tipping

lol caek

dayo, why are you trying to bait kevin into saying something racist?

ou ever go hungry? was the food always cold when it was brought to the table? did you taste the spit that the cooks expectorated into the food? were there cigarette butts in your maitais?

“What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings? Do you give the horse its strength or clothe its neck with a flowing mane? Do you make it leap like a locust, striking terror with its proud snorting?"

manifesto from an american tipper

to all british people, europeans and foreigners without tipping in their country: you don't understand/like the tipping system - i get it and i'm okay with it. different strokes, etc.

to americans who don't tip (and i assume a lot of people who are critical of the tipping system fall into this category): may you rot in the ninth circle of cheapass bastard hell.

whether you vote republican and democratic, you are the worst stereotype of capitalism incarnated, sniping and begrudging anyone who you see as taking a piece of "your" pie. i honestly believe you are constantly looking for opportunities to make a quick buck at the expense of others, and your arguments against tipping make your character transparent. there may be good reasons against tipping culture, but if so, they're nothing but fig leaves for your cheap, selfish personality.

there is a strong possibility the type of person who will steal from your friends and neighbors if you are 99% sure you won't get caught. if you do vote for progressive democrats, you are the kind of hypocrite that likes to talk about helping the working classes but refuse to put your money where your mouth is, even for a measly $3 per week.

this thread has got my blood boiling, i'm probably overstating my case, but i honestly feel that Americans who don't tip do their small part to rip apart the fabric of society. especially when you say you don't tip because librarians and bus drivers don't get tipped - I call BS.

for those of you who DO tip but have problems with the custom, may i suggest going to house parties instead of bars. at least there you can smoke, mingle with under-21s if that's your bag, and do a whole bunch of other things that may be verboten in a public setting. all without tipping. also, in any community you will find some of the best local bands playing at house shows - you would be surprised how many truly magnificent musicians never play in public settings due to insecurity/lack of confidence or obliviousness/lack of interest.

who the fuck says people who are critical of the tipping system don't tip?

Jak

got it, thanks!

mingle with under-21s if that's your bag,

o_õ

would like to point out just for posterity for the reading challenged that i always tip well and think that people who don't are assholes

dayo, why are you trying to bait kevin into saying something racist?

― call all destroyer, Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:40 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

not trying to 'bait' him, trying to make him reveal what he really believes the purpose of tipping to be

jak can you tell me where some good house parties are? thanks.

not trying to 'bait' him, trying to make him reveal what he really believes the purpose of tipping to be

― 乒乓, Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:50 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think most waiters themselves would agree with k3v's purpose of tipping

i really find it hard to believe that there are differences between the level of service in thailand, and other parts of the world where they don't tip, and here. as someone who's spent extensive time in those places. k3v, you probably just had a slow server in thailand, but that's nothing to do with the fact that you don't tip her. she wouldn't come running any faster if she knew there was an extra few hundred baht waiting for her when you left. (and which you made pains to point out that you gave her anyway! but that has nothing to do with any 'service' you may or may not have received, as you yourself said.)

bordering a little on telling k3v his unique negative experience wasn't a valid one.

shut up dude

dayo, the point of tipping at all is because waiters work shitty jobs with no bennies. my default tip of 20-25% is generous just because i feel like it, and like the literally 2 times in my life i haven't tipped at least 20%, i still probably gave 10-15%, because even though this person was an asshole, he or she still worked a shitty job without full bennies and deserved that money. if it's "gross" to dock someone that marginal 5 bucks for being an exceptional douchebag and making me have a bad time while i gave them money, boo hoo imo

i also never explicitly theorized that the level of service had anything to do with their expectation of a tip, fwiw

k3v, you got part of that right. the reason you tip is because waiters work shitty jobs (like a bunch of other people in different parts of the service industry) and are paid below the minimum wage, legally. you tip them 20% no matter what, because america's shifted the burden of compensating them for their labor on to you, and not the restaurant. you always tip them 20%, no matter what, because there is no correlation between the amount of money you give them and the 'service' you receive. simple as that. stop thinking that you're allowed to stiff them because you thought they ignored you or didn't wash their hands or w/e. under no circumstances are you allowed to not tip them 20%. none.

i also never explicitly theorized that the level of service had anything to do with their expectation of a tip, fwiw

― druhilla (k3vin k.), Sunday, September 22, 2013 3:05 PM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark

cool, there must have been some other reason you skimped on the tip then

do you tip above what u consider the correction for shitty job with no bennies so that you can still make a point by docking 10% without being a dick?

i'd think most ppl who know enough about the tipping system to be critical of it are good tippers? "well i know how horrible the tipping system is for pretty much everyone, so i'm going to protest by not giving you any money"

altho there are definitely some assholes who do that

"well i know how horrible the tipping system is for pretty much everyone, so i'm going to protest by not giving you any money"

that may not make sense to you and me, but that's really how some folks operate. it's this kind of attitude: "you may be suffering for want of a tip now, kind waiter, but trust me, it is for your own good. the system needs changing and you have to start somewhere - my not tipping you could spark a revolution that leads to a better living wage for you and your ilk! plus I get to keep five more dollars in my pocket."

> america's shifted the burden of compensating them for
> their labor on to you, and not the restaurant.

i've never understood this argument well. i mean, yes, it is true in a literal sense, but it is is also slightly misleading. don't restaurant revenues come out of the customers pockets? if no one eats at a restaurant there is no money to pay wages.

cool, there must have been some other reason you skimped on the tip then

― 乒乓, Sunday, September 22, 2013 3:06 PM (47 seconds ago)

no, that actually was the reason. i think in america waitstaff have a pretty good idea that for a lot of customers the tip will be tied to their perceived service, obviously for better or worse. for me personally i'm not going to tip you less because you suck at your job, but i will (in theory) tip you less, but still a fair amount, if you suck at your job and don't own up to it. i guess we disagree that tipping one dude 10-15% one time for being exceptionally shitty is poor form. that's fine. i'm a smart guy, i understand the point you're trying to make and more or less agree with where you're coming from. we just disagree on a minor point.

what i was referring to in the post you just quoted was that i didn't necessarily think the service i got in thailand was any worse because the staff didn't have the tip incentive, i'm not sure that extrapolation is valid. there wasn't necessarily a "point" to my thailand tangent other than to highlight the fact that it further strengthened my patience in the face of bad service, because in my admittedly subjective experience, the service over there was slower. wasn't mad at anyone about it, we just thought it was funny. what were we gonna do, yell at them about it? had nothing to do w/ the tipping conversation really

i ended up giving her about a month's pay when i left anyway

― druhilla (k3vin k.), Sunday, 22 September 2013 19:33 (50 minutes ago)

http://i.imgur.com/ED9eRuO.gif

do you tip above what u consider the correction for shitty job with no bennies so that you can still make a point by docking 10% without being a dick?

― flopson, Sunday, September 22, 2013 3:10 PM (13 minutes ago)

i guess i do? i know if you ask workers they'll tell you anything less than 20% sucks, which is why i never do it, but tipping can be expensive, we in a recession, and i'm sure most people think 15% is standard. so if i were to (again theoretically) tip 10-15% one time, i'd imagine the reaction would be more along the lines of "dammit, this dude is cheap, but i've had 20 worse tips this week tbh" rather than "this one tip has seriously threatened my ability to feed my children/pay off my loans"

lol nakh

what i was referring to in the post you just quoted was that i didn't necessarily think the service i got in thailand was any worse because the staff didn't have the tip incentive, i'm not sure that extrapolation is valid. there wasn't necessarily a "point" to my thailand tangent other than to highlight the fact that it further strengthened my patience in the face of bad service, because in my admittedly subjective experience, the service over there was slower. wasn't mad at anyone about it, we just thought it was funny. what were we gonna do, yell at them about it? had nothing to do w/ the tipping conversation really

― druhilla (k3vin k.), Sunday, September 22, 2013 3:23 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

uh, ok. i'll take you at your word here

am.penurious.sometimes

what a thread

two privileged american children pulling out their dicks and measuring who has more empathy for service employees. god bless ilx.

^ privileged american child who regularly stiffs waitstaff on tips

"stiffs"

uh, ok. i'll take you at your word here

― 乒乓, Sunday, September 22, 2013 3:31 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh cmon bro it's the internet, why assume good faith when there's conjecture to be grafted onto a larger point you wish to make

"under no circumstances are you allowed to not tip them 20%. none."

this is simply not true. furthermore, your absolutist rule is well, well outside of the mainstream of American tipping culture. rude waiters or servers are not entitled to one red cent. if someone can't make a living wage waiting because they are too rude to qualify for tips, they need to find another job where they don't deal directly with the public.

this isn't singling out tipped employees for abuse. globally ALL workers who deal with the public face fiscal penalties for rudeness to customers - usually in the form of customer complaints, having raises or promotions withheld or losing their jobs. tipped employees are in a unique situation where they face immediate censure for poor service, but in the long run non-tipped employees also have financial incentives to behave politely.

i just don't understand why people think getting rid of tipping and raising wages change anything in terms of what people are making doing these jobs. the same behaviors or attitudes that lead to less tips also lead to people getting canned repeatedly from their jobs. and the higher the minimum wage is the more careful employers are about hiring and the more reluctant they are to hire people who have been fired multiple times from jobs.

and for the record i can't think of one instance where i haven't tipped at a restaurant or similar establishment, but if i was ever subject to some of the horror stories i have heard, i would feel fully justified in cutting my tip or not tipping.

shut up dude

― flopson, Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:56 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nah bro, you can eat a dicc

I'd imagine real wages would rise on the low end and decrease on the high end if tipping were eliminated, but that would need to be accompanied by tax credits to account for unclaimed tips.

i wouldn't do anything about it, service is service is service and one shouldn't feel entitled to good service, it's just something you subject yourself to when you eat at a sit down restaurant. when you tie the perceived quality of service to the amount of money you leave, you start getting into these issues of control using money and everything just starts to feel gross.

― 乒乓

but i mean this is complete nonsense

you start getting into these issues of control using money and everything just starts to feel gross

this is a horrible analysis of tipping but a great description of capitalism

Love these threads so much as a Brit.

there are places that are famous for their deliberately contemptuous service but which are still loved; cf. the entire city of paris, also there's a seafood place in boston that i can't remember the name of? they literally throw your napkin at you when you sit down. there is something to the idea of going with the flow. it can feel tremendous to let go of the idea that your food needs to come quickly; i believe in some places this is called "relaxing"

Last big meal out was with 8+ diners and the place gave us really grudging service all night - insisting that we only had a two-hour 'slot' for our meal when that would end 30 minutes before the kitchen closed, then wasting a lot of that time by not returning for 15-20 minutes to take our drinks order. Because of the size of our group, there was no way we could adjust tip for attitude (big groups get a mandatory service charge) without involving the manager. It felt arbitrary because the host/person who booked it swears the restaurant failed to mention anything about meal timings when he arranged it.

cf. the entire city of paris

otm

dmac, come fight me

the reason you tip is because waiters work shitty jobs (like a bunch of other people in different parts of the service industry) and are paid below the minimum wage, legally.

not in San Francisco. Minimum wage is $10.55/hr - tipped employees or not

If you would only grace ilf with yr presence youd know why im indisposed and have a gang over, tomorrow maybe

reading a tipping thread while having the gang over, i sympathize