lake rather than Muller, but even then it's more of a romp.

emil.y, Sunday, 23 February 2014 16:43 (ten years ago) link

Also, yes, it's period gothic rather than contemporary - most of the things that fit here are contemporaneous w/ the era of broadcast, but permeated with a mystic/mythic ancient type spook.

emil.y, Sunday, 23 February 2014 16:45 (ten years ago) link

three months pass...

Didn't even know there was a TV version of Red Shift, so v. excited abt that:

http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/news-bfi/announcements/bfi-dvd-releases-announced-augustseptember-2014

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 11 June 2014 11:26 (ten years ago) link

watched Children of the Stones recently on Youtube and loved it so fuckin' much. Had never heard of it before this year. You guys (teh britishes) are lucky to have had such staggeringly strange TV in that decade. Jesus christ I want the soundtrack for CotS so bad! Of course none has ever been released. I ripped the audio from the main title but what I really want is the great choral stuff for when the happy-dayers are in their ritual circles.

a chap could lose his bearings in weather like this (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 11 June 2014 14:51 (ten years ago) link

two months pass...

The Boy From Space is out there now

http://www.theartsshelf.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/819dLz1Wb2L._SL1500_.jpg

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 29 August 2014 00:45 (ten years ago) link

one month passes...

Also "Red Shift", which is all kinds of bonkers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-YkmZPA5K0

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 16:05 (ten years ago) link

Still not sure if The Prisoner belongs on this thread, and the fact that it's been scarcely discussed suggests other people agree with me.

... and a Martin Parr photo essay (Tom D.), Wednesday, 22 October 2014 00:34 (ten years ago) link

woah

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Wednesday, 22 October 2014 01:27 (ten years ago) link

this thread hits the spot - in fact I think Ward Fowler recommended it when we met up and were discussing some of this stuff in Glasgow a while back.

some great recommendations here (still haven't seen Robin Redbreast.

I've got a sort of theoretical model which is horribly generalised but goes something like this, so bear with me (er, this turned out to be a long post, sorry):

At the end of the 19th Century there was a schism in horror/ghost writing. Arthur Machen is the key person here, with his mixture of malign pastoral (that is to say it is not edenic or supernal), chthonic malevolent faeries (almost certainly versions of the Celtic so-called 'barrow-folk'), Roman syncretism (displacing chthonic, and 'spiritual'/of the stars), and the tentacle, or black degradation, itself a part of the Neoplatonic chain-of-being expressed by by the Silurian mage, Thomas Vaughan, as I wrote elsewhere:

The 17th century mystic Thomas Vaughan, like Machen a Silurian Welsh, wrote of the chain of being where ‘beneath all degrees of sense there is a certain horrible, inexpressible darkness. The magicians called it tenebrae activae.’ This crudely sentient and primal darkness is like a canker that infects first soul and then flesh. So it is that Helen Vaughan in The Great God Pan, Mrs Black in The Inmost Light, and Francis Leicester in The Novel of the White Powder all end up ‘a dark and putrid mass, seething with corruption and hideous rottenness, neither liquid nor solid, but melting and changing before our eyes, and bubbling with unctuous oily bubbles like boiling pitch.’

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_chain_of_being#mediaviewer/File:Great_Chain_of_Being_2.png

^ great chain of being, see base for boiling pitch

The interplay between these is complicated, and it's worth saying that MR James had also had a very effective tentacle in, I think, Count Magnus.

Arthur Machen's important for this genealogy is because the American journalist, Vincent Starrett, who had a fascination with Machen, wrote an article on him, and was friends with HP Lovecraft. It was in this way that the tentacle stretched across the Atlantic, and in HP Lovecraft's hands multiplied into a mythos with, like Machen, separate chthonic and stellar aspects.

Crucially it seems to me are the visual elements of Lovecraft - much English ghost story writing was quite reticent in this respect (MR James in particular nests his horror in shadows or heavily framed narrative/pictorial devices). Machen did visualise, but the moment of revelation was usually also the end of the piece. Lovecraft was all MORE TENTACLES GIVE ME MORE I MUST DESCRIBE THE UNDESCRIBABLE TERROR. Sometimes I feel this is a division between horror and ghost writing, though I'm not sure that's right (horror writing doesn't always heavily visualise). What I *do* think is that heavily visual element in Lovecraft (and subsequently horror writing in general) lent itself extremely well to comic books and film when they came along. It became part of popular culture.

At the same time in the UK, Machen had dropped his malign pastoral, and started concentrating on supernal stuff, Grail legend, still with elements of the little folk, but without the black degradation - he himself wrote 'Here then was my real failure; I translated awe, at worst awfulness, into evil.' Completely RONG of course, but n/m, point is it took him in a different direction that was characteristic of English supernatural writing generally.

I've got loads of gaps here, but as far as I can tell, English supernatural writing was free of visual horror throughout the first half of the 20th Century. The supernatural pastoral strain is extremely strong. Writers like diverse figures like John Betjeman, Denton Welch, the composer John Ireland, Jocelyn Brooke, Michael Powell (P&Pressburger) were influenced and were fans of the uncanny pastoral. Edwardian (and later) children's writing is full of it (E Nesbitt's Psammead is a chthonic fairy, the Hobbits are barrow folk, there's a fuckton of Graal stuff). Walter de la Mare belongs here too. It sat closer to high culture than it did popular culture. The reticence I mentioned earlier means there's a 'writing of unease' or even 'the unpleasant' (such an English word) - Eleanor Smith wrote some good gypsy/circus based stuff, Roald Dahl's short stories probably fit here. There's a very good set of stories by the young Elizabeth Jane Howard (with Robert Aickman) called We Are For the Dark. This is a genre probably best described as the 'macabre'.

I don't think the effect of the two wars can be dismissed here - the First World War, like the Boer war, saw a mass level of death of youth, which resulted in a fuck load of spiritism, table tapping, ghosts summoned up by grieving parents. Reading Edwardian children's fantasy both wars saw a lot of displacement to the countryside (for different reasons - wealthy children moved out 'while Father's away' in the WWI stories, evacuation in WWII obv) which perpetuated the pastoral - rus v urb distinctions.

John Wyndham I feel is essentially pastoral - it was a criticism I think of Brian Aldiss on JW that his novels always basically ended up with a return to a pastoral eden. The village of the Midwich Cuckoos is essential for the claustrophobia, but is also a v English Victorian genre location - I liked clemenza's point above though about US suburbia, which is often available for parables of uniformity, but i think that is different to John Wyndham's use here.

Chocky is the great counter-example.

John Christopher's incredibly bleak and effective The Death of Grass is also an eco/pastoral catastrophe.

In the US, it feels like science, the military, nuclear power, and space exploration are the crucial WWII elements - the stellar and alien precedes space exploration of course, and I'd suggest it's essentially the English druidic/mystical strain (a Romantic crypto-history), filtered through Machen-Lovecraftian monstrosity, with the religious elements removed. It becomes v difficult and probably meaningless to separate out much horror and science-fiction in the US post-war.

there's a quote I picked up the other day, which was originally in The Gentleman's Magazine, which sums up the British status for me:

“In England, everything of unknown origin is instinctively assigned to one of four - Julius Caesar, King Arthur, the Druids or the Devil.”

— TG Bonney - The Gentleman’s Magazine 1866

That was referring to the hazy archaeological theories of stone age monuments and remains, but such theories were extremely strong in late British Romanticism, and persisted culturally, so that you could say that of an awful lot of

The UK television that's mentioned in this thread sits firmly in this strain. Penda's Fen, which I will have to watch again cos it's great - v strong pastoral both musically - Elgar - and spiritually - pagan loca sacra. Nigel Kneale is central here. He introduces US science fiction elements to his horror, pulling together the two lines that had split early on: Quatermass and the Pit is a direct SF interpretation of Machen (separate strands of chthonic little folk and interstellar horror), the final Quatermass picks up on the popular revival of Neolithic monument theorising and adds the Quatermass-UK-tradition of nuclear and radio research to the mix. Extremely effective. See also Children of the Stones and Kneale's The Stone Tape. These are all the elements of that late Victorian Romanticism/archaeological theory, but with the crucial innovation of bringing in science-fiction. This gives brings British horror up-to-date in a way it hadn't really been, and also gives the science-fiction a very British flavour, that I'd located at the centre of this thread.

Kneale's Beasts sits somewhere between those Tales of Unease and traditional horror - Baby is the most remarkable of these imo.

plenty of gaps here: i'm interested in any 'ah no but because' responses. also interested to know about exceptions to early 20th C British horror writing theory, and also more about that yoking together of SCIENCE+ANCIENT HISTORY (or Romantic history - caesar, arthur, druids, devil bit).

Clearly The Avengers and The Prisoner don't fit into this - and I STILL haven't seen Sapphire and Steel, for shame.

there's some old good k-punk posts limning this stuff, aren't they? or maybe it was just a long parenthesis whilst talking about the Fall again. but mentioned the stone tape and the later quatermass.

one wonders if you could include: those creepy public info spots ('apaches' etc); the wicker man; i had a third, but i have forgotten whilst writing this sentence. m.r. james? enh.

― thomp, Sunday, May 1, 2011 9:55 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i need to read these! can you remember where they are?

For what it's worth, I see The Fall along with Nigel Kneale as the other great example of bringing English supernatural writing into modern times - I wrote more about this on The Fall ballot thread.

For the third great post-war figure - JG Ballard - I'd also say much of his writing deals explicitly with versions of pastoral.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 22 October 2014 10:14 (ten years ago) link

let's try that chain of being pic again:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Great_Chain_of_Being_2.png#mediaviewer/File:Great_Chain_of_Being_2.png

Fizzles, Wednesday, 22 October 2014 10:15 (ten years ago) link

> The ugly-wuglies scene in The Enchanted Castle by Elizabeth Nesbit definitely qualifies, although the rest of it is distinctly uncreepy. No videos available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QtHGlJMcY

koogs, Wednesday, 22 October 2014 10:42 (ten years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.