Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

https://www.behindthename.com/name/kinga

Fair enough

#ByeKinga

Sidehackers is still a really gross, uncomfortable movie, and not one I would have put on a playlist for neophytes. But it does have some good riffing. Love Tom's talkin' country song during the backyard practice scene.

The YT search that got me the Mike/Frank thing above also taught me that BMX sidehacking is apparently...a thing? Dudes in Ukrainian forest trails doing sidehacking races and shit. I'll let you go look for yourself if interested rather than clog up the thread with unwanted real life sidehack footage.

New interview with Joel

http://io9.gizmodo.com/creator-joel-hodgson-on-the-return-of-mystery-science-t-1793682355

And I will say this is spot on:

We’re 50/50 partners in the new MST. They helped motivate this just as much as I did, too. They wanted it to happen, too, and it made a lot of sense because they had done so well with the brand distributing [the MST3K] DVDs. They were demonstrating over time that people were still interested in it—“Hey, this thing isn’t really going away. People are still interested in it and talking about it. So it’s possible we could have a shot at buying it and trying to bring it back.”

So, that had a lot to do with it. And also, the good thing is it created a relationship with these people buying DVDs over the years. And people really like them. They did a good job.

Kinda (in)famously, part of the whole origin of Shout Factory has to do with MST3K and DVDs -- it was a partnership of three folks at Rhino, who handled the original releases/sets, getting dissatisfied with the company as a whole, compounded by notable problems with some of the (eventually last) Rhino DVD releases -- bad masters here and there and, even more notably, two cases where entire sets had to be recalled/modified because they screwed up obtaining formal rights (for Women of the Prehistoric World and even more notoriously Godzilla vs. Megalon). Shout Factory pretty much said out of the gate that they would aim to do things right instead and pretty much that's exactly what happened. The fact that we're down to just a handful of titles left to reissue shows it paid off.

And given the VERY unsettled/negative vibes that Trace and Frank in particular have expressed towards the revival to this day, this is very interesting:

I always felt like the experiment was going to be Kinga Forrester, who’s Dr. Clayton Forrester’s daughter and Pearl Forrester’s granddaughter. But when we were starting, right before the Kickstarter, I was planning on [original villains] Trace Beaulieu and Frank Conniff being part of it. We were planning on doing the Kickstarter video and we were actually planning their travel and I had written them into the script for the Kickstarter and so, it was going to be Forrester and Frank and Kinga—and also Mary Jo Pehl, who played Pearl. They were more like an ensemble and Kinga was more of a reluctant super villain-in-training.

And just before we shot the video, for different reasons, they couldn’t be part of the Kickstarter. Trace, Frank, Mary Jo, etc. And so, I had to kind of change my posture because I realized, “Oh, all-new people we’re just going to have to proceed with...” and lean more strongly on Kinga, Jonah Ray, and the ‘Bots. So I was really faced with that. I knew I’d have to get a second banana for Kinga, and I was already wanting to use Patton. He just dropped in and it was fantastic. As you can see, they’re like, unbelievable together. It’s really crazy how good he and Felicia are.

Have to wonder about those 'different reasons' there -- especially since Mary Jo is guesting in the new season (along with Kevin and Bill IIRC -- Rifftrax and MST3K have clearly worked out a modus vivendi, referencing each other's projects on Kickstarter, the Rifftrax ads in the Turkey Day streams, etc.)

One last big snippet -- I was very much wondering how they were going to do this:

Q: Given that the new series is on Netflix, and has no commercials or time constraints, I didn’t expect that it would still stick to being 90 minutes long, with three host segments in the middle, and even bumpers for commercial breaks. Why do that?

Hodgson: I love those little remnants that are in TV shows, like, they’re going to a commercial break. If you watch The Walking Dead... there are moments where you know it’s supposed to go to a commercial. You can feel it. And it doesn’t. But it’s a little reminder that, “Oh, they were going to go to commercial there.” I really love that. And I think it’s good for the viewer. It’s a little bit of a palette cleanser.

And it was also kind of a remnant from the original show that I was trying to send a little love tap to people who were longtime fans and watched the shows on VHS. And in the narrative of the show, Inga’s kind of maniacal and wants to blow up the brand, and so she’s using that to kind of reinforce that you’re watching this slick TV show, and they have a house band... they’re promoting it back to you as you’re watching it. You know?

good interview but i paused when the interviewer said this

I never really thought about how carefree Mystery Science Theater 3000 was

You should really just relax!

Thanks for that backstory on Shout Factory, Ned. I love that company so much it hurts (my wallet).

I watched MST3K Giant Gila Monster today on Netflix.
I am very fond of Trace's Crow, I love how cynical and almost-blue his material is.

More stories and things:

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/mystery-science-theater-3000-season-11-netflix-satellite-of-love-1202012740/

http://www.vulture.com/2017/03/mystery-science-theater-3000-joel-hodgson-jonah-ray-netflix.html

http://uproxx.com/tv/mystery-science-theater-3000-revival-profile-mst3k-joel-hodgson-jonah-ray/

Of the three, the Vulture one is the most extensive/interesting -- Joel and Jonah answering a slew of questions together. Scratching my chin a bit at this answer:

This is a heavily scripted show. Do you improv jokes at all?

Hodgson: We call that vamping. Vamping is creating the illusion that it’s spontaneous, but it’s written. To me, it’s like music — you have to know who says what or you’re gonna crash into each other. At the same time, it’s a living, breathing thing. There is room in there to have those moments. But I’ll say one thing: We didn’t put any fake laughs in. The only laughs that are in there are genuine laughs. And I think back in the day there are some fake laughs.

Though the Uproxx one is more intriguing than I thought -- it's an interview with all three of the new stars, so Vaughn and Yount as well, plus Joel.

This bit from the Uproxx one sheds rather more light on the whole question of what happened exactly with the first version of the revival:

“When we first started talking with Shout! Factory,” (Joel) says, “I think the idea was, oh it’s a reunion show. We will have Joel and Mike and all the different Mads and all the guys who put… You know we’ll have Josh (Weinstein) as Servo and Kevin (Murphy) as Servo and the two Crows (Trace Beaulieu and Bill Corbett) and it became a logistical headache. I remember doing a graphic with a parallel universe where there’s a Satellite of Love in one universe and there’s another Satellite of Love in another universe and that was how I was trying to figure out, how do we do this? How do we arrange two seasons with two completely different casts? And once I spent enough time with it, I realized it was impractical. Trace and I wrote like six pages, to try to justify how it all worked and it just was really hard.

“After that I just felt like, ‘Why am I doing this?’ We’ve had two iterations of the cast, let’s have a third one and then people can come back and visit, you know and do their characters and have cameos. So, that’s what I’ve been thinking about for the last seven years. It should be a new cast.”

Again, given Trace (and Frank's) clearer antipathy for what's resulted here...interesting.

Have either of those guys (Trace/Frank) gone into much detail or is it just a collection of passive aggressive tweets etc? I feel like I don't know anything but it makes me equal parts sad and curious to learn that there is an uncomfortable cloud of unclear resentment hanging over this whole revive...

Tweets but also random comments on their podcast etc -- it's not an endless litany or anything, more like when the subject comes up.

I would think all parties involved come off best by not airing out too many grievances

in other news i watched the rifftrax to Stone Cold starring Brian "The Boz" Bosworth last night and boy that movie was something else.

xpost -- I still find it interesting that the one person who hasn't had much to say since the sale is Mallon.

Trace and Frank were on the MST3K Reunion live special that Rifftrax did, right? And they were part of Cinematic Titanic, so I doubt they hate Joel or something. And Trace was also on their one-off "The Heat" commentary (w/ Josh!), though maybe that had more to do with them all being friends of Paul Feig. Either way I don't think they have any serious grievances that couldn't be resolved.

I think they were worried it was gonna be shit, and didn't want to get involved with shit. If it's amazing, or even just pretty good, I imagine there could be several cameos of them in Season 12.

Well, I think it's important to remember that both Cinematic Titanic and that _Heat_ thing already happened some time ago, then CT ended -- slightly murkily from what I remember -- and then a little later comes the announced reunion and all, which per Joel's comments we now know at least Trace was involved with to some degree in initial form before turning into what it is. I think there's a lot left unsaid happening, call it 'Minnesota nice' if you like -- and I think it's notable that Josh, who like Trace was there from the get-go, was definitely looking askance at things post-CT/when the revival happened. You're definitely right about the reunion special of course, though I imagine other factors were also at play. If anything when it comes to who gets along with who and how, I tend to see the Rifftrax team (counting Bridget and Mary Jo now) at the center, Joel and the new crew to one side (and if you want to, count in people like Paul Chaplin there) and Trace/Frank on the other, with the long overdue royalties to each of the original team members helping to at least keep things reasonably balanced.

Little io9 interview with Felicia Day: http://io9.gizmodo.com/mst3ks-new-villain-felicia-day-explains-how-a-simple-ac-1793696340

Never felt one way or another about Day but this bit speaks to my heart:

Bad movies are my favorite. I love bad movies. I actually read a study the other day that smarter people like bad movies and I felt really vindicated. Because I’d much rather watch a cheesy kung fu film from the ‘70s than any Oscar-winning film ever.

The study, whatever, but the last sentence there is gold.

Trace afaik seems pretty content w/his Mads shows and living back in Minnesota. (i'm guessing the new MST3K is L.A.-based? idk)

Felicia Day otm, Netflix having all those Shaw Bros films available recently was fantastic

Yeah, LA-based.

Anyway the official site is now up and running:

http://www.mst3k.com/

Including a debut of what's supposed to be a regular 'behind the scenes' thing with Joel:

http://www.mst3k.com/chat_with_joel_mst3k_season_11

This is interesting and makes a lot of sense:

L: How would you say riffing has changed over the years?

J: I think it's changed a lot. The thing that changed it the most, in my mind, was us doing those hundred Cinematic Titanic shows. Doing a hundred live shows really puts a really different spin on it. You really have to own it, because the audience is watching, and they're reacting to it in real time.

We're fortunate because we really made Mystery Science Theater in a vacuum, and it worked. People liked it. But doing it live puts a little bit more of a emphasis on the strength of the riffing. I think the difference, from my perspective, comes from my experience with doing those live shows.

And then, of course, another important aspect is the new writers, and the new people filling the show with ideas and riffs, and the performers. So I think from an editorial standpoint, I was bringing my experience of doing those hundred shows on the road, in front of different audiences. And then, you bring that knowledge together with these really great new performers and also really great writing staff, and then you just kind of go from there.

The whole chat is pretty good -- it's definitely the deepest I've seen Joel get in terms of dealing with fan expectation, trust in the process and the sense that the show really did meaning something *really* deep at its best, however interpreted.

All of this still doesn't skip over the many elephants in the room we've raised over the last eighteen months, but even so.

Joel's been really impressing me with the thoughtfulness of his interviews. This one hits the same highlights as the others but there's still some great stuff in there

http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/24/12266652/mystery-science-theater-3000-joel-hodgson-interview-comic-con-2016

Okay so...

Today was the sneak preview stream for backers and since I kicked in money after the fact to snag the first two KTMAs, meant I got access to the stream etc. Scattered thoughts, and allowing for the fact that this was the first episode:

* Riffing was pretty solid and at times very much on. Easily the strongest part of the whole deal. Not totally used to all their voices yet -- the new Servo/Crow voices are pretty serviceable takes on the 'standard' voices (Hampton Yount, who plays Crow, sounded both like Bill and Trace in a way), but sometimes all three of them blended together. Also Yount is kinda where Bill was when he started -- doesn't have the puppeting down in the theater fully when it comes to syncing the riffs, but everyone starts somewhere. Tom floating around at points...kinda gratuitous but hey. Gypsy cameos random but hey. Rock stupid movie, perfect material to work with, a couple of great deep-cut callbacks to the classic era, so that much is back and I'll be fine with checking out the other episodes for that reason alone. But that said:

* The skits etc....yeah, that's not so sharp. Way more than the actual riffing, you get a sense of a lot of self-consciousness happening that translates into a kind of forced manicness at times from the neo-Mads and a sort of 'we're aiming for a breezier version of sleepy-eyed Joel era' from the SOL team, and it's not really clicking for me. Again, may improve, but if this sets the general tone and stays there, that could rapidly get really grating. Nothing was really funny, maybe more smile-inducing at points, wince-inducing at others. Best moment is a return to the letters bits featuring, indeed, letters from little kids. That was always something I loved about the letters when they did them and I hope that keeps up. And EASILY the worst part was a skit involving a rap about monsters around the world which, just, no. Pure amateur-hour 'I'm a wacky fan at Comic-Con and I love TMBG and Jonathan Coulson and MC Chris and I think I can be a smoothie too' pain. I should have just fast-forwarded through that.

* As for the trappings: wide screen format's fine of course, also nice seeing a movie at full screen too. There's definitely a 'show more!' element going on with Moon 13 now, but the SOL bridge sure looks flat. Door sequence is cool, a neat reinvention that's a technical treat. The 'house band' in Moon 13 is random but gives an excuse for skull-wearing minions, with Har Mar Superstar as the vocalist. Having the 'commercial break' moments in the film works pretty nicely, it's less the skits and more halfway through each film stretch, and in a nice touch has the band playing arrangements of classic-era MST songs, though without announcing which so it's a good mental exercise for the obsessed fan (hi there!). And there's enough rough in-camera models and the like to make everything feel just so; if anything I was getting used to some of the new camera angles and the hand-held shots.

* They have cameos straight out of the gate but I won't say who -- good combination, though kinda wish it was a better bit.

* As for the opening and closing parts: the new full intro, once it starts, is fun enough, with Har Mar and Felicia Day doing the singing. And the 'love theme' variation at the end is a full new one -- and an actual orchestral arrangement, it turns out! Played by a Macedonian orchestra at that. As learned from the credits, which are long as hell now. (There's your difference from a 'put together with a small crew in Eden Prairie' to a 'filmed in LA' setup right there.) Unfortunately to fill out the time the love theme ended and then that god-awful rap played. (I assume they'll do a different song from the show for each episode.)

So yeah, it's MST3K: The Next Generation as I muttered way back when the Kickstarter began and there ya go. Now I should really just relax.

Separately, the Rifftrax crew have done another MST reriff, only this time it's Bridget and Mary Jo doing Angel's Revenge, which is a perfect idea:

http://www.rifftrax.com/angels-revenge

Oh and one other thing -- yes, the stingers at the very end of the episode are back too. And it's a perfect moment.

Wow. Thanks for sharing, Ned. A lot to mull on there. Guess I should, in the end, just give it a chance of my own, but good to be warned about things that might give me serious winces, will make it easier to push past them if so and try to appreciate the other stuff.

Is it cool for me to say that as long as the riffing is good, that's all I really care about? I mean, I'm happy to have Patton Oswalt on board, but the riffs are all I cared about re: this show in the first place.

ts: cringey self-awareness of new MST3K vs cringey oblivious parts of old MST3K

tbf I skipped most of the sketch scenes anyway unless there was singing or timetravel involved

I think the thing is that, divorced from the whole Vampira/Svengoolie etc. line of descent, ie the cultural familiarity that made the whole TV hosting/cheap station setup idea of MST immediately accessible, it becomes something where it's trying to compete with its successors as well as other approaches to movie riffing on YouTube etc. etc. It's a knowing anachronism, and that's just fine, but that can be a hard balance to maintain.

Is it cool for me to say that as long as the riffing is good, that's all I really care about?

Then you're set. I was trying to get a sense of the 'pool' of cultural references they were drawing from, and generally it felt more pop culture so far, not that I was expecting deep historical nerdery or the like. Again, first episode, and I'd like to see what ends up happening in the rest first. But I legit laughed at many points throughout, it was all perfectly comfortable. (Odd little bit now that I think about it -- there were a couple of moments when the riffs juuust anticipated the camera shot they were referencing by a hair. Something else to ascribe to getting used to the process, I figure.)

If I'm honest with myself, probably half of MST host segments - and nearly all of the Sci-Fi-era opening and closing ones - are pretty lame, with a lot of theater-club mugging overworking not-that-funny jokes. Buuuuuuut the other half are another story, generally lovably homemade and building on the characters' different voices in a way that really charms me, much like the core Muppets do. And the great sketches (pretty much all from the Joel+Trace+Frank era imho) are really great.

And yeah, this whole aspect of the show (along with the premise, and it even having hosts) belongs to the Vampira/Elvira tradition, so a certain campiness and inessentiality is sort of innate to it, but when it finds its groove I'm won over. YMMV of course.

I pretty much don't like any of the sketches in either era. Maybe one or two here and there, but it's such a low rate that after a while I always skipped them. I guess they were trying to match the low budget feel of the movies, but I'd prefer they also match the funniness of the riffs

Is it cool for me to say that as long as the riffing is good, that's all I really care about? I mean, I'm happy to have Patton Oswalt on board, but the riffs are all I cared about re: this show in the first place.

― some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Sunday, April 9, 2017 1:13 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

same -- i get Dr C's point about the good skits being "lovably homemade" and all, but i'm really just here for the riffs

I'm really not feeling this revival, but I suppose non-Netflix ppl will get to see this in about 6 months.

also there was a Sunday NY Times piece, and i am shocked that Minnesotans are not boycotting as this is being made in LaLaLand.

suppose non-Netflix ppl will get to see this in about 6 months

Is this how it works? I've never had Netflix, so I dunno how "exclusive" their content is.

i assume there will be DVDs eventually...

Oh, duh.

thanks ned. i trust your judgement on this thing.

http://netflixlife.com/2017/04/13/mst3k-return-netflix-time/