Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

I agree with that statement. As much as I've liked Cinematic Titanic's efforts (and have, largely, not liked Rifftrax's), there was a special kind of alchemy at work with the Best Brains lineup.

Still gonna kick over a few bucks, no doubt.

Already up to just under a million. So five million is looking pretty likely.

And yeah re: cast being as important as concept -- I said this over on FB after Joel's general goal became clearer: "I still think the fact that the original show just agglomerated over time with its key figures all being from a local scene generally off the radar, especially in a pre-widespread Internet age, is part of its genius, combined with how they owned being FROM Minnesota in turn. I can't see that happening again here now."

Also there's something a hair odd about Joel's statement yesterday, I realize -- "Mystery Science Theater has already refreshed itself once with a completely new cast." Ye-es, but not all at once. When the first major change occurred before season two and the last before season eight, that's a lot of time for people to adjust and for a slew of different approaches and dynamics to emerge.

LOL, someone on the Deep 13 FB group just expressed relief that Joel wasn't going to be a "Yoko" to the Rifftrax crew.

Roffle.

I just noticed that a large number of the absolute high end rewards for the campaigns are gone or mostly gone already. I shouldn't be surprised!

comedians who thrive in their 30s often don't in later years

OTM about the small local scene thing - the homemade, labor-of-love aspect of MST3K was a huge part not only of its aesthetic appeal but also of the quality/confidence/consistency of the riffing. There's a certain shared Generation X sensibility and set of references, that really feels pre "90s" if that makes sense. Like 80s college rock or something. I don't think that could be re-created for various reasons. Too much spotlight, too much time apart, too much Internet, too much self-awareness. I dunno.

True, a reboot will almost certainly not feel so thoroughly "handmade". Too much polish and this might, like everything else these days, have too much of that sterile/mobile-site design vibe which would create a tonal discrepancy vs. the VHS feel that was consistent across set and the films themselves. If that makes any sense to anyone else.

Are the robots going to be new voice actors? Cos if so that is a kind of a big letdown for me. I've seen many rifftrax and the ones w non-mst3k riffers were not all that entertaining tbh.

IMHO it's kind of amazing how lucky a set of voices they had in Kevin, Trace and Joel - they just sounded good in the theater, and the characters were likable with a lot of range in the kinds of jokes they could pull off. Latter-day Crow always sounded way too smarmy and sophomoric to me, especially since they seemed to stick him with a lot of weaker jokes that were just kind of "hey, movie, you suck!" as opposed to the more clever references. I'm sure if you started with those episodes his voice sounded just fine coming out of the puppet but it's never clicked with me and even as I've been exploring Sci-Fi-era episodes more of late, it still grates (though not as much as the seemingly endless and very hammy host segments).

we didn't even really see the characters for most of the show, just hear their voices. they are a HUGE part of the show.

not that i dont think Joel could pull it off but i haven't followed his post-mst3k career. is he working w new VA now? are those the people in the kickstarter video?

Guys, if the rest of the world gets to be excited over more g-d Star Wars movies, I can get excited over this.

hahaha that's fair. i mean if it happens there's no question i'd check it out. i just worry joel is becoming the guy who very eagerly and visibly wants to get the band back together when they've all moved on to other things, while somehow nothing he's attempted since has quite stuck. (though i know lots of people love cinematic titanic so that's not quite true.) he's gambling his stored-up capital of geek-culture fondness from the early 90s and if it's a flop it might really change how people feel about him generally. OTOH, if it gets a lot of exposure through netflix or something, it could introduce a whole new generation to MST, to riffing, to RiffTrax, etc. etc.

sounds like jonah ray is involved. if so im out. as my friend said its like a greek tragedy. "we are bringing back your favorite show of all time... EXCEPT ITS A NERDIST JOINT" noooooooooooooooooooo

really curious as to who, if anyone else, is involved in the reboot. is tv's frank coming back?

There's like nearly 200 episodes of this fucking thing, why do we need more?

Frank has a lucrative career trolling Twitter conservatives, can't imagine he wants to leave that.

there's like 10 million shitty movies and they keep being made.

first up: Zero Dark Thirty

xpost -- I'm imagining the alternate dimension where somehow there were only 200 bad movies and MST3K took care of them all.

Anyway, up to $1.5 mil so at the current rate, probably hitting the $2 mil minimum sometime tomorrow, and presumably $5 mil during next week.

Also, a general update with responses to various questions:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mst3k/bringbackmst3k/posts/1413188

The financial breakdown is good. It's the answers to questions 2 and 3 that delve deepest.

Also, if this isn't even more of a clear dig at Mallon, I suspect...or is it just simply an acknowledgement that it was all pretty much a shoestring?

Until yesterday, I wasn't even sure this whole Kickstarter idea would work. I've reached out and spoken with some of the old cast and writers, but until I knew how much money we'd have to work with – and when we'd start writing and shooting – there was just no way to make the specific offers that I hope will bring many of them back.

Plus – as many of you know – so far, the old cast haven't been compensated as well as they (or I) might have liked. I wish I could go back and fix that, but if I'm going to ask them to participate in the next season, I want to be certain we can pay them what they deserve this time.

Read another way too -- keep in mind Joel's comment about the cost of movies rising as MST3K got more popular -- the cast *themselves* realized they were worth more, and would be especially so now. It's an undercurrent here that maybe isn't getting as much play as it should beyond the comment above.

Anyway, he has to walk a fine line and I don't blame him.

Also of interest is this from Variety:

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/mystery-science-theater-3000-shout-factory-new-season-1201637585/

Given Mallon's directly quoted here too, however much it's press-release talk, hmm.

Some key stuff from that story, BTW.

Shout! Factory has acquired cult comedy series “Mystery Science Theater 3000,” Variety has learned.

The news of the acquisition comes the same day Joel Hodgson, the creator and writer of “Mystery Science Theater 3000,” launched a Kickstarter campaign to fund a new season of the show.

With the new deal, negotiated by Shout’s David McIntosh, Shout! Factory now has the proprietary rights the “Mystery Science Theater 3000” from Best Brains, Inc., including all brand assets and global intellectual property. The media company is partnering with Hodgson and his company Alternaversal, LLC on future endeavors surrounding the “MST3K” brand, including plans for new content development, digital media initiatives, live events, merchandise licensing programs and content syndication to international territories.

At the end of the day, our goal is to make each feature-length episode of MST3K for around $250,000.

To put that in perspective, that means we're spending less to create 90 minutes of MST3K than even the lower-end reality shows spend to make 22 minutes! (Really makes ya think, don't it?)

those actually are pretty reasonable answers. interesting that he does touch on the compensation issue. and it's a fair point that had there been more than two hosts, adding one more to the set wouldn't seem so weird. also makes me appreciate him not making himself the host, which presumably would be a huge draw - it'd really feel like a classic rock act with most of the members replaced by hired guns, as if only the lead singer had ever been important. so, yeah, okay, all new. I'll think about it.... but ned, my god, stop donating before you bring ruin upon the house of raggett!!

yeah they are doing a good job here. can't wait to see what happens.

I half suspect the answers were partially prompted by reactions like this earlier piece from today.

http://flavorwire.com/547225/somethings-not-right-about-the-new-crowdfunded-mystery-science-theater-3000

Which touches on a lot of things I've noted above in the answers, but I'm still really curious about two things:

* What IS Mallon's involvement?

* What exactly is Shout! Factory budgeting/contributing for the new show in all this? The quote from the rep is "Shout has also made huge investments already just to make this possible," so I'm wondering if that's the actual physical location for shooting.

None of this is me going "OH HOW HORRID," more just wondering about the economics. Though Mallon really seems to have been poison for a number of the original folks in recent years. Certainly Mary Jo didn't hold back a little while ago.

I find this rundown from the Flavorwire piece of specific interest:

“I’m not involved at all with the Mystery Science Theater 3000 reboot,” Nelson noted on Facebook, and then followed up: “I loved my time at MST, but I was in essence a hired gun. The brand does not belong to me, and I make and have made (almost) zero dollars off it since it stopped production in 1999.” Bill Corbett concurred: “No, I am not involved in this.” J. Elvis Weinstein “won’t be participating.” Trace Beaulieu: “Not involved at all,” and the kind of Dr. Forrester cameo Hodgson alludes to “won’t be happening.” Mary Jo Pehl is not involved. Frank Conniff hasn’t yet commented publicly; neither has Kevin Murphy, but considering his ongoing relationship with Corbett and Nelson, it seems safe to bet he isn’t in either. (It sounds like there may be some ill will over residuals from the old show —when I reached out to Rifftrax about their recent addition of old MST3K episodes to their streaming library, I was told that, among its benefits, the new syndication gave “Mike, Kevin, and Bill a chance to see direct economic benefit from MST, where since the show stopped airing, they have received either very limited, or no compensation.”)

New interview yesterday on Vox. Carries a bit of the skeptical tone elsewhere in the introduction; the interview itself has some tidbits. Thus:

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/13/9727784/mystery-science-theater-kickstarter-joel-hodgson

It'll be slightly different, but it will be built off the narrative where we left off. The Kickstarter costs more upfront because we're paying for those upfront costs — building sets, new costumes ,visual development, building models, upgrades to the puppets. Tom Servo will be able to fly around in the theater, and Crow's going to be able to walk and stuff like that. There's all these little neat things.

Annnnd fully confirmed Joel wants Jonah Ray as the new host:

http://bit.ly/mst3k-update4

yuck

yeah eff this if that is the case

it will be sad to see mst3k go the way of this new school nerd marketing. this must be what it feels like for punk fans when their bands sellout.

The show was always way nerdy tho?

i draw a line between pre-internet era nerd culture. mst3k comes from that. the era before you could record a podcast of yourself ranting about nostalgia for something massively popular like Back to the Future and call yourself a nerd.

heh, i love that kind of arbitrary line-shifting
like i don't consider anyone a millennial if they're over 21

But what's the difference really? If in conversation I said "some people are skeptical about the nerdist direction" and they asked why I'd shrug. That being said my only real exposure to nerdist related media is via the @midnight show.

it seems more about comedy and marketing than genuinely liking these old b movies. theres a level of contempt and detachment i dont get from the earlier mst3k crew.

it just comes across more cynical to me.

its not really an arbitrary line, either. this is the era of two massively successful Lord of the Rings trilogies, Game of Thrones, and Harry Potter. was there ANY pop fantasy in the 90s at all? i am struggling to think of anything past Xena.

Is it also just a danger for less obscure references to records/movies/books? Is it the hypothetical shift from hipster-nerd humor to gamestop-nerd humor?

eh i am just doing the time honored internet tradition of griping about something before it comes out lol

i can just see the first episode of mst3k stopping about 5 mins in for this guy to give shout outs to his friends podcast and btw courtesy of comedy bang bang here is a special guest star blah blah. just give me rocket number nine, isolated, in space.

Well, blue skying here, but it feels like the kind of shift where somebody in the new crew would drop an Iain M. Banks reference, only because Mark Zuckerberg mentioned reading Player of Games once.

theres a level of contempt and detachment i dont get from the earlier mst3k crew

Right, but as I've harped before, I DO get a sense of contempt from the Rifftrax crew that they didn't seem to display even in the Sci-Fi era of MST3K.

I note Ray is originally from Hawaii, and if they want something of the spirit of the original to come through, some kind of sensibility has to come through, even if it's a regular set of hyperlocal references that still work in general.

maybe i am judging him too harshly. is there any video evidence of this guy being a good host? i looked him up on youtube and listened to his "EP" which was just a comedy podcast chopped up

i was hoping my mans trace would be involved but he seems to be content to just doing what he's been doing at his own pace