RFI: Italy

http://www.outlet-firenze.com/bottega_veneta_outlet.htm

in rome, there's a really good place just down the street from the pantheon, called due colonne. we had a good lunch there.

we spent two weeks in florence, siena and rome, and never had any problem with not speaking italian. sometimes we had to use hand gestures, and having good guidebooks is a big help, but in the cities especially english is usually enough to get by. (i heard an italian giving directions to german tourists in english, because it was the only language they all understood.)

http://www.ristorante-belvedere.it/

The Restorante Belvedere is on the beach and the fishing boats pull right up to it. They have an English version of the menu available, which they kindly offered to me. When I choose the Italian one, they were very patient with me when I butchered their language. There were a few tables full of tourists, but lots of locals as well. The food was wonderful and set me back about 30 euros for a three course meal with wine.

I'm going to Italy in January. No real destination other than Rome because that's where I'm flying into, but I'm going to try to grab a train up to Venice and back through Florence/Siena. This will be my second trip to Italy - the first time I was in Lake Como, Milan, and Trieste.

I'll consider the trip a success even if I just hang out in Rome and drink coffee all day, but recent reports encouraged.

Well aware of that. It keeps the fair-weathered tourists away.

A good itinerary would be Rome-Perugia-Siena-Arezzo-Firenze-Venice- Zurich

Siena has the truly excellent Palazzo delle Papesse modern art gallery.

Going in June - probably Rome, Venice and Milan. So - revive. And anything important/recent to know?

drive around - dont fly around. also, visit assisi if you get the chance.

Don't drive or fly around, take the train, it is cheap and you will meet people.

I wouldn't spend too much time in Milan. Take a look at stopping in Siena, Perugia, Assisi and or Ravenna on your way up to Venice.

Not to denigrate Milan, but given a limited amount of time on a first trip to Italy, it wouldn't be top of my list.

I was waiting for Ed to appear and talk about trains, which are very cool in Italy. Try to arrive in Venice when it's dark because you'll be even more blown away when you wake up to it in the morning.

Milan is no good unless you have fashion business but I've heard good things about 10 Corso Como, which is expensive or trendy shopping.

The Duomo in Milan is very impressive (on the outside) and you can go up onto the roof, but as others have said I wouldn't bother spending more than a day there at most.

('there' = Milan, not the cathedral roof)

milan kinda blows for tourists.. and for fashion too unless you like shiny italian suits. though 10 corso como is pretty fly. if you got $$$

I'm in Venice v briefly (roughly 24 hours) on June 16th/17th, flying to Rome for three days and then Florence for a couple more after that. No trains for me tho alas.

Hey, we'll be in Italy at the same time. I'm leaving June 15th and coming back the 29th.

yeah, take the train if you want to meet other tourists, i guess

i'll be getting into milan on june 18th/19th and playing music in some small towns for a week, then in southern switzerland for a couple of weeks.

?
Take the train if you want to meet Italians.

Also flying in Italy this summer will suck. Alitalia is going to go bust or be strike ridden and that will have knock on effects with the other carriers. Besides, FFS, it is only 700km between Rome and Venice with lots of beautiful countryside in between.

xpost
the question mark was a expression of bemusement at Surmounter's post.

Ed is right, the train's the best thing to travel on in Italy.

REMEMBER TO STAMP YOUR TICKET AT THE SMALL MACHINE BEFORE GETTING ON! This is not made clear enough to foreigners. Also slow train from Florence means that you pass near Siena and things.

Assisi is a must. Cannot emphasize it enough!

i assume you mean me, ed?

you both didnt meet any italians driving through italy?

I'm flying because I would only have one night in Venice otherwise - schedule is tight. Also it was revoltingly cheap (£15 RyanAir).

Why do you want to meet Italians on a train? What makes you think Italians get on trains thinking "oh, I hope some tourist bothers me today"?

But thirded, the trains aren't bad. Personally I'd rather have a car for freedom and stuff but the trains are probably cheaper.

I never bother anyone on the train, but plenty have struck up conversations with me. (including one who took pity on me as I was living in turin at the time)

What's the WIFI situation in Italy right now? Is it hard to get a free connection in Rome? Are there hotspots?

We're heading to a campsite by Lake Garda this summer. I've just received the 'parc guide' and am a bit alarmed by these two bits:
Swimming caps must be worn in the pool
and
In order to use the pool facilities, many require their male guests to wear fitted lycra swimming shorts, and not the 'boxer' or 'surf' style. Please check with the parc for their restrictions on this.

I lived in Italy for three years, but I never went to a swimming pool in that time. The thing about swimming caps does ring a bell, though - I'm pretty sure a female (British) colleague of mine was moaning about it. Would they seriously expect me to wear one? (I am a man with hair shaved to just a few millimetres length). What about my three-year-old daughter?

As for the trunks thing, this just seems mental. From experience, I know hypochondria is par for the course in Italy - the terror of the 'colpo d'aria' which is unknown in the rest of the world, for example, or the number of people I met who genuinely feared a shower soon after eating could cause them serious harm - and in this context the hair / swimming cap thing makes some sense on a hygiene level. But I can't even begin to see what the thinking is behind the clamping down on 'boxer/surf' style swimming costumes. It doesn't seem to make sense on any level: I can't see any health issue (real or imagined) and if the issue was one of, er, 'modesty' then surely the speedos would be outlawed and the baggy trunks encouraged?

Caps are definitely a hygiene thing and they are required in almost every Italian swimming pool.
As for the shorts, this is completely news for me too - never heard about any "restriction" about it and its patently a crazy idea.

a lot of american pools forbid cut-offs, t-shirts and other "non-standard" forms of swimwear. perhaps an absurdly uptight extension of the same idea?

i guess "a lot" there really = "some." i really mean that it's not unheard of.

I don't even get the hygiene thing with swimming caps? Is it something to do with hair, because of the several Italians I know, the majority are pretty hairy all over.

What all sensible Italians are wearing to the pool this year...
http://racked.com/uploads/2011-04-Nigella-Lawson-Burkini.jpg

Thanks, Marco. I've scanned the campsite's website and there are several photos of people in and around the pool with their brazenly uncovered heads and their outrageously non-skintight swimwear, so hopefully this is just an overzealous tip for travellers that bears little relation to reality.

Ned - yeah this was puzzling me, too. For the sake of consistency you'd think they would have to insist that bearded men wore special beard covers and that anyone with a remotely hairy body would have to wrap themselves in cling film.

Ah, the colpo d'aria thing made me laugh hard - blame hyperprotective Italian moms!

Re...vive?

Milan, Venice, Sicily (mainly Palermo and Catania) and Rome.

Really keen on getting the train from Venice to Sicily but it's a hell of a long ride so thinking Florence and Naples on the way.

Would recommendations on bars, venues, and how to find gigs. Non-obvious tourist stuff? The sort of stuff that should be really easy now compared to fifteen years ago, but sorta isn't?

I thought this was going to be about the anti-vaxxer health minister firing all the scientists from the board that supervises health policy in Italy.

My advice. Go in the autumn. There’s a lot more between Venice and Sicily and if you want gigs places like Bologna and Verona get a lot of touring acts.

more antipasto less anti-vaxxers ffs. As if you didn't already need more proof that the 5 star lot are complete scum of the earth morons.

Fuck Florence if you want non touristy things - it's possible but it's so bloody crowded. It's a shame because obviously it's awesome in many ways. My sister in law is there now and seems to be enjoying it but it's still busy (obviously).Avoid the summer.

I've been to Naples in October/November and had good weather and the streets are a bit quieter. I don't find Naples terribly touristy, a lot of people en route to Capri, etc in the summer/autumn, but I loved the place, they've done a lot of pedestrianising over the last ten years which has improved yr ability to walk around without being run over.

Already vaccinated, already going midway through December until February.

Ed you had an impressive list upthread, anything you'd add/remove/change?

Florence is great in the winter / out of season. Even some of the big attractions are fine if you go at the right time (Palazzo Pitti first thing in the morning,etc).

I’m completely out of the loop on bars / venues but Nottingham Forest in Milan is great for cocktails.

Trains are superb. I think I did Milan-Napoli earlier this year and it’s painless.

I had not heard of it either but it's super, super close to vacqueyras/gigondas where I did a grape harvest.I've gone in and out of the Orange and Avignon train station a lot.

we would consider alternatives to Genoa anywhere on the Ligurian coast if anyone has recommendations, just stopping for a night or two because it's on the way to Florence

well the Cinque Terre is lovely! I haven't been for twenty years though. when we went we just showed up in Vernazza, asked at a bar if he knew of any rooms in town, ended up staying with the bartender's sister's family for a couple of days. a kind of proto airb&b I guess.

thank you, will investigate.

Genoa is worth it - a bit gritty with a real port atmosphere. The old town is dark, sinewy and interesting. Also it's a perfect base for some nice day trips, eg Cinque Terre but also Porto Fino, which off season is truly lovely.

Sestri Levante is a very nice medium-sized town that you can use as a base to visit the Cinque Terre, etc. It is pricy, but Hotel Vis a Vis is awesome with wonderful views of two bays.

I just booked for a trip to hike in the Dolomites in the first week of September. Does anyone have any recommendations on hiking (especially overnight stays in a Refugio), where to stay, restaurants, etc.?

I recommend 'Midnight In Sicily' if anyone is looking for a history of Italy focussing on the corruptions of Andreotti and a personal take of the years 1978-1992. It's in English.