Star Wars 7 shit talk

how different people treat droids is pretty integral

yeah it's not the deepest thing in the world but like all the stuff about the force in Empire is way more thought-provoking (even just on an imagination level) (but also on an ethical level) than most movies I got into as a kid. Just the idea that Yoda is very strenuously trying to keep Luke from doing what seems to him and to the audience like obviously the heroic thing to do - - - in fact that this kind of zealous, well-intentioned action is what defines the "dark side" that claimed his father... that's super cool. I also, and this is less directly about ethics, but while the Force has been banalized by the prequels and spinoffs, there's still something wonderful about Yoda's new age presentation of it. I mean I wasn't seeing a lot of stuff at age 10 where someone says "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship." That's great! Like you leave the theater with something kind of weird to ponder, and not just CGI exploding at your face.

the rebels obviously have incredible patience and some sort of workplace inclusion policy, only possible explanation for why c3po is kept around

btw the empire has much better style and iconography, as fascists often do

Ultimately the thing that really sets apart Star Wars (the original trilogy) from stuff like Transformers and Marvel is that it has far superior set design, which may seem a minor thing for some people, but makes a world of difference to me personally.

― silverfish, Friday, October 2, 2015 1:10 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is otm. not really into the antiseptic paramilitary world of marvel movies, the good bits of thor aside (and probably guardians of the galaxy, which i didn't see, also aside). have never gotten bored of looking at or listening to star wars (exceptions, finally ruined by commercial ubiquity: never need to hear a lightsaber again, or r2d2) even tho i have gotten bored of thinking about it.

"luminous beings are we, not this crude matter" will be the absolute last line in star wars i come to feel superior to

and the little illustrative pinch he takes of luke!

Yoda being mischievous is sorely missed in the dumb prequels. He can be funny!

it was an ok twist to have him actually be strong in combat but only as a counterpoint to "Wars not make one great"

"Mudhole? Slimy? My home this is!"

he was an instructor of lightsaber combat at the jedi temple!

i like "how you get so big, eating food of this kind"

his disses were so good

his early sets at the Chuckle Hut slayed

Yoda's flat, dull dialogue in the prequels make the scrambled syntax so annoying.

AROUND THE SURVIVORS A PERIMETER CREATE.

dredging the x-wing in empire is still pretty special imo. genuinely stirring moments in blockbuster fx bombast. and then after that, yoda's crowning diss.

also the puppet's facial expression when he thinks for a moment luke might succeed is terrific.

AROUND THE SURVIVORS A PERIMETER CREATE

haha, Yoda is a terrible battlefield commander, all his orders take way too long to say and interpret correctly when the main verb comes way at the end

it's also annoying that they took this occasional linguistic tic of his from the old movies, and then made sure that every single sentence he spoke in the prequels used this structure

"they"

George Lucas and his massive goiter

btw the empire has much better style and iconography, as fascists often do

― μpright mammal (mh), Friday, October 2, 2015

Actually this is a great socratic teachable thing about the series too - who looks tougher, cooler, who has better stuff, and why - I feel like one thing that SW does really well is making the bad guys and the good guys (not nec. just "empire v. rebels" - jabba, the bounty hunters, bespin etc) all have distinct and reasonably thought-out aesthetics, so all the different parties at play look impressive or at least put together in their own right, aside from the cantina extras who are genuinely assembled from spare parts, nobody really looks like they just go thrown together from spare parts. Even though up until Jedi they basically all were.

I mean there's totally some fuckyeahmenswear style tumbl'n waiting to get implemented here
https://botwt.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/hanchew1.jpg

so you haven't seen the "hipsters dress like han solo" memes going around then?

Ultimately the thing that really sets apart Star Wars (the original trilogy) from stuff like Transformers and Marvel is that it has far superior set design, which may seem a minor thing for some people, but makes a world of difference to me personally.

Yeah for real, I'm increasingly thinking it's the design (character and vehicle as well as set) coupled to straightforward but cannily resonant plotting which makes the originals so iconic. The Stormtrooper armour for example has an unfussy elegance you would never ever see in a Transformers movie.

it's the design (character and vehicle as well as set) coupled to straightforward but cannily resonant plotting which makes the originals so iconic.

this is totally it. cuz it sure ain't the dialogue, the direction, the acting, the subtext (there isn't really any), the characters, or anything else that typically makes a film great.

and this is presumably before anybody had to go and write 20 page design documents to help explain the space-naval-architectural ethos and office dress codes of the respective organizations in the universe. somebody just drew some ships and some outfits and tweaked them here and there and then we end up with incredibly iconic things that literally have a higher Q rating than any of the actors involved.

dredging the x-wing in empire is still pretty special imo. genuinely stirring moments in blockbuster fx bombast. and then after that, yoda's crowning diss.

All the Dagoba scenes are incredible. What they did to Yoda in the prequels was a travesty.

I take issue with the direction not being great (at times). The superior aesthetic qualities wouldn't come through or work as well if not for the way they're shot, edited, etc. Probably editing as much as anything (the prequels and special editions do bear that out) but you also can't splice a shot that wasn't ever there.

the subtext (there isn't really any)

droid racism leads directly to the downfall of the empire. if they'd considered droids to be alive they would have detected them on board the escape pod, destroyed it, and lived happily ever after.

Also, sound design better and weirder than anything else out there. Tie Fighters sounded like nothing else, speeder bikes sounded like nothing else, imperial walkers whose audio design complimented and enhanced their story role, etc.

As effed as Phantom Menace was, I so dug how Ben Burtt varied up the engine sounds in the pod race, from what sounds like a V1 to something like a mic'd leafblower fed thru a flange pedal.

droids are a race now?

surely the term should be droidism or something

"We don't serve your kind here" from a joint that allows Rodian bounty hunters free entrance

the inclusiveness of the rebels is pretty clearly the reason they win out in the end. They pretty much take anybody who seems like they give a shit, which makes it seem like they would be easy pickings for imperial double agents, so perhaps there's a hidden side to all this where there's brutal rebel counterintelligence and potential innocents getting wiped out in "accidents" because they couldn't be trusted. Maybe Biggs' death was arranged, you know? Like, isn't that a little convenient that he just happens to ditch Luke for the Empire, then gets disillusioned as a cadet and joins the rebellion, just in time to find himself BEHIND LUKE in the the trench run on Bespin? Aw man I would like to see the SW version of The Departed now, please.

if there's one thing the world doesn't need any more of it's SW fanfiction

brave stance

"Lost a planet, Master Obi-Wan has. How embarrassing. How embarrassing."

Pretty sure that's Yoda's only attempt at humour in the prequels. Padawans must love him.

well, Count Dooku was one of his padawans, so

he did beat the hell out of Dooku in a lightsaber battle (lol) until that damn sith pulled the classic "drop part of the building on your friends while I make a quick exit" move

fuckin' sith

unlike everything in Star Wars, which totally does not defy the laws of physics ever

if you accept that the force is a thing I can allow for some flexibility in the behavior of matter. Whereas transformers are 50 foot tall robots on earth who pretend they're cars.

If you can accept the force then the allspark can't be much of a jump

allspark, did someone say?
http://news.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2010/02/Yoda_1266125789.jpg

this is totally it. cuz it sure ain't the dialogue, the direction, the acting, the subtext (there isn't really any), the characters, or anything else that typically makes a film great.

― Οὖτις, Friday, 2 October 2015 21:20 (Yesterday) Permalink

Not that this could possibly convince you, but I'll go ahead and say it's silly to say there are no worthy characters or performances in these movies. I mean, come on, for all their flaws, there are a number of memorable characters, charismatically performed--Han Solo, Vader, Yoda immediately jump to mind. This is an obvious component of the films' lasting success!

I mean, I've also watched the movies through my adult eyes and realized how creaky some of the dialogue is, how wooden certain performances are, and how they're generally more inert than I remember. But there are reasons beyond awesome set and sound design why it became iconic and, like, Logan's Run and The Black Hole did not.

Not that these movies need my prosaic defense in any way! And I'm totally tired of them too, but when you look at other space opera sci-fi, it seems pretty clear what Star Wars has going for it.

agree! Although I loved The Black Hole as a kid.

not to put something out there that I don't feel like expanding on (much) but...

one of the things that I liked about the OG star wars trilogy had is the sense of infiniteness -- there were all these AWESOME ALIENS in the cantina but none of them had names (at the time), or all the dudes wandering around Bespin or w/e and that gave the illusion that the galaxy went on and on and on and you could never hope to see it all. The idea that there was so much out there in the world that could be seen but not understood or compartmentalized is pretty powerful to a 6 year old who sees the world through that same lens. I never got into the EU stuff for pretty much that reason. Once you start trying to give a name to everything some of the wonder goes away.

otm

tbf the black hole is not bereft of good design work - the model stuff of the big ship rules, and maximilian stuck with me. but almost everything else is goofy or clunky or both. costumes look like costumes; sets look like sets. and obviously the characters might as well be wax dummies, even borgnine. so even before you consider effects, story, or cinematography, it's clear that star wars has got something that this has not.

Actually guys I just realized that a guy who claims to "care less" about stuff yet spends a day or two trying to ensure that we all understand that Michael Bay's most hated films - about some shit that was a toy set before it was ever even a shitty series of movies- are the cultural equivalent of a landmark trilogy that millions of people loved right away even though they'd never heard of it before (from a nobody director) - that guy might be trolling. What do you think.

You know what never mind, let's entertain this argument some more. I think the TF movies and Avengers and Star Wars are all the same, because they are all in full color, and loud. None of them discuss how the Swiss invented the cuckoo clock, or what that means.

XP The Black Hole fucking rules. I hum that score on the way to work on the regular.

oh yeah the theme is awesome. the titles too. I found it very hard to watch as an adult, is all. never a problem with star wars obv.

both Black Hole and Tron are much easier to digest as an adult if you treat them as the biblically-inspired operas that they are.