Taxes!

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Tad, sweetie, how much do you have to make in order to pay taxes?

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:08 (nineteen years ago) link

$7,951 and up and you have to file

kephm, Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I was owing a few hundred dollars because of federal self-employment taxes on the 1099 from my band, so I had to come up with all sorts of music-related deductions (all the cds I bought, gear, gas, rehearsal space food, etc.) to get in the red.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

(gross)-federal.

xpost

kephm, Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

i just got 5 bucks more on Telefile than what I calculated myself. sweet.

AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:23 (nineteen years ago) link

did you ask for your refund to be direct deposited jody? I did and it happened within the week! It was great!

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Thanks for the baseline! I searched all over the IRS site and couldn'd find it.

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:29 (nineteen years ago) link

goddamn it I wrote a big thing and it got POXY FULED

anyway, you wind up owing money this way:

if you're married, and you mark "married filing jointly" on your withholding forms at work, they withhold LESS money from your check than they would if you marked "single." this is because the tax system (wrongly, in almost all cases) assumes that if you're married and filing jointly, you're supporting your wife. If both people are working, you have to go through the two-earner, two job worksheet to find out what the difference is b/w what they'll withhold and how much taxes you will actually owe. This is almost always short though for some reason. (note: this is all only true for Federal. State, which is what I owe, doesn't bother to give you a nice worksheet to figure this out. They just say "fuck you", give you no tools to find out how much you owe, and then charge you when you're short. This is called "California is broke and squeezing you for money, bitches.").

If your income fluctuates from month to month because of overtime or bonuses or something, then God help you.


Being married sucks for taxes because of this, and also, this: say you make 70k. Say your spouse make 40k. If you're single, you pay the tax rate for someone making 70k, and your spouse would pay the rate for someone making 40k. But if you're married, you pay the rate for ONE income making 110k. Which is a higher percentage than the others. This means you pay more taxes when you're married than single people making the same money. This is called the marriage penalty and everyone thinks that they got rid of it last year. They did, but only for very low income people. The rest of the country (ie: the middle class) gets fucked.

kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:58 (nineteen years ago) link

but, thank god for schedule C. I got to deduct 3k worth of business expenses.

kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:03 (nineteen years ago) link

AKM makes a great case for why you should always elect to have taxes taken out at the single rate.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link

I always thought that was given.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I mean unless you have a bunch of kids.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:41 (nineteen years ago) link

If you have a bunch of kids you can claim them as dependents and your taxable income ends up being something like $2.45.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:42 (nineteen years ago) link

If you have a bunch of kids your chances of appearing frazzled on Nanny 911 also go up exponentially.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:43 (nineteen years ago) link

I owe $37.23. Bah. I hate that exhilerating crash and burn moment of the taxes where it seems it could go either way--$1,000 rebate! $500 loss!

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I've spent all week trying to whittle away a bunch of contract-work income so I don't wind up paying a ton; I'm down to around $900 out-of-pocket, which is nearly everything I have to spare. I really, really should have put teeth on the bullet and had an accountant do this. I'm fairly positive I could wipe out half of what I owe by folding in a bunch of perfectly-legitimate self-employment-type expenses, but I'm still at a loss as to how to work it -- barring a major mental breakthrough tonight, tackling this myself will turn out to have been a big mistake.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:54 (nineteen years ago) link

put a big ass amount on schedule C, file it, and pray

kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Nabs, can you conveniently forget to declare some of the income?

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:20 (nineteen years ago) link

I got an app $1100 federal refund but owe $991 to state and paid an accountant $100 so I think I came out ahead $11. This is even with like $7000 in deductibles.

h0t h0t h0rsey (Carey), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:23 (nineteen years ago) link

i have an awesome accountant. last year i had paid zero taxes -- was on unemployment for part of the year, and made about $20k from freelancing. my accountant got me a $1500 refund. this year half my income had been taxed, have had not, and he got me a $1200 refund. my girlfriend, however, did not get off so easy. she owes $6k thanks to the freelance lifestyle, tho, truth be told, it could've been worse. (my roommate, who makes far less money than her, owes $10k.)

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:44 (nineteen years ago) link

My taxes somehow worked out so that NYS owed me more money than I paid them. This seems wrong but I've been assured it's within the realm of normal. I'll probably get fucking audited. Which would be hilarious, I mean a person with $8000 taxable income abouts getting audited.

Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:48 (nineteen years ago) link

i'd represent you before the IRS, but someone who only has $8K in taxable income = CANNOT AFFORD ME BEEEEEEEEYOTCH

Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Somehow my state refund is actually bigger than my federal. Which isn't saying much.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 15 April 2005 02:13 (nineteen years ago) link

state gets refund, federal i owe bunches coz i didn't figure to add self-emp tax to my estimateds. PLUS i hadta pay a bunch of back self-emp from last year coz of it. bleh. if only i understood the deductions/se thing i woulda kept recipts and done the whole deal. now mournfully too late.

thankfully i make little enuf that this isn't massive chunks of change we're talking about yet.

grrr.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 15 April 2005 02:55 (nineteen years ago) link

G0|)|)4M FuXX0riNg $eLf-3MpL0Ym3NT taXXXE$!

nabiscothingy (nory), Friday, 15 April 2005 02:58 (nineteen years ago) link

If you pay for your own health insurance through COBRA, can you deduct the money you spend on that? I want to do that for next year -- do I need some kind of form or receipt?

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 15 April 2005 02:59 (nineteen years ago) link

I should add that JtM schooled me righteously in the need for directing spending to deductible things last time we caught up.

also how fucked up is mass in that you get taxed MORE (and w/o most deductions, no less!) on out-of-state "investment"!? they only let you take out special in-state deductions for it, insteada the gamut, so my education deduction (which is xo!@%$@#ing huge) does no good.

[on the health insurance tip -- i need to figure out how to make sure the plan is "through" the business or whatever. yeah -- a tax atty could actually have probably saved me $ this year. next time round...]

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 15 April 2005 03:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Since all of my income in the past has been 1099, I always deducted my health insurance premiums, which for a while were COBRA, when calculating AGI -- there's a spot for self-employed health insurance deductions. I'm still not sure if this is 100% right, but I've never been called out on it (probably because I've never made nearly enough to warrant an audit).

the krza (krza), Friday, 15 April 2005 03:06 (nineteen years ago) link

Also, nabisco OTM: fuck a self-employment tax with knives.

the krza (krza), Friday, 15 April 2005 03:07 (nineteen years ago) link

word to the wise -- the MOST LIKELY to be audited tax returns are those with self-employment income. even so, you only have a less-than-5% chance of being audited.

now, if you fuXors only had money i could make a mint representing yer asses come audit time :-)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 15 April 2005 03:08 (nineteen years ago) link

But they're not chosen at random, are they? I always thought you had to have self-employment income plus a bunch of business expenses, especially ones that involve your house or other things of that scale. Or is that totally wrong?

the krza (krza), Friday, 15 April 2005 03:13 (nineteen years ago) link

as far as i know, there's some sorta computer program-thingy that "randomly" chooses returns that are to be looked at by agents and possibly audited. the IRS keeps secret just WHAT criteria it uses.

that said, yeah if you are self-employed and have business expenses you stand a better chance than if you are just self-employed and have no expenses. also, anything having to do w/ "flow-through entities" (basically, partnerships, limited liability companies, and S corporations) get a closer look (b/c of well-publicized instances of outright fraud wr2 such entities).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 15 April 2005 03:17 (nineteen years ago) link

If you're filing as self-employed, you should be able to make a 100% above-the-line adjustment for your health insurance costs. So far as I can tell -- i.e., so far as I can tell after a week's worth of unprofessional double-checking of very long instruction booklets -- that's however you get your health insurance. So yeah, Hurting and Sterling: I think you can pretty much go ahead and lop it off the 1040 line. (As far as a "form or receipt" goes, it doesn't seem that you need one for filing; on the off chance that you got audited, all you'd need to do would be call up your insurer and ask them to mail you a balance statement for that year.)

Audit-wise: I decided (about sixteen hours ago) that unless you're actively trying to scam the IRS, they're not worth getting paranoid about -- not unless you're dealing with really significant sums of money. Which isn't to say that I don't believe they'll audit you, or that it won't suck. But I started thinking about it, and the worst-case audit scenario I can imagine is that I'm unable to back up a couple small claims, which ... well, if you're in the student/freelance range that I am, the worst this could possibly mean is that you do wind up having to pay that $1500 you shaved off of your bill, plus penalties. Which would suck in countless ways, but it's not exactly life-ruining.

(This will be hilarious in fall when I start the thread that goes "they audited me! oh shit! I have to pay $62,000 in penalties or go to jail! I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong!")

nabiscothingy (nory), Friday, 15 April 2005 04:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Audit-wise: I decided (about sixteen hours ago) that unless you're actively trying to scam the IRS, they're not worth getting paranoid about -- not unless you're dealing with really significant sums of money.

not to needlessly scare the shit outta anyone (b/c nabisco is basically correct) -- but (a) the IRS has been underfunded for a while now [thankee dubya!] -- there are abusers and scammers who are quite well-known to the IRS and defrauding the government of MILLIONS of dollars, but they don't go after them simply because they don't have the resources to do so; and (b) the IRS HAS recently been going after small-fry "cheaters" esp wr2 the earned-income credit -- not that there isn't fraud and abuse there, but going after them is a political decision by Treasury [thankee again, dubya].

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 15 April 2005 04:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Theoretically, do you think there could be any penalty for forgetting to file your state taxes, while diligently filing your federal? Just wondering . . .

Mary (Mary), Friday, 15 April 2005 04:29 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't know that the penalty's huge, Mary, but they will catch up with you and assess it; I know someone who didn't pay the City of New York taxes and got brought up on that pretty damn quickly.

Actually, Tad, it's funny -- you can practically see in the IRS documentation that they're trying to keep people from claiming the EIC. It took me hours to sort through vague, discouraging documentation to see if the dollar limit applied to adjusted gross income or flat earnings, and every other page seemed to be "DO NOT CLAIM THIS, SERIOUSLY, IT'S NOT FOR YOU, DON'T EVEN DO THE WORKSHEET."

nabiscothingy (nory), Friday, 15 April 2005 04:52 (nineteen years ago) link

mary: check out p. 6 of the NY tax return booklet -- basically, if you have $7.5K of NY source income you have to file an NY state return.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 15 April 2005 04:58 (nineteen years ago) link

you CAN file for an extension, but you STILL have to pay the tax (TODAY!) -- payment can't be delayed, just filing.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 15 April 2005 04:59 (nineteen years ago) link

NB my current suggestion for the simplification of the tax code is to just have a damn standard deduction for self-employed business expenses! I mean, steadily more people work regular-ass jobs but get non-employee compensation; it's awkward to expect them to keep track of expenses as if they're running a small business, or expect them to sit around calculating the percentage of their apartments that they use for work, or whatever else. They really should just offer a table of optional standard expense deductions for people doing non-employee work, at least under a certain dollar amount; if you're making less than like $15,000 off of it, there's no reason you should have to keep records on every time you bought a printer cartridge or whatever. Granted, this only applies to people who aren't selling actual goods, or traveling a lot, or whatever -- but given the number of writers, designers, programmers, etc. who are in pretty much that position, it'd be a damn good thing to offer. It'd also make the IRS's job easier, insofar as fewer people would have reason to try and cheat on itemized expenses, and fewer people would have anything substantial to audit.

nabiscothingy (nory), Friday, 15 April 2005 05:07 (nineteen years ago) link

What if a person, say, hadn't filed since that one time in '95 when they went out of their way to figure out how much they owed and realized they were owed $6 or something and didn't bother sending the form in?

What if that same person, flush from her recent successes, tried the same strategy in VA circa '96 and when a letter was sent to her, her mom sent them a letter back saying she was in Japan, and the taxman was not heard from again?

Mary (Mary), Friday, 15 April 2005 06:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Wait a minute . . . I'm supposed to pay city taxes too?

Mary (Mary), Friday, 15 April 2005 06:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, city taxes paid to the state. My NYC taxes were three times my basic state taxes!

nabiscothingy (nory), Friday, 15 April 2005 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link

i kind of want to have a bunch of kids just so i can get more out of my city taxes.

h0t h0t h0rsey (Carey), Friday, 15 April 2005 14:01 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd say OTM except you know I ain't putting no kids in these goddamn public schools around these parts.

Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Friday, 15 April 2005 14:58 (nineteen years ago) link

city taxes SUXOR ... that said, NYC residents get off relatively EASY. philly residents pay 4.5% to the city of philadelphia!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 15 April 2005 15:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Overheard today at a health fair: Should you be checking blood pressure on tax day?! Haha!

Overheard five minutes later at a different booth: Do you think I should get my blood pressure checked on tax day?! Haha!

Ahh, corporate humor!


Taxes fucking sucked it this year. Bad witholding = I owes .. uh ... LOT. But for the first time ever, I don't owe the city anything.

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 15 April 2005 15:31 (nineteen years ago) link

jesus you have to FILE your city taxes? thank god I don't have to do that. however, my city is completely broke so they'll probably start that soon.

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 15 April 2005 15:52 (nineteen years ago) link

I only have to file if my employer fucks up and doesn't pay them. Oh, looks like employer didn't withhold the right amount again ...

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 15 April 2005 16:03 (nineteen years ago) link

You don't have to file city taxes separately, Kyle -- it's just a little sub-section of the state filing. ("If you are a resident of NYC, see table X, etc...")

I'm annoyed at the paltry tuition deductions they allow, too; a $4000/year cap doesn't come anywhere close to reflecting the cost of higher education; it'd barely cover tuition and fees at a community college! (And lord, if there's anything people should be able to spend money on tax-free, it's education that will theoretically lead to their paying a hell of a lot more taxes in the future.)

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 15 April 2005 17:32 (nineteen years ago) link

not to mention that the student loan interest credit gets gradually phased out if you are single and earn b/w $50K and $65K, and if you earn more than $65K then you can't take that credit!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 15 April 2005 18:04 (nineteen years ago) link


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