David Lynch - Classic or Dud

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Taking on Dune was a crazy idea and the (heavily edited) film is riddled with flaws. Nonetheless it is a work of beauty, perhaps all the more loveable for it's faults. The heart plug scene is unforgettable cinema, Sting is absurd, the voice overs wonderfully bizarre, the visualisation of Frank H's ideas meticulous and inventive... I think it's a brilliant, sprawling mash up of a movie, amazing to look at and absolutely crammed with diverting details.

Err, Lynch incidentally is brain-crushingly classic.

Alex K (Alex K), Thursday, 30 October 2003 13:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

i'd love to see at least some of the fwwm stuff restored or at least assembled if it can't be edited in. the full script was wonderous (I'm sure it's still around on the web somewhere). FWWM gets a bad rap, it's a zany circus of a film with some excellent scenes (the Pink Room nightclub scene, the final shots in the black lodge, the entire opening sequence with Chris Isaak and Keifer).

anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Thursday, 30 October 2003 17:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

I used to have some sort of movie-tie-in picture book of Dune when I was a kid. Imagine, if you will, some poor hack writer trying to distill the plot to a few short paragraphs per half and hour. Completely incomprehensible

There's a much better book out there if you can find it at all -- The Making of Dune by Ed Naha. He was hired to essentially hang around on site during the entire length of filming and write a book about it all and did a fantastic job, I thought. While essentially uncritical about the final product itself, it actually doesn't talk about that so much as just the filming itself. Also laden with tons of photos.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Classic for pretty much everything he's made.

Here's ten, in order of "classicness":

1. Mulholland Drive
2. Eraserhead
3. Blue Velvet
4. Wild at Heart
5. Elephant Man
6. Twin Peaks
7. The Straight Story
8. Dune
9. Fire Walk with Me
10. Lost Highway

David A. (Davant), Thursday, 30 October 2003 23:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

i read the full script for FWWM and thought it was dumbly literal, and was mostly glad it had been chopped to bits for the final product.

amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

The order in which i like them - not much to do with "classicsness" - wild at heart is the only one i actively dislike so it's not on there.

1. Mulholland Drive
2. Blue Velvet
3. Eraserhead
4. Elephant Man
5. Lost Highway
6. Fire Walk with Me
7. Twin Peaks
8. Dune
9.The Straight Story

jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

Umm. This movie is two years old. Why are we speculating on its award chances?

sorry, jaymc, my aside has troubled you, AND i used the wrong tense in one sentence!
and it revived a discussion, how about that ?
but huh ?, you haven't commented on Princess Anne and the BAFTAs, which was what i was getting at. Or anything else beyond the semantics of said paragraph. What do YOU THINK ?

george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 31 October 2003 16:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

eleven months pass...
Wild At Heart is fantastic - reading the book might help if you don't get the movie

I'm not sure I'll ever get round reading the book so could somebody please summarize what it adds to the movie?

Baaderonixxx le Jeune (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 15:20 (twenty years ago) link

words

amateur!!st, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 16:35 (twenty years ago) link

If George Gosset cares a year later, I apologize for being snarky. I thought maybe you didn't realize that Mulholland Drive wouldn't be eligible for a BAFTA in 2003, since it came out in 2001 (maybe 2002 in the UK, I'm not sure).

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 16:38 (twenty years ago) link

Region 1 Wild at Heart DVD is finally coming in December!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 16:49 (twenty years ago) link

what does lynch mean by 'the eye of the duck'?

cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 7 November 2004 13:09 (twenty years ago) link

Mark Cousins: I don't know if you know the films of Ozu the Japanese, but this
is the Ozu scene in this film. In some interviews I've read, you've
used this phrase, the `eye of the duck' scene.

David Lynch: Well, you know, nature can teach us a lot of things, and there's
something about, in painting, you're working within a certain shaped
canvas and there's many things that you, you know, one does
intuitively, to move the eye, you know, there's repetition of shape,
there's repetition of colour, but when you start looking at a duck,
you see your eye is moving in a certain way, and you see textures and
colours and shapes and you start wondering about a duck, what it can
teach us about, you know, any kind of abstract, you know, painting, or
proportions or even sequences, scenes, and it always is interesting
that the eye is in the perfect place - if you move it to the body, it
would get lost, if you move to the leg or the beak, it's two, kind of,
fast areas competing, even though the eye is the fastest, it's the
little jewel.

Alba (Alba), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:07 (twenty years ago) link

; )

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:08 (twenty years ago) link

I wonder if Mark Cousins actually said "Ozu The Japanese".

Alba (Alba), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:09 (twenty years ago) link

thanks alba. I have watched that cousins interview before and felt that cousins completely misrepresented lynch's silly little fantastic idea by asking him lynch what he thought were 'the eye of the duck' scenes in each of his movies. I always thought of it as a approach to the composition of the scene, pretty much how lynch explains it really, but also as a more generalised way of looking at things, through another lens, which could be something so silly as a duck eye. what do you think about the idea? like it?

cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago) link

MC: Fast meaning what?

DL: Well, there's slow and fast. An empty room is a certain speed,
and a person standing there is another speed, and that proportion is,
you know, can be beautiful, if the room is a 2 and the person is a 7.
I think a person is around a 7; fire and electricity can go up to a 9,
for instance, or really intricately designed, you know, decorative
room is pretty disturbing, sometimes - it's too fast. But then if you
put something slow in it, it could work beautifully. A busy room and
a person, they fight each other. So...

MC: Is this to do with how fast our eye moves to scan it, to see
what's happening?

DL: It's a relationship thing, I think. Fast and slow areas.

MC: OK. What is the eye of the duck scene in Straight Story?

DL: I haven't thought about it. I have to think about it. I can't
just jump in and think, but I believe every film has the eye of the
duck scene. But, it can fool you. You know, which one it is - it
could be the scene we were talking about, I don't know.

MC: What's the eye of the duck scene in `Blue Velvet'?

DL: I used to know.

MC: Is it the `In Dreams' song.

DL: It's the eye of the duck, that's the eye of the duck, yes, yes.

[clip `in dreams']

MC: And what's the eye of the duck scene in Elephant Man?

DL: (laughs) I used to know.

MC: Is it the scene where he goes to the theatre? Near the end?

DL: No, I think, strangely, the eye of the duck scene is the ending.

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago) link

ozu the scottish.

cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago) link

I used to know.

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:12 (twenty years ago) link

(laughs)

cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:12 (twenty years ago) link

I fucking love that concept.

Andrew (enneff), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:13 (twenty years ago) link

A duck is one of the most beautiful animals.  If you study a duck, you'll see certain things: the bill is a certain texture and a certain length; the head is a certain shape; the texture of the bill is very smooth and it has quite precise detail and reminds you somewhat of the legs (the legs are a little more rubbery).  The body is big, softer, and the texture isn't so detailed.  The key to the whole duck is the eye and where it is placed.  It's like a little jewel.  It's so perfectly placed to show off a jewel - right in the middle of the head, next to this S-curve with the bill sitting out in front, but with enough distance so that the eye is very well secluded and set out.  When you're working on a film, a lot of times you can get the bill and the legs and the body and everything, but this eye of the duck is a certain scene, this jewel, that if it's there, it's absolutely beautiful.  It's just fantastic.

- Lynch the American

Alba (Alba), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:14 (twenty years ago) link

what speed are you?

cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:14 (twenty years ago) link

The fast.

http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/stam/suomi/stam/pics/duck_rabbit.gif

Alba (Alba), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:17 (twenty years ago) link

feet of the duck.

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:18 (twenty years ago) link

"eye of the duck" is a survivor/rick dees mashup no?

amateur!!st, Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:20 (twenty years ago) link

I'm going out to look at ducks.

cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:20 (twenty years ago) link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/830000/images/_830435_ducksap300.jpg

Alba (Alba), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:21 (twenty years ago) link

it's when you look at a duck, on water, and you look at where its body meets the water and what a meeting it is and the complete contrasts of texture and consistency--the light but layered and warm and soft and complexity with the heavy but fluid and cold and shiny and dark and reflective but it is the reflectiveness that helps to conceal and reveal a wonder. when you can look at a drawing, of the frame, of a cube and are able to see it in, at least, two ways and can almost pop, between one and the other--this is what, on a good day, is the wonder, of a duck, on water. you look at the duck, floating or swimming or being a duck, and you see this, often, fat and calm, above-water entity. if you look at the meeting, that we have discussed, and the light is appropriate, you will see a reflection of the fat and calm and of all of the attributes of the duck's composition, that we have discussed, but under a veil of all of the attributes of the water, that we have discussed. now, if the light is very appropriate and you have an angle, that is nice, you can see this--but, then, by looking, for a moment, in the right way, you can look through the water, like you had forgotten you could, to see the duck's thin legs, dangling from its floating mass. they are not, however, always dangling, and the viewer can be rewarded with some more final contrasts--the speed, of the little legs, with the calmness, of the floating mass--the duck's little legs, churning away with, often, not a flicker of movement, within the duck's floating mass.

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:38 (twenty years ago) link

david lynch is kind of nutty isn't he?

amateur!!st, Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:47 (twenty years ago) link

ilx is so good sometimes.

(x-post)

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:52 (twenty years ago) link

david lynch is kind of nutty isn't he?

No, but maybe a little daffy.

Mooro (Mooro), Sunday, 7 November 2004 14:54 (twenty years ago) link

: )

cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 7 November 2004 17:38 (twenty years ago) link

RJG, is that a lunch quote or your own spin on things?

"Lynch on Lynch" is one of the most entertaining books i have ever read.

jed_ (jed), Sunday, 7 November 2004 18:12 (twenty years ago) link

oh, yeah, I wrote that.

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 7 November 2004 18:34 (twenty years ago) link

you're daffy.

jed_ (jed), Sunday, 7 November 2004 18:35 (twenty years ago) link

oh, yeah, I read that.

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 7 November 2004 18:37 (twenty years ago) link

two months pass...
so many amazing things about 'blue velvet'

lynch's nuanced use of the widescreen frame above all.... his knowing evocations of the heyday of 'scope and the accompanying emotional registers

still i think it's less than the sum of its parts somehow, i'm never too interested in rewatching the whole thing

that's a problem w/lynch

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 7 January 2005 05:53 (nineteen years ago) link

i have the same birthday as lynch. and fellini. so, classic.

cutty (mcutt), Friday, 7 January 2005 05:57 (nineteen years ago) link

I can watch Wild At Heart over and over.

.adam (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 January 2005 06:14 (nineteen years ago) link

i lent my copy of wild at heart to a visiting film prof in college and the motherfucker never gave it back.

g--ff (gcannon), Friday, 7 January 2005 06:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I think it just got a DVD release!

.adam (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 January 2005 06:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Do you think David Lynch likes Man Ray?

.adam (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 January 2005 06:28 (nineteen years ago) link

it just got a really nice dvd release and the thing is cheap! it was like $13CAD at the store. why didn't i buy it again? also blue velvet is available for $10CAD now.

i am interested in the "business end" of motion picture filmmaking

s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 7 January 2005 07:02 (nineteen years ago) link

i am interested in the "business end" of motion picture filmmaking

er

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 7 January 2005 07:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I am interesting in the "business end" of Harvey Weinstein's pudgy fist.

.adam (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 January 2005 15:53 (nineteen years ago) link

intesrested

oy!

.adam (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 January 2005 15:53 (nineteen years ago) link

forget it

.adam (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 January 2005 15:54 (nineteen years ago) link

You're always very interesting, Adam, no matter where you lay your hat. Or whatever you lay.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 January 2005 15:54 (nineteen years ago) link

four months pass...
From Variety:

Lynch invades an 'Empire'
Digital pic details a mystery

By ADAM DAWTREY
David Lynch is making a new movie with StudioCanal. In fact, he's already been shooting it under the radar for two years.

Titled "INLAND EMPIRE" (in capitals, though Lynch doesn't explain why), it stars Laura Dern, along with Justin Theroux, Harry Dean Stanton, Jeremy Irons and a host of others Lynch won't specify.

In fact, there's still very little the enigmatic Lynch is comfortable to reveal about the movie.

"It's about a woman in trouble, and it's a mystery, and that's about all I want to say about it," he comments diffidently.

The title refers to the bleak residential area on the edge of the desert near L.A. -- the antithesis of the tony locale of his last movie "Mulholland Drive."

Lynch has shot much of his latest film in Poland with local actors, after making friends with the organizers of the Camerimage festival in Lodz. He's now back shooting in and around Los Angeles.

Even at this relatively advanced stage of production, Lynch is cagey about when it will be finished. But it's understood that StudioCanal is aiming for a world preempreem at Cannes next year.

"Making a film is a beautiful mystery," Lynch says. "You go deep into the wood, and you don't want to come out of that wood, but the time is coming very soon when I will have to."

Lynch has financed the production to date from his own resources, with his wife and longtime artistic collaborator Mary Sweeney producing. The budget is unknown.

StudioCanal, which financed "Mulholland Drive""Mulholland Drive" and "The Straight Story," has come aboard "INLAND EMPIRE" to handle worldwide sales.

Digital convert

What Lynch will reveal -- and indeed, waxes lyrical about -- is the fact that he's shooting the movie on digital video.

"I started working in DV for my Web site, and I fell in love with the medium. It's unbelievable, the freedom and the incredible different possibilities it affords, in shooting and in post-production."

"For me, there's no way back to film. I'm done with it," Lynch says. "I love abstraction. Film is a beautiful medium, but it's very slow and you don't get a chance to try a lot of different things. With DV, you get those chances. And in post-production, if you can think it, you can do it."

DV has clearly given Lynch the freedom from having to clarify his intentions -- to financiers, or even to himself -- before he starts shooting.

"The explaining of things in words is always a huge problem," he confesses.

He characterizes the DV production process as a journey of "huge exploration" to discover what his film will be.

"I'm writing as I go," he says. "I believe in the unity of things. When you have one part, and then a second part that doesn't relate to that first part, it's very curious to find that they do relate after all. It's a most beautiful thing."

He also believes that it produces a different kind of performances from actors. "When you run out of film, you have to stop and reload, and during that time the heat sometimes goes off. But with this medium you can keep that heat, and it builds, and it's beautiful to see."

He says that Dern, in particular, has benefited from this freedom. "She's the most incredible actress. Some people get roles and do their thing, but some have a lot more inside and don't usually get the chance to show it."

As for the quality of the DV image, Lynch says, "It looks different. Some would say it looks bad. But it reminds me of early 35mm, that didn't have that tight grain. When you have a poor image, there's lots more room to dream."

"But I've done tests transferring DV to film, and there are all kinds of controls to dial in the look you want."

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 12 May 2005 20:23 (nineteen years ago) link


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