Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

Frank has a lucrative career trolling Twitter conservatives, can't imagine he wants to leave that.

there's like 10 million shitty movies and they keep being made.

first up: Zero Dark Thirty

xpost -- I'm imagining the alternate dimension where somehow there were only 200 bad movies and MST3K took care of them all.

Anyway, up to $1.5 mil so at the current rate, probably hitting the $2 mil minimum sometime tomorrow, and presumably $5 mil during next week.

Also, a general update with responses to various questions:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mst3k/bringbackmst3k/posts/1413188

The financial breakdown is good. It's the answers to questions 2 and 3 that delve deepest.

Also, if this isn't even more of a clear dig at Mallon, I suspect...or is it just simply an acknowledgement that it was all pretty much a shoestring?

Until yesterday, I wasn't even sure this whole Kickstarter idea would work. I've reached out and spoken with some of the old cast and writers, but until I knew how much money we'd have to work with – and when we'd start writing and shooting – there was just no way to make the specific offers that I hope will bring many of them back.

Plus – as many of you know – so far, the old cast haven't been compensated as well as they (or I) might have liked. I wish I could go back and fix that, but if I'm going to ask them to participate in the next season, I want to be certain we can pay them what they deserve this time.

Read another way too -- keep in mind Joel's comment about the cost of movies rising as MST3K got more popular -- the cast *themselves* realized they were worth more, and would be especially so now. It's an undercurrent here that maybe isn't getting as much play as it should beyond the comment above.

Anyway, he has to walk a fine line and I don't blame him.

Also of interest is this from Variety:

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/mystery-science-theater-3000-shout-factory-new-season-1201637585/

Given Mallon's directly quoted here too, however much it's press-release talk, hmm.

Some key stuff from that story, BTW.

Shout! Factory has acquired cult comedy series “Mystery Science Theater 3000,” Variety has learned.

The news of the acquisition comes the same day Joel Hodgson, the creator and writer of “Mystery Science Theater 3000,” launched a Kickstarter campaign to fund a new season of the show.

With the new deal, negotiated by Shout’s David McIntosh, Shout! Factory now has the proprietary rights the “Mystery Science Theater 3000” from Best Brains, Inc., including all brand assets and global intellectual property. The media company is partnering with Hodgson and his company Alternaversal, LLC on future endeavors surrounding the “MST3K” brand, including plans for new content development, digital media initiatives, live events, merchandise licensing programs and content syndication to international territories.

At the end of the day, our goal is to make each feature-length episode of MST3K for around $250,000.

To put that in perspective, that means we're spending less to create 90 minutes of MST3K than even the lower-end reality shows spend to make 22 minutes! (Really makes ya think, don't it?)

those actually are pretty reasonable answers. interesting that he does touch on the compensation issue. and it's a fair point that had there been more than two hosts, adding one more to the set wouldn't seem so weird. also makes me appreciate him not making himself the host, which presumably would be a huge draw - it'd really feel like a classic rock act with most of the members replaced by hired guns, as if only the lead singer had ever been important. so, yeah, okay, all new. I'll think about it.... but ned, my god, stop donating before you bring ruin upon the house of raggett!!

yeah they are doing a good job here. can't wait to see what happens.

I half suspect the answers were partially prompted by reactions like this earlier piece from today.

http://flavorwire.com/547225/somethings-not-right-about-the-new-crowdfunded-mystery-science-theater-3000

Which touches on a lot of things I've noted above in the answers, but I'm still really curious about two things:

* What IS Mallon's involvement?

* What exactly is Shout! Factory budgeting/contributing for the new show in all this? The quote from the rep is "Shout has also made huge investments already just to make this possible," so I'm wondering if that's the actual physical location for shooting.

None of this is me going "OH HOW HORRID," more just wondering about the economics. Though Mallon really seems to have been poison for a number of the original folks in recent years. Certainly Mary Jo didn't hold back a little while ago.

I find this rundown from the Flavorwire piece of specific interest:

“I’m not involved at all with the Mystery Science Theater 3000 reboot,” Nelson noted on Facebook, and then followed up: “I loved my time at MST, but I was in essence a hired gun. The brand does not belong to me, and I make and have made (almost) zero dollars off it since it stopped production in 1999.” Bill Corbett concurred: “No, I am not involved in this.” J. Elvis Weinstein “won’t be participating.” Trace Beaulieu: “Not involved at all,” and the kind of Dr. Forrester cameo Hodgson alludes to “won’t be happening.” Mary Jo Pehl is not involved. Frank Conniff hasn’t yet commented publicly; neither has Kevin Murphy, but considering his ongoing relationship with Corbett and Nelson, it seems safe to bet he isn’t in either. (It sounds like there may be some ill will over residuals from the old show —when I reached out to Rifftrax about their recent addition of old MST3K episodes to their streaming library, I was told that, among its benefits, the new syndication gave “Mike, Kevin, and Bill a chance to see direct economic benefit from MST, where since the show stopped airing, they have received either very limited, or no compensation.”)

New interview yesterday on Vox. Carries a bit of the skeptical tone elsewhere in the introduction; the interview itself has some tidbits. Thus:

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/13/9727784/mystery-science-theater-kickstarter-joel-hodgson

It'll be slightly different, but it will be built off the narrative where we left off. The Kickstarter costs more upfront because we're paying for those upfront costs — building sets, new costumes ,visual development, building models, upgrades to the puppets. Tom Servo will be able to fly around in the theater, and Crow's going to be able to walk and stuff like that. There's all these little neat things.

Annnnd fully confirmed Joel wants Jonah Ray as the new host:

http://bit.ly/mst3k-update4

yuck

yeah eff this if that is the case

it will be sad to see mst3k go the way of this new school nerd marketing. this must be what it feels like for punk fans when their bands sellout.

The show was always way nerdy tho?

i draw a line between pre-internet era nerd culture. mst3k comes from that. the era before you could record a podcast of yourself ranting about nostalgia for something massively popular like Back to the Future and call yourself a nerd.

heh, i love that kind of arbitrary line-shifting
like i don't consider anyone a millennial if they're over 21

But what's the difference really? If in conversation I said "some people are skeptical about the nerdist direction" and they asked why I'd shrug. That being said my only real exposure to nerdist related media is via the @midnight show.

it seems more about comedy and marketing than genuinely liking these old b movies. theres a level of contempt and detachment i dont get from the earlier mst3k crew.

it just comes across more cynical to me.

its not really an arbitrary line, either. this is the era of two massively successful Lord of the Rings trilogies, Game of Thrones, and Harry Potter. was there ANY pop fantasy in the 90s at all? i am struggling to think of anything past Xena.

Is it also just a danger for less obscure references to records/movies/books? Is it the hypothetical shift from hipster-nerd humor to gamestop-nerd humor?

eh i am just doing the time honored internet tradition of griping about something before it comes out lol

i can just see the first episode of mst3k stopping about 5 mins in for this guy to give shout outs to his friends podcast and btw courtesy of comedy bang bang here is a special guest star blah blah. just give me rocket number nine, isolated, in space.

Well, blue skying here, but it feels like the kind of shift where somebody in the new crew would drop an Iain M. Banks reference, only because Mark Zuckerberg mentioned reading Player of Games once.

theres a level of contempt and detachment i dont get from the earlier mst3k crew

Right, but as I've harped before, I DO get a sense of contempt from the Rifftrax crew that they didn't seem to display even in the Sci-Fi era of MST3K.

I note Ray is originally from Hawaii, and if they want something of the spirit of the original to come through, some kind of sensibility has to come through, even if it's a regular set of hyperlocal references that still work in general.

maybe i am judging him too harshly. is there any video evidence of this guy being a good host? i looked him up on youtube and listened to his "EP" which was just a comedy podcast chopped up

i was hoping my mans trace would be involved but he seems to be content to just doing what he's been doing at his own pace

nah dude jonah ray sux.

I note he's trying to push back already:

https://twitter.com/jonahray/status/666312032812036096

the reason I couldn't keep listening to the Nerdist was that Jonah and those other guys were such try-hards about getting a joke out every 15 seconds or so, usually incredibly superficially. It was like dopes trying to riff against their own show.

i mean i cant blame joel for picking him hes a popular person w comedy nerd bonafides and is a proven performer. i guess it was out of the question to have joel himself back, which is what i really want.

joel seems more like a film nerd to me than a comedy nerd. hence him not being as comfortable in front of the camera. he created a show where he spends 90% of it in silhouette. i think this is where the soul of the show is and am resisting the idea of a bunch of unfunny comedy nerd people taking over.

http://www.avclub.com/article/jonah-ray-his-intense-burning-hatred-sublimes-what-206997

here is a sample of his riffing, on the band sublime. he goes into detail about his own history listening to cool punk and metal bands. lots of jokes about Guy Fieri

I'm going into denial about this, going to fantasize about what it would've been like if they'd hired the Flop House guys as host & robots.

Re: Jonah Ray: If you hang around in the vicinity of talented people long enough, people will start giving you gigs just because you're in the room.

He seems pretty ILM-friendly to me based on the Sublime thing.

too bad the show is not Music Sarcasm Theater 3000

He's is a movie buff fwiw, especially genre stuff. Listen to the Nerdist episode with Elijah Wood if you want to hear two insufferable people try to one-up each other.

I was going to say he co-hosts the James Bonding podcast but then I realized that was the other Baby Hardwick, Matt Mira.

He's is a movie buff fwiw

Of course he is. He grew up w the internet. Anyone can become a film buff with Wikipedia.

Or with ILX :)

loved the show when it was on, went to the first convention, but i don't need more of it.

Wait, was that the convention in '94? I think I remember seeing photos of that in the Satellite of Love newsletter

A coupla guys I knew from the campus humor newspaper stole the Dr. Forrester standee and kept it in the office for years after.

Separately, there's a note that is appearing on the direct MST sales via Rifftrax (the hook being new Mike intros):

P.S. - A significant share of the profits of all MST episodes sold on RiffTrax will be paid out directly to ALL the principal cast members of MST – Mike, Joel, Kevin, Bill, Mary Jo, Trace, Frank, Josh and Bridget. We feel it’s important that the original artists benefit directly from their awesome work. So if you want to support them, buy your MST here on RiffTrax!

Anyway, they hit $2 million so one way or another, it's happening.

bleah, an internet nerd-celebrity person is definitely not the direction this needed to go, even though all of us internet nerds have probably dreamed of such a position at one point or another and can't really resent jonah ray what must be the phone call of a lifetime. i do think there are structural things about nerd-dom and the internet and the blogger/youtube "i'm really funny when i talk about movies/video games/comics/whatever" culture that sort of guarantee it'd be someone like this. i mean how else would you talent-scout for it?

basically the problem is that mst3k, the quirky homemade "who are these people?" show that's seemingly beamed in from under a rock by people with a sensibility at once weirder, funnier and smarter than basically anything else on TV, is kind of impossible in 2015. even if mst3k the show didn't already exist (and hadn't already inspired so many others to do the kinds of things the show did). with youtube, EVERYBODY and their couch buddies can fashion themselves into a homemade show jockeying for your attention. there's millions of such things (though none are remotely as good or as lovingly crafted or thought-through as MST in its heyday). it can't be special, and mst3k really was special, in the way of great cable access shows (from which roots of course it came) or late-night labor-of-love radio programs or local bands on a mixtape someone gave you that are so good you can't believe how fucking good they are. a consequence of there being so many media choices is that you lose the sense of something weird and genuinely quirky slipping through, to be claimed just by you and the few others you'd find who "got it."

none of this is joel hodgson's fault incidentally, except maybe inadvertently making a lot of people think they're funnier than they are when riffing movies. (funny enough for it to be a blast with your friends and at local riffing type parties, because the social interaction is part of the fun - but this does not transmit to your youtube channel.) i'm a serious curmudgeon with these things though - The Flophouse turned me off in the same way Nerdist turns off president keyes. i've liked a teeny bit of "how did this get made." (though i remain convinced it would be way better if they actually gave a shit about how it got made. and didn't think the only way to be funny about a movie was to point out in as loud a voice as possible the parts that are ridiculous and don't make sense.) redlettermedia (another upper midwestern crew) have a really tough hit/miss ratio with some great and well-edited observations mixed in with tedious beat-up-on-the-movie stuff and some frankly super offensive moves that should not have made it through. (fuck rich evans's "chinese" impression prank phone call, to mock a video which was clearly intended to help english-as-a-second-language chinese immigrants learn to use the internet.) basically i can't think of anybody on the internet, even those people i do enjoy listening to, who i'd trust behind one of the puppets or hosting MST. it's not so much that all these people suck, it's kind of that we're not worthy and don't deserve nice things. (i'd accept ned, though.)

anyway yeah - not joel's fault, but it's the landscape he's got to work with. suddenly it's hard for MST3K to be something other than another geek brand hoping to capture some of your discretionary internet viewing time. obviously i'll look like a real lame-o when it turns out this new show is brilliantly written and effortlessly charming but i just fear for the loss of the ineffable "feel." adam bruneau sums up my worst nightmare: shout outs to his friends podcast and btw courtesy of comedy bang bang here is a special guest star blah blah - god help us. maybe the only way out would be to get people known for non-funny movie podcasts - evaluate based on speaking voice and their love of film rather than their mockery of it. i'm sure there are tons out there but right now i'm thinking of the (sadly recently-defunct) "bonnie and maude" which was so refreshing for just being a couple of people and their guests having an actual conversation, listening to each other, trying to think through something about the movie while they were talking. but again, i'm an old crank and a blowhard.