Best CHEERS character

I don't really think that there is anything ever expressed in Diane's character which indicates that she is intimidated or threatened by Sam's advances

right and this is what I think is sort of odd because who wouldn't be threatened or intimidated by his behavior, no matter how charming? he's her boss

xp

the fight they have at the end of the 1st or second season, just before they kiss, where sam says he wants to bounce her off every wall in the office, and diane says he will be walking funny afterwards if he tries it, is properly dark imo.

yeah this is the end of season 1 (just watched last night) - I think past this point it's clear things are mutual and Sam's behavior from then on isn't really harassment, they both torture each other

Coach was brilliant and I too preferred Diane to Rebecca but both era's were great and they sure struck the jackpot when Woody replaced Coach as we all thought Coach was irreplaceable when he died.

Mark s promised me years ago he'd show me a scan of his Cheers cover story for nme. I need to ask him

magnificent pagan beast

I think past this point it's clear things are mutual and Sam's behavior from then on isn't really harassment, they both torture each other

The power and gender dynamic can be really gross, but I do think this is what makes the show's early seasons so poignant. They're so drawn to each other but they can't stop hurting each other (and themselves). Those first seasons are really a five-act tragedy.

I still get choked when I think of the season 5 finale, Sam bidding farewell to Diane forever (!) and dreaming of their live together as pensioners.

I always thought the finality of that story was kinda poorly justified in-universe, because there's no reason given why Diane can't just come back after she's finished her book. It's framed so that Sam knows Diane won't come back, even if neither of them says it out loud, but the justification for all that seems to come more from the fact that the viewers knew Shelley Long was leaving for good rather than from any explicit or implicit character moment which would confirm this. (Maybe the writers even chose to leave it open-ended, just in case Long might return?) This is why I like the series finale, where Diane does actually come back, because the unexplored theme of the season 5 finale is finally properly explored, when Sam and Diane figure out they don't really work as a long-term couple.

Kelly my darling, you are my sunshine;
When we're together I feel fine.
Your smile is so lovely; your hair is so clean;
You make me feel that the whole world is mine.
Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly,
Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, K-E-L-L-Y ...
Why? Because you're

Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly,
(pause) Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly,
Kelly of mine!

(applause)

Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine,
Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine,
... Mine!

I have belatedly come to the conclusion that Sam is the best.

― ewar woowar (or something), Monday, May 2, 2016 4:54 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yep

I always thought the finality of that story was kinda poorly justified in-universe, because there's no reason given why Diane can't just come back after she's finished her book.

I think this betrays a complete misunderstanding of what a flighty kook Diane truly is

Sam knows it too. He's just spent a whole season trying to propose to her.

The finale would have worked better if there had been more emotional fallout from Diane's departure. Obviously there were financial repercussions (Sam sinks his boat and loses his bar), but he's processed the loss by the time season 6 starts. Ironically it was Frasier who never really got over the trauma.

Oh, also, I got a kitten last month and named her Lilith

Never once does she give any indication about worrying about losing her job because she's refusing the boss's advances, for ex.

so I take this back, actually. There's an episode in season 2, after Diane and Sam have started going out, where Diane is looking around for another job because Carla is complaining that Sam is favoring her. But after getting a bunch of interviews Diane complains about how every offer comes with "strings attached", sexual advances etc., which turns into an argument between her and Sam about whether or not that's why Sam hired her (which he deftly turns back around to her with the implication that *she* was sizing *him* up as a sexual conquest when she applied for the job). It's all done with the show's usual deft reversals and good humor, was cool to see it brought into the open.

this show really took a dive when Kirstie Alley came on. Way more episodes with standard cliche sitcom plots ("oh no the boss is coming to dinner!", "oh no I'm caught in some outrageous lie, how do I keep up this pretense!" etc.) and without the central Diane/Sam conflict relationship driving things stuff seems to drift. There's still good stuff (Kellykellykellykellykellykelly) but it gets bogged down.

in other news apparently my wife played the CHEERS boardgame last night

Sam gets cartoonish around that time, and the rest of the characters and plots follow suit.

also not a fan of the "look! a smart, confident, takes-no-shit woman for Sam to have to...oh wait no that was just a front, she's a neurotic mess" arc for Ms Howe.

yeah and that revelation takes place within like two episodes of her being on the show

Some of the Rebecca stuff is undeniably goofy, yes, but in a way it is almost a different show once she comes aboard. Or maybe it's own spinoff: once the Sam/Diane plot is over, the show is able to become more about the social group as a kind of extended family, and as we are already comfortable and familiar with these characters by the time this happens, it works. It also allows for what I still think of as a remarkable series finale.

I remember the finale being good but don't feel like slogging through 4 more seasons of Rebecca hijinks to get there. Her series of boss-crushes (Tom Skerritt?! I had totally forgotten about him) is p tiresome.

I think there are a lot of great Kirstie Alley-era episodes, tbh, but yeah, it's about the larger cast by this point.

Sam as the rapping sportscaster (I think that's Kirstie Alley's second episode?) is an awewsome episode. He's like a proto Homer Simpson.

Way more episodes with standard cliche sitcom plots ("oh no the boss is coming to dinner!", "oh no I'm caught in some outrageous lie, how do I keep up this pretense!" etc.)

Rebecca::Frasier, Frasier::Niles, Sam::Roz...

Been watching lots of Allie era episodes lately, currently half through the 10th season

It's interesting to see the 'rise' of the Frasier character, in the tenth season he's almost the central figure in the show.

Frasier drives a lot of storylines, def

Woody's political campaign is a favourite. All of the Woody stuff with Kelly and her family and Jean Paul, in fact. And when Lilith dumps Frasier... And when the bar burns down and Carla gets a job at Mr Pubs.

Rebecca is a lesser character than Diane but I think Kirstie Alley is a sharper comic actor and makes it work.

Woody and Lilith are def shining lights of the post-Long seasons

Glad that Cliff won this btw. I remember when they were playing Monopoly, one of the funniest scenes.

"It all goes back to my eighth grade science fair, everybody else had rabbits and guinea pigs. I had a tapeworm."
"Really?"
"Yeah, so I couldn't go."

I had forgotten that Cliff's mom actually appears onscreen (unlike Vera, iirc?), same actress that played Kyle MacLachlan's WASPy mom on Sex in the City

Vera appeared, except with her face covered in pie or something like that.

And also her legs on the stairway.

IIRC, when Vera's voice was heard or part of her was scene, like in that pie scene, she was played by George Wendt's real-life wife.

"part of her was seen"

Ah, yes!

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0083579/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

I've probably mentioned this before, probably in this thread, but when George Wendt was starring in Art in the West End he was a regular figure in the balcony of the Astoria for gigs by passing US noisers and indie-rockers.

yeah his indie rock bonafides are well known

Could never tell if Jackie Swanson (Kelly) doing a great performance of a bad character or a terrible performance of a basic character, or something.

'was' doing

I've wondered for years if it showed how tall George Wendt was in that show. I wound up being an extra in a film that was made at Ardmore studios in the mid 90s where I was in a scene with him and was surprised by quite how large he was. Think he was 6ft plus and I always thought of him as not being that tall from the show.

google says he's only 5'6? maybe he was wearing elevator shoes

was this the film?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Truckers

https://media.timeout.com/images/101645791/320/210/image.jpg

It was indeed.
I think you do see me on the screen for about 30 seconds right at the beginning.

Omg that film is amazingly bad

"Nobody jacks my load!"

He can't be that tall. Here he is with Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armesin

http://i.imgur.com/qBVcPoI.jpg

That's weird I'm somewhere between 5ft 10 and 6ft and thought he was taller.

I was also surprised Dennis Hopper was smaller than I'd assumed.

A bloke I used to know was George Wendt's driver when he was doing this thing and said he was an A+ righteous dude. He never did manage to get him out to the pub with us though.

i didn't like ted danson's acting on cheers. a performance based on a few tics. strange since he's done good things since then.

― Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Friday, August 25, 2017 12:15 PM (three hours ago)

ban abanana

Only to the extent that *every* performance on the show was one based on a few tics. Danson has the richest character to play though--take him out of the show and you are basically left with a series of one-note sketches based on easily recognizable character types--and I thought he always (with a few exceptions, when it was more of a case of the writers letting him down) played it beautifully.