Is this anti-semitism?

this game crusader kings 2 has been free on steam this week and i've been playing a little. there are different plots you can execute by spending prestige (along the lines of 'visit a holy site,' 'invite a nobel to court,' etc) and two of them are 'borrow money from the jews' and 'expel the jews,' executing both of which can net you a one-time quick influx of like 5,000 /currency/. i don't have any problem w/ its inclusion in a game committed to accurately depicting the messy religious politics of like 15th century europe (i mean, it's a game about the crusades so i don't think sensitivity should be emphasized), but i do feel a little weird about a mechanic that can net u the biggest immediate currency gain in the game, therefore almost always making it - on a gamey level - the right move.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/us/debate-on-a-jewish-student-at-ucla.html

LOS ANGELES — It seemed like routine business for the student council at the University of California, Los Angeles: confirming the nomination of Rachel Beyda, a second-year economics major who wants to be a lawyer someday, to the council’s Judicial Board.

Until it came time for questions.

“Given that you are a Jewish student and very active in the Jewish community,” Fabienne Roth, a member of the Undergraduate Students Association Council, began, looking at Ms. Beyda at the other end of the room, “how do you see yourself being able to maintain an unbiased view?”

For the next 40 minutes, after Ms. Beyda was dispatched from the room, the council tangled in a debate about whether her faith and affiliation with Jewish organizations, including her sorority and Hillel, a popular student group, meant she would be biased in dealing with sensitive governance questions that come before the board, which is the campus equivalent of the Supreme Court.

The discussion, recorded in written minutes and captured on video, seemed to echo the kind of questions, prejudices and tropes — particularly about divided loyalties — that have plagued Jews across the globe for centuries, students and Jewish leaders said.

The council, in a meeting that took place on Feb. 10, voted first to reject Ms. Beyda’s nomination, with four members against her. Then, at the prodding of a faculty adviser there who pointed out that belonging to Jewish organizations was not a conflict of interest, the students revisited the question and unanimously put her on the board.

holy shit

and yes, that is anti-semitism, for those wondering.

i remember arab (muslim and christian) students getting a similar treatment (questioning their ability to make decisions without "bias") when i was in school. it was awful then, and it's awful now.

and... a bunch of disgusting comments on that article prove is point, e.g.

Unfortunately, these students are paying the price for Israel's aggression again Palestine and Palestinians. While the Baby Boomer generation more or less acquiesced in the human rights violations and war crimes committed by Israel in its quest to annihilate the Palestinian people, we don't. We are more aware of Israel's actions and therefore it is not unreasonable to question her. It is regrettable but the blame belongs with Israel, not the student. But she pays the price.

imagine saying that US muslims "pay the price" for ISIS violence with harrassment. oh wait, plenty of people—on the right-wing—would say something like that. pot, meet kettle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBJXtTIbDTo

awwww

I was going to ask what kind of decisions a student organization might possibly have to make that being Jewish could possibly bias them but then I remembered that these fucking morons think that an important part of college is divesting from Israel

the comments (from all sides) on all the articles about this UCLA thing make me despair. are people really that knee-jerk and stupid?

(note to self: stop reading comments on news articles)

"(from all sides)" wouldn't want to be accused of bias yrself ;)

I think of course a person active in Hillel might possibly have a "bias" about Israel, but so might a person in a Muslim student org, or any other student for that matter. Maybe I don't understand what a university student council judicial committee does, but I don't really understand what a position on Israel would have to do with anything.

but then I remembered that these fucking morons think that an important part of college is divesting from Israel

This, and the academic boycotts in general (BDS movement), are imo one of the more depressing phenomena in academia today.

Not just in academia but the arts:

http://news.artnet.com/art-world/jeremy-deller-ed-atkins-and-hundreds-of-uk-artists-support-cultural-boycott-of-israel-256543/

But what's being discussed above (re nytimes article linked by amateurist) is of course worse than that (not discriminating against "Israel," but an American Jewish student in an American university).

xp right that's the thing. even if she was a member of the ZOA, one of the requirements for holding student office in a California public research university should not be being unbiased on Israel. are these kids so bored that they have no actual classes to study for and actual on-campus issues to organize about?

Well, Israel/Palestine is the defining issue of our times.

Or the end times, depending.

PS I have no problem with individually chosen boycotts.

I have a problem with academics voting for institutional boycotts (affecting everyone in a university or organization, whether they agree or not).

lol @ this: "It should be pointed out that the four students who opposed Ms. Beyda were Fabienne Roth, from Switzerland, Negeen Sadeghi-Movahed, an Iranian-American, Manjot Singh, a Sikh, and Sofia Moreno Haq, a member of the Muslim Student Association."

Hey, I don't want to make assumptions. But I will say I suspect her Swiss nationality may be impairing her impartiality. They should kick her out.

"Ms. Roth, if the U.S. went to war with Switzerland ... what side would you be on?"

I think of course a person active in Hillel might possibly have a "bias" about Israel, but so might a person in a Muslim student org, or any other student for that matter. Maybe I don't understand what a university student council judicial committee does, but I don't really understand what a position on Israel would have to do with anything.

― five six and (man alive), Friday, 6 March 2015 15:38 (33 minutes ago) Permalink

issues related to BDS have previously come up before the student judicial board. recently, some student gov't leaders were given all-expenses-paid trips to israel by AJC and ADL, which in the former case was designed explicitly for American-Jewish campus leaders to help fight BDS efforts. a petition was filed (by members of a pro-Palestine student org) with the judicial board saying that the two Jewish student gov't leaders had violated the ethics rules concerning student gov't by accepting these free trips. i actually think they may have had a point (note: it helps if you read UCLA's ethical code for student gov't).

so that issue was almost certainly lurking in the BG -- unstated -- in this whole current issue. that doesn't make the line of questioning any less disgusting. having opinions—much less being of a certain religious/ethnic group—can't possibly be a disqualification for the student judicial board. if so, it would be a board with no members.

disgusted by the number of folks online who want to explain away what seems to me a textbook case of anti-semitism, admittedly among people who would be loathe to identify as anti-semites (but who would?).

"roth" is often a jewish name; it's very possible that student was jewish. doesn't make it any better.

"having opinions—much less being of a certain religious/ethnic group—can't possibly be a disqualification for the student judicial board" <<<< a lot of the defenses seem to miss this point. even if she was pro-Israel, having a political opinion that differs from the majority opinion cannot be a disqualification for a judicial board esp on an issue that has 0% to do w/ the life of a UCLA student.

well, like i mention above, i'm sure that the free-Israel-trip issue, which /had/ come up before the student judicial board, was in the back of the members' minds. so in a broad sense, the issue of BDS is "relevant" to the judicial board. but the idea that she could not impartially judge a possible ethics violation b/c of her ethic background/group affiliation is (we all seem to agree) gross, just as it would be gross if they had questioned a member of a pro-Palestine group whether her Arab or Muslim identity would get in the way of her ability to adjudicate impartially.

"roth" is often a jewish name; it's very possible that student was jewish. doesn't make it any better.

Are there many Jews in Switzerland? I know plenty money/gold/artworks stolen from Jews has ended up in Switzerland over the years.

I think it's important to note that they wouldn't have asked it of a Palestinian student since the phenomenon of Israel criticism in universities is often, as in the rest of the world, more or less a pretext for antisemitism.

^ well yeah exactly

even if she was pro-Israel, having a political opinion that differs from the majority opinion cannot be a disqualification for a judicial board esp

before i type my mealymouthed but but but, yes of course this is antisemitism. it's beyond clear that they thought her being a jew was a disqualification.

but really it depends on the degree of "difference from the majority opinion." we would not expect a white nationalist or even an active MRA type dude to be particularly fair in dealing with student disputes. there are people that "we all" could agree should not be in a position of judgment over others. but the lines around that category get pretty fuzzy.

if your view of israel is that it's a racist settler state then what other conclusion can you draw?
Sadeghi-Movahed, Singh, and Haq (and... Roth?) didn't think Beyda would be fair in judging people such as themselves (if you want to extend any generosity to them at all). just as they were unfair in judging Beyda in the same turn.

there's a kind of depressing zero-sum quality to these kinds of jewish-muslim disputes that my beloved deracinated liberalism is powerless to resolve.

er xps, the "exatly" was to amateurist

there's a kind of depressing zero-sum quality to these kinds of jewish-muslim disputes that my beloved deracinated liberalism is powerless to resolve.

― goole, Friday, March 6, 2015 12:01 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. I actually think the anti-semitism here is secondary to a battle for political control over campuses, although there is an anti-semitic element to it. It's bullshit to call it a battle against "bias" though, it's just a battle to make one bias vs another be the default.

I guess to the extent that I have a *bias* on account of being Jewish, I'd rather not see people disqualified from student governing bodies merely for potentially having the wrong position on Israel, even inasmuch as I understand how that position might offend a Muslim student. I will always have a certain Israel "bias" in the sense that the historical reasons for its founding are very personal to me, regardless of what I think of the results of that founding. And as much as I condemn Israel, I refuse any situation that baits me into the "condemn Israel on our terms OR ELSE" scenario.

paul, from wikipedia:

ccording to the 2000 census, the Jewish population of Switzerland was at 17,914 (0.2% of the total population).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_%28surname%29

it is a common name in Scotland

Uh, no it isn't!

imagine saying that US muslims "pay the price" for ISIS violence with harrassment. oh wait, plenty of people—on the right-wing—would say something like that. pot, meet kettle.

― he quipped with heat (amateurist), Thursday, March 5, 2015 8:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is the sort of thing that has me coming to the position that Islamophobia and anti-Semitism (in the US) are m/l two sides of the same oppressive coin, with this fixation on the inscrutable motives of these others and holding the collective accountable for the crimes of a few, often violently and openly.

and if Muslims and Jews are subjecting one another to such prejudices in this country then there's a gap to be bridged.

(I like to imagine that there's conversations to be had about the relationships between Muslims and Jews as immigrant & diasporic peoples in the West that have nothing to do with Israel, it's a nice dream isn't it?)

those conversations do happen! but they don't make the news.

been awhile since I've met/made any immigrant muslim friends but for awhile I had a coworker who was married to yemeni immigrant and I loved hanging out w that guy at work functions, v smart, v interesting cat. those conversations can be had! but it's hard and rare.

(we did not make the news)

I'd actually attribute a lot of the evolution of my views on Israel to my teenaged friendship with a single Palestinian dude. I think there is a lot to be said for having a real person in front of you who seems similar to you in every way except views on Israel (or anything) to make you think that there might be non-crazy reasons to have different views on Israel (or any other subject) from your own.

I mean up until that point I was pretty much spouting echo-chambered talking points. The fact that he was cool and not hateful and yet had totally reasonable responses to a lot of my talking points started the process of me understanding that some of them were just talking points.

"up until that point" being only up until age 13, to be fair, not like I was all that politically sophisticated yet.

i grew up in a milieu that included a lot of jews (i'm one of them) along with a bunch of palestinian intellectuals, for what that's worth.

(this is in the US, not the middle east.)

I want to express my frustration with my right-wing friends on Facebook who are uncritically posting articles about how muslims are bottling and selling the blood of Christians to drink. It is utterly beyond me how anyone can be aware of the long history and current liveliness of anti-Semitism (and these guys, like me, are) and simultaneously take "they drink Christian blood!" as a credible accusation.

In fact I feel like it's borderline anti-Semitic to participate in the perpetuation of the idea that drinking Christian blood for fun and profit is a thing that actually exists in the word.

i have never seen this - that's insane!

my FB friends in this vein like to source "JewsNews" for material of this kind -- feel free to go there yourself, I'm scared to.

in this vein
hah

http://i.imgur.com/hF0iv4W.png

that's news to me