Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

Somehow this is making me think of that weird series of cartoons they did a decade back where it just the bots and only (I think) Jim Mallon and Paul Chaplin doing the voices. Did anyone see those? (Probably says as much upthread...)

When did that go up? Having trouble gauging whether it's doing really well or really not well.

In the short term, I'd love to know if another Turkey day marathon will be happening.

It just went up today.

No way Nelson, Murphy or Corbett get involved, right? Rifftrax is kind of a gravy train for them right now. (And Bridgett and Mary Jo have been involved with it of late as well.)

Then it looks like it's doing pretty well.

By the way, why do you feel mixed about this idea? I'm not sure they'd tarnish the series with a well meaning reboot, even if it turns out not quite as good.

I feel like this would be a perfect thing to pitch to Netflix, similar to others that have done the same.

xpost

Yeah, they'd have to get the original cast in on this or I would feel pretty unsure about the whole idea.

Original cast as far as the puppets go, I can see another new host working.

The core Rifftrax trio already indicated last year when rumors went around that this wasn't for them, precisely because they're doing so well with their own project as noted. (Two to one says they fully appreciate the simplicity of the setup.) They already did their own kinda-MST3K revival with The Film Crew and that didn't last.

As for why feeling mixed, even if (as I half assume) that Trace, Josh and Frank are all on board (and even then I'm not sure about Frank, they'd really need only Trace and Josh to completely start from ground zero) and all, I kinda feel the same way as I am about the Twin Peaks revival. I'm curious but I'm not gung-ho. Joel's a quietly remarkable fellow for sure and I only wish him the best, though.

So awesome. What a coincidence, I watched "The Lost Continent" last night.

Bluh. Yeah, I dunno. Even if it was Joel, Trace Crow and Kevin Servo in the theater - which seems unlikely but sort of necessary for this to not feel 'off' or indistinguishable from the other post-MST3K "sort of like MST3K" side projects - it's betting a lot on everybody still being as funny and on-point as they once were. All comes down to the writing team and sometimes you can't get a group dynamic to gel again. Especially if there are accumulated ill feelings about old slights and ongoing compensation inequities. It is true that there are tons more MST-type movies and shorts awaiting the treatment, and I would be more likely to watch this on Netflix, say, than to purchase individual RiffTrax episodes. I guess even if it was only as funny as a middling Sci-Fi-era episode, that'd still be nice, but the risk is that it's just totally lacking the magic and becomes the Star Wars Prequels of MST.

It wouldn't be Kevin, it would be Josh. Kevin's already ruled himself out as noted.

Ive been to lots of Rifftrax events and Cinematic Titanic events and I can say that there is way more magic when the CT crew are doing their thing. I'd be super happy if they were working together again under the official brand.

If anything it looks like this campaign will succeed to some degree, they're nearly one-tenth of the way to the initial goal already.

Okay we have some more info and he's basically wanting to do MST3K: The Next Generation here. Hopefully not season two.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/10/mystery-science-theater-3000-reboot

Those who he hopes to get involved include past cast members and writers, as well as a brand new cast that includes a fresh host as well as a new mad scientist and new voices for famous wise-cracking robots Tom Servo and Crow. “Basically, I’m trying to blend the old with the new,” says Hodgson. “Mystery Science Theater has already refreshed itself once with a completely new cast, so I think it deserves to do that again. The original cast is going to be invited back to write, produce, and do cameos as their mad science characters, and then there’s a new cast with new talent.”

Meantime, Mike on it all, understandably:

https://www.facebook.com/mikeatrifftrax/posts/1167399969942922

I loved my time at MST, but I was in essence a hired gun. The brand does not belong to me, and I make and have made (almost) zero dollars off it since it stopped production in 1999.
But HAPPILY -- I've spent nine years putting all my energies into RiffTrax (we now have created more tracks than we did in our time at MST!) and we have tons of exciting stuff coming up, including more live shows, more feature length stuff (including one of the finest films to ever feature an NES Power Glove), shorts, etc., etc.
As a fan of riffing of all kinds I'm glad there's going to be more out there, but just wanted to give a fuller picture of why I'm not involved.
Let me just close by saying how enormously grateful I am to be able to continue to work at something I love. So, thank you, all.

<3

Truly Hodgson-Nelson are the Lennon-McCartney of our time.

IMO the cast is just as important as the concept. I'm not sure why they can't or won't be involved?

I agree with that statement. As much as I've liked Cinematic Titanic's efforts (and have, largely, not liked Rifftrax's), there was a special kind of alchemy at work with the Best Brains lineup.

Still gonna kick over a few bucks, no doubt.

Already up to just under a million. So five million is looking pretty likely.

And yeah re: cast being as important as concept -- I said this over on FB after Joel's general goal became clearer: "I still think the fact that the original show just agglomerated over time with its key figures all being from a local scene generally off the radar, especially in a pre-widespread Internet age, is part of its genius, combined with how they owned being FROM Minnesota in turn. I can't see that happening again here now."

Also there's something a hair odd about Joel's statement yesterday, I realize -- "Mystery Science Theater has already refreshed itself once with a completely new cast." Ye-es, but not all at once. When the first major change occurred before season two and the last before season eight, that's a lot of time for people to adjust and for a slew of different approaches and dynamics to emerge.

LOL, someone on the Deep 13 FB group just expressed relief that Joel wasn't going to be a "Yoko" to the Rifftrax crew.

Roffle.

I just noticed that a large number of the absolute high end rewards for the campaigns are gone or mostly gone already. I shouldn't be surprised!

comedians who thrive in their 30s often don't in later years

OTM about the small local scene thing - the homemade, labor-of-love aspect of MST3K was a huge part not only of its aesthetic appeal but also of the quality/confidence/consistency of the riffing. There's a certain shared Generation X sensibility and set of references, that really feels pre "90s" if that makes sense. Like 80s college rock or something. I don't think that could be re-created for various reasons. Too much spotlight, too much time apart, too much Internet, too much self-awareness. I dunno.

True, a reboot will almost certainly not feel so thoroughly "handmade". Too much polish and this might, like everything else these days, have too much of that sterile/mobile-site design vibe which would create a tonal discrepancy vs. the VHS feel that was consistent across set and the films themselves. If that makes any sense to anyone else.

Are the robots going to be new voice actors? Cos if so that is a kind of a big letdown for me. I've seen many rifftrax and the ones w non-mst3k riffers were not all that entertaining tbh.

IMHO it's kind of amazing how lucky a set of voices they had in Kevin, Trace and Joel - they just sounded good in the theater, and the characters were likable with a lot of range in the kinds of jokes they could pull off. Latter-day Crow always sounded way too smarmy and sophomoric to me, especially since they seemed to stick him with a lot of weaker jokes that were just kind of "hey, movie, you suck!" as opposed to the more clever references. I'm sure if you started with those episodes his voice sounded just fine coming out of the puppet but it's never clicked with me and even as I've been exploring Sci-Fi-era episodes more of late, it still grates (though not as much as the seemingly endless and very hammy host segments).

we didn't even really see the characters for most of the show, just hear their voices. they are a HUGE part of the show.

not that i dont think Joel could pull it off but i haven't followed his post-mst3k career. is he working w new VA now? are those the people in the kickstarter video?

Guys, if the rest of the world gets to be excited over more g-d Star Wars movies, I can get excited over this.

hahaha that's fair. i mean if it happens there's no question i'd check it out. i just worry joel is becoming the guy who very eagerly and visibly wants to get the band back together when they've all moved on to other things, while somehow nothing he's attempted since has quite stuck. (though i know lots of people love cinematic titanic so that's not quite true.) he's gambling his stored-up capital of geek-culture fondness from the early 90s and if it's a flop it might really change how people feel about him generally. OTOH, if it gets a lot of exposure through netflix or something, it could introduce a whole new generation to MST, to riffing, to RiffTrax, etc. etc.

sounds like jonah ray is involved. if so im out. as my friend said its like a greek tragedy. "we are bringing back your favorite show of all time... EXCEPT ITS A NERDIST JOINT" noooooooooooooooooooo

really curious as to who, if anyone else, is involved in the reboot. is tv's frank coming back?

There's like nearly 200 episodes of this fucking thing, why do we need more?

Frank has a lucrative career trolling Twitter conservatives, can't imagine he wants to leave that.

there's like 10 million shitty movies and they keep being made.

first up: Zero Dark Thirty

xpost -- I'm imagining the alternate dimension where somehow there were only 200 bad movies and MST3K took care of them all.

Anyway, up to $1.5 mil so at the current rate, probably hitting the $2 mil minimum sometime tomorrow, and presumably $5 mil during next week.

Also, a general update with responses to various questions:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mst3k/bringbackmst3k/posts/1413188

The financial breakdown is good. It's the answers to questions 2 and 3 that delve deepest.

Also, if this isn't even more of a clear dig at Mallon, I suspect...or is it just simply an acknowledgement that it was all pretty much a shoestring?

Until yesterday, I wasn't even sure this whole Kickstarter idea would work. I've reached out and spoken with some of the old cast and writers, but until I knew how much money we'd have to work with – and when we'd start writing and shooting – there was just no way to make the specific offers that I hope will bring many of them back.

Plus – as many of you know – so far, the old cast haven't been compensated as well as they (or I) might have liked. I wish I could go back and fix that, but if I'm going to ask them to participate in the next season, I want to be certain we can pay them what they deserve this time.

Read another way too -- keep in mind Joel's comment about the cost of movies rising as MST3K got more popular -- the cast *themselves* realized they were worth more, and would be especially so now. It's an undercurrent here that maybe isn't getting as much play as it should beyond the comment above.

Anyway, he has to walk a fine line and I don't blame him.

Also of interest is this from Variety:

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/mystery-science-theater-3000-shout-factory-new-season-1201637585/

Given Mallon's directly quoted here too, however much it's press-release talk, hmm.

Some key stuff from that story, BTW.

Shout! Factory has acquired cult comedy series “Mystery Science Theater 3000,” Variety has learned.

The news of the acquisition comes the same day Joel Hodgson, the creator and writer of “Mystery Science Theater 3000,” launched a Kickstarter campaign to fund a new season of the show.

With the new deal, negotiated by Shout’s David McIntosh, Shout! Factory now has the proprietary rights the “Mystery Science Theater 3000” from Best Brains, Inc., including all brand assets and global intellectual property. The media company is partnering with Hodgson and his company Alternaversal, LLC on future endeavors surrounding the “MST3K” brand, including plans for new content development, digital media initiatives, live events, merchandise licensing programs and content syndication to international territories.

At the end of the day, our goal is to make each feature-length episode of MST3K for around $250,000.

To put that in perspective, that means we're spending less to create 90 minutes of MST3K than even the lower-end reality shows spend to make 22 minutes! (Really makes ya think, don't it?)

those actually are pretty reasonable answers. interesting that he does touch on the compensation issue. and it's a fair point that had there been more than two hosts, adding one more to the set wouldn't seem so weird. also makes me appreciate him not making himself the host, which presumably would be a huge draw - it'd really feel like a classic rock act with most of the members replaced by hired guns, as if only the lead singer had ever been important. so, yeah, okay, all new. I'll think about it.... but ned, my god, stop donating before you bring ruin upon the house of raggett!!

yeah they are doing a good job here. can't wait to see what happens.

I half suspect the answers were partially prompted by reactions like this earlier piece from today.

http://flavorwire.com/547225/somethings-not-right-about-the-new-crowdfunded-mystery-science-theater-3000

Which touches on a lot of things I've noted above in the answers, but I'm still really curious about two things:

* What IS Mallon's involvement?

* What exactly is Shout! Factory budgeting/contributing for the new show in all this? The quote from the rep is "Shout has also made huge investments already just to make this possible," so I'm wondering if that's the actual physical location for shooting.

None of this is me going "OH HOW HORRID," more just wondering about the economics. Though Mallon really seems to have been poison for a number of the original folks in recent years. Certainly Mary Jo didn't hold back a little while ago.

I find this rundown from the Flavorwire piece of specific interest:

“I’m not involved at all with the Mystery Science Theater 3000 reboot,” Nelson noted on Facebook, and then followed up: “I loved my time at MST, but I was in essence a hired gun. The brand does not belong to me, and I make and have made (almost) zero dollars off it since it stopped production in 1999.” Bill Corbett concurred: “No, I am not involved in this.” J. Elvis Weinstein “won’t be participating.” Trace Beaulieu: “Not involved at all,” and the kind of Dr. Forrester cameo Hodgson alludes to “won’t be happening.” Mary Jo Pehl is not involved. Frank Conniff hasn’t yet commented publicly; neither has Kevin Murphy, but considering his ongoing relationship with Corbett and Nelson, it seems safe to bet he isn’t in either. (It sounds like there may be some ill will over residuals from the old show —when I reached out to Rifftrax about their recent addition of old MST3K episodes to their streaming library, I was told that, among its benefits, the new syndication gave “Mike, Kevin, and Bill a chance to see direct economic benefit from MST, where since the show stopped airing, they have received either very limited, or no compensation.”)