yeah, I can't work out the rubric here:
OLD?
LONG?
FORMALLY COMPLEX?
EMOTIONALLY DRAINING/TOUGH?
OPAQUE STYLE?
seems like a funky swirl of all of these qualities
― the tune was space, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 05:07 (ten years ago) link
I'd say the texts with the highest attrition rate on the list are either Proust or Spenser- the ratio of people who start to people who finish is not so good for them.
― the tune was space, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 05:09 (ten years ago) link
i think finnegans wake fares worse than proust in that regard
― Treeship, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 05:26 (ten years ago) link
There is an audiobook of J R – it's unabridged, 37 hours, came out a few years ago. Was on iTunes, but doesn't seem to be there anymore.
― with hidden noise, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 06:16 (ten years ago) link
Why's Pet Sematary on here?
― An Android Pug of Some Kind? (kingfish), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 06:20 (ten years ago) link
Xp there's an unabridged audiobook of the tunnel too, read by gass himself!
― you can get fuckstab anywhere in london (wins), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 06:41 (ten years ago) link
not dignifying this stupid fucking list with a vote, up yours Flavorwire
― . (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 06:51 (ten years ago) link
the second half of "notes from underground" is very emotionally difficult.
pretty sure the book is intentionally funny as fuck
― . (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 06:57 (ten years ago) link
FD was funny a lot of the time!
― you can get fuckstab anywhere in london (wins), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 06:58 (ten years ago) link
well exactly
― . (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 06:59 (ten years ago) link
the first half of the book is funny and bleak and jarringly modern for the year it was written. the second half -- where he is cruel to the prostitute and the reader is able to really feel, not just see, what it's like to be the underground man and truly hate themselves -- isn't funny anymore, in my view.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 07:16 (ten years ago) link
i mean, i can see how the wretchedness of it is all has the structure of humor or whatever, but i don't think "funny" is a good word to describe it. goes without saying that i love that book.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 07:18 (ten years ago) link
the parts where he is still with his "friends," sabotaging their night, is funny
― Treeship, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 07:20 (ten years ago) link
I bought one of those horrible plastic trash cans from target
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 07:35 (ten years ago) link
with the lid that pops up when you press the button
and the button broke so the lid is just up
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 07:36 (ten years ago) link
the button broke within a week
I weigh the trash can lid down with tristram shandy
this is the second shitty plastic target trash can this has happened to
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 07:37 (ten years ago) link
morelike nightsoil
― buzza, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 08:02 (ten years ago) link
Infinite jest and to a greater extent underworld are not remotely difficult reads. They're just long.
― tell it to my arse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 08:09 (ten years ago) link
"the year of magical thinking" is a deliberately straightforward and relatable account of the grieving process
― Treeship, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 08:19 (ten years ago) link
Treeship, have you ever read 'The Double' by Dostoyevsky? It is also very funny/excruciating re. the subject of self-loathing.
― also known as Princess Chunk and Captain Chunk, real name: Powder (soref), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 09:37 (ten years ago) link
When I first read Dostoyevsky I was so surprised by how funny it was, I had always known him as a shorthand for difficult, heavy going literature, but the books are very readable, funny, lots of dramatic incident.
― also known as Princess Chunk and Captain Chunk, real name: Powder (soref), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 09:45 (ten years ago) link
yeah, Dostoyevsky's not really heavy going, he's super readable - the difficulty of the books arises purely from the awfulness of all of his people.
― c sharp major, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 10:21 (ten years ago) link
practically every dostoyevsky novel i have read i have read at breakneck speed, mostly because if i stop to think i will throw the book against the wall in rage at these terrible people constantly being terrible to one another.
― c sharp major, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 10:26 (ten years ago) link
No Beckett?
Every time anyone mentions Thomas Bernhard on ilx he always seems like the exact kind of writer I love. But he's never in any libraries or bookstores, why is that?
I just bought one of his books... from a bookstore! I've only read on of his book but I didn't find it difficult to read at all.
― Thomas K Amphong (Tom D.), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 10:40 (ten years ago) link
I am trying to be generous towards this list (exploit the dismal cult of difficult literature to recommend some odd books, decent rhetorical move imo) but it turns out I am voting for "Probably the greatest and most difficult satire by one of the world’s most storied satirists." Sharp blurb, flavorwire!
― woof, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 11:05 (ten years ago) link
I recently read the village of stepanchikovo, Dostoyevsky's only foray into straight-ahead comedy afaik. It's a lot of fun but a)pretty dark and b) not as funny as devils &c
― you can get fuckstab anywhere in london (wins), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 11:12 (ten years ago) link
gotta be Proust or Faulkner
Proust it will be ftw
― nostormo, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 11:24 (ten years ago) link
where is The Man Without Qualities?
no ulysses
― midwife christless (darraghmac), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 11:42 (ten years ago) link
?
Trainspotting, Irvine WelshPet Sematary, Stephen King
joke inclusions, as is silmarillion
― midwife christless (darraghmac), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 11:43 (ten years ago) link
the silmarillion is way better than lots of stuff on that list. easy to knock due to the hobbit's and the lord of the rings' ubiquity but up there with the fairie queene and the canterbury tales as extraordinary mythopoeic invention. not gonna defend trainspotting or pet semetary's inclusions except to say both are rad and too bad haters gotta hate
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 11:58 (ten years ago) link
Tale of a Tub isn't a difficult satire so much as Swift realises halfway thru that he hates everything
― . (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 13:03 (ten years ago) link
DHALGREN
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 14:26 (ten years ago) link
i haven't read most of these though
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 14:27 (ten years ago) link
yeah the number of titles on this list which are in my opinion extremely readable and user friendly kinda belies the point
I mean all lists are corny clickbait, so that's got to be a given at this point, but I would learn something from, say, a list of the top 50 longest books, in order, that I'm not learning from this list because of its incoherence
but I like talking about books!
when I was in lol-college I wrote an undergrad paper about the unreadability of "Finnegan's Wake" with reference to Wittgenstein on private language- I have vague memories of my pained bleating about the work's resistance to being read as the asymptotic approach towards the conceptually impossible notion of a private language- like, we can't have a private language, but if we could, it would sound a lot like FW- probably just my attempt at a highfalutin justification for not being able to read the damn thing
― the tune was space, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 14:52 (ten years ago) link
nb qualmsley- i enjoyed all three but wtf at their placement on a list like this
― midwife christless (darraghmac), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 14:54 (ten years ago) link
Difficulty in constantly flipping back-and-forth from IJ's main text to endnotes shouldn't be underestimated, especially if one hand is busy smoking.
Kilopage books are heavy
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 15:14 (ten years ago) link
yea i presume thats what theyre getting @ w house of leaves also. like rotating the book around or w/e. cuz like esp the lude's (that's his name right?) journal part are really simplistic/easy 2 read
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
xps
I feel like the dominance of the Englishish grammar & hyperreferentiality stop FW being a private language quite, like it's uninward in lots of ways, always arguing and trying to tell stories (doing homework!). But I suppose it's ultimately arguing with itself & trying to explain itself to itself, so maybe that collapse of interior/exterior is symptom of what you're saying. Reading it now funnily enough, love it.
― woof, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
have read 2 of these, another 5 or so on the reading list. no compunction about voting GR though. if anything on here comes close to matching it then it'll have done fairly well
― kaputtinabox (imago), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 15:41 (ten years ago) link
the 20c's cute and all but i voted moby-dick obv
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
FW would be literally unreadable if it were a private language - it's readable precisely because it's engaged in a multitude of other discourses. Derrida made a similar point about translation being possible because there was meaning that wasn't reducible simply to a particular language's expression iirc
― . (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 15:55 (ten years ago) link
I'm always astounded Eliot liked Nightwood enough to write a preface.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
i mean obv what makes a certain kind of reading of FW difficult or perhaps impossible is that it's oversaturated in other discourses but this is exactly the opposite of being a private language i think
― . (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
which brings me (by a commodius etc) to the point that "a TOUGH read" is only TOUGH if you think reading is one particular think. which in literature especially it surely isn't
― . (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 16:00 (ten years ago) link
yes FW def forces that point, single or traditional reading habits break against it. I think it's sometimes seen as a book for the academy when standard academic tight-interpretative, lock-down-the-metaphors, write-a-paper approaches run out or off against it - seems like more space for the enthusiast, the amateur, the cheerful crank in there.
― woof, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 16:29 (ten years ago) link