Captain Marvel (2019), dir. Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck

.. what are you talking about?

green lantern vibes from this trailer

can't believe marvel studios blackmailed anthony hopkins into playing odin, wtf

"I suppose the change in recent years is that superhero movies are attracting good actors."

what do you mean by recent years? I would say the first example of "good actors" i.e. respectable by hollywood standards, in superhero genre is Jack Nicholson & Kim Basinger in 1989. Or is it that the Bat films of the 90s are an exception, surrounded by the likes of Spawn, etc?

I'd argue that the lure is an increase in both quality and pay. Like taking a role in a superhero flick probably isn't as much like begrudging busywork for a respectable actor as it was a decade and a half ago.

i hear the craft services table on these movies is fuckin lit

McRibs and Shamrock Shakes, year round.

Man, if that was on the table every day I would totally break into this movie star racket.

I'd have to think about it, but it seems (at least from memory) that in the (not too distant) past, "good" Hollywood actors were enlisted not for being good actors but almost as sort of stunt casting, like the hammy Hackman in Superman or a hammy Nicholson in Batman or a barely-there Brando in Superman. They weren't hired for their gravitas or whatever. In recent years, though, you've got respectable actors more or less literally going from winning an Oscar one year to starring in a superhero movie the next, or older movie stars like Douglas, or Pfeiffer, or Bening getting superhero movie roles that don't seem like easy paychecks or embarrassing slumming. They're being hired for their name, yeah, but also for their talents, not just as a novelty. So yeah, more or less what OL said.

I don't think it's even more or less literally at this point. Pretty sure Captain Marvel was the first project Larson nabbed after winning her Oscar.

And Cumberbatch went Oscar to Dr. Strange, right?

Were Boseman or Jordan nominated for the James Brown movie or Creed?

i'm not entirely following yr argument tbh josh but it's worth remembering that the 1978 superman and the 1989 batman were rare eruptions of comic-book content onto the silver screen and now there are like 15 superhero movies a year, so actors are gonna go where the roles are regardless of their pedigree

Also as just like a general thing to remind people who complain about comic book movie overkill, here's the complete list of theatrically-released Marvel feature films from the 20th Century (aka prior to X-Men in 2000):

Howard the Duck (1986)
Blade (1998)

Yes, she couldn't wait to sell out for the big dollars that would take her away from (checks notes) Kong: Skull Island

Cumberbatch was filming Dr. Strange when he didn't get the Oscar for The Imitation Game - previous to that he'd been playing Sherlock Holmes, Khan, a penguin, and a dragon, for fuck's sake.

xp bg otm - actors have pretty much always done stuff for money, superhero films are just where the money is.

within a few years virtually every actor of note or otherwise will have been in a superhero movie

Jake Gyllenhaal as Mysterio in next year's Spiderman movie.

(is there actually a statement from Hawke saying that he wouldn't play in a superhero movie? Considering some of the absolute shite he's been in, that's a bit rich)

like the hammy Hackman in Superman

I haven't actually seen Kevin Spacey, but I have seen Jesse Eisenberg, and he's definitely the hammier of him and Hackman. Now turning to the Joker we find...

...Joaquin Phoenix in a year or so.

Of course actors are going to go where the money is, but these projects don't feel like they are being done just for the money, unlike, say, what Jeremy Irons has been up to or Anthony Hopkins in Freejack, or something like that. These comic book movies are not exactly prestige films, but they're not bad either, and I would argue they are as much actor driven at this point as they are effects driven. Which, if I am getting at anything, might be closer to what I am getting at.

Chadwick Boseman is definitely an actor who's been swallowed by it (though who am I to judge?) - Black Panther 3 films in a row.

(lol I looked up Samuel L Jackson and Fury is barely a blip - he's been appearing in an average of 4 films a year for two decades now)

Not to mention those Capital One commercials (although I assume those are more of a passion project).

this is the Hawke quote of note:

"Now we have the problem that they tell us Logan is a great movie. Well, it’s a great superhero movie. It still involves people in tights with metal coming out of their hands. It’s not Bresson. It’s not Bergman. But they talk about it like it is. I went to see Logan cause everyone was like, “This is a great movie” and I was like, “Really? No, this is a fine superhero movie.” There’s a difference but big business doesn’t think there’s a difference. Big business wants you to think that this is a great film because they wanna make money off of it".

These comic book movies are not exactly prestige films, but they're not bad either

*cough*

xpost Counterpoint: Logan was pretty great.

I mean they're at least competent. They're not, again, Freejack.

I'm trying to think who, if anyone, in the MCU might count as bad casting. The closest I can think of, maybe, is James Spader as the voice of Ultron. At the least I think it was a surprising choice, no matter what one thinks of the results.

xpost You need a lozenge there, buddy?

sorry, was choking on Cosmic Rage Gem

Arguably all the big actors in small roles like John C Reilly as Screenwatcher Superintendant - it kicks you out of the film a bit.

Relevant:

You either die an elf or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain in an MCU film. pic.twitter.com/6y6B2Us5op

— TASK the World’s Most Interesting Geek (@UpToTASK) December 4, 2018

people got Very Mad at that extremely mild Hawke quote

I don't think anyone here got Very Mad when it was first litigated months ago. I for one agreed, and I'm an unabashed MCU stan.

“It’s not Bresson. It’s not Bergman,” Hawke continues, “But they talk about it like it is.”

do they

(I actually thought Logan was wildly overpraised but that's some serious strawman shit)

captain marville

it's very annoying that Josh didn't acknowledge this

it occurred to me that within a few years virtually every actor of note or otherwise will have been in a superhero movie

it's true, there are only 300 living actors in the world

I'd have to think about it, but it seems (at least from memory) that in the (not too distant) past, "good" Hollywood actors were enlisted not for being good actors but almost as sort of stunt casting, like the hammy Hackman in Superman or a hammy Nicholson in Batman or a barely-there Brando in Superman. They weren't hired for their gravitas or whatever.

the not too distant past of Tim Burton's Batman (1989)

In recent years, though, you've got respectable actors more or less literally going from winning an Oscar one year to starring in a superhero movie the next, or older movie stars like Douglas, or Pfeiffer

...as opposed to the recent years of Tim Burton's Batman Returns (1992)

Also as just like a general thing to remind people who complain about comic book movie overkill, here's the complete list of theatrically-released Marvel feature films from the 20th Century (aka prior to X-Men in 2000):

Howard the Duck (1986)
Blade (1998)

FP'd the absolute motherfuck out of you for racism

u r gonna have to unpack that one for me, my man

AFI-award winning actor Barry Otto, in the distant past of 1985:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mser-xg4lrY/hqdefault.jpg

Barry Otto, in the recent year of 1989:

https://fanfest.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/punisher-lundgren-1989.jpg

do they

there was a not-inconsiderable push to get Logan some awards consideration last year, no?

see also Wonder Woman

God, 'fondly' remember when a friend of mine got his hot little hands on a bootleg of Lundgren's Punisher at some convention, and sitting around watching this third-generation timestamped POS knowing full well that it was a POS but eagerly lapping it up because hey, at least we finally got something from Marvel.

(And subsequently being thoroughly unsurprised when the thing was released direct-to-video.)

direct-to-video

FP'd you again for exceptionalism

All sorts of Hollywood bullshit is nominated for awards every year. I don't see any major difference between something like, say, Training Day, and the more critically acclaimed superhero flicks

how quickly we forget jd salinger's son as captain america (1990), which i'm pretty sure got a theatrical release

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.internationalhero.co.uk%2Fc%2Fcaptainamericasalinger3.jpg&f=1

i watched that recently! i enjoyed it ... not as good as the corman fantastic four film but still worthy

matt salinger is a profoundly oaken screen presence tho

big time

FTR, I seem to have no problem with direct-to-video horror film releases from that era, but I apparently hold Marvel to a higher standard.

If we're opening the floodgates, though, leave us not forget this produced-yet-unreleased masterpiece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcpmM-eTESI

Ha, I see that it was already mentioned as I was composing my post. Of course it was.

still better than josh trank's effort

Well then how about this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNBRum247m0

hasselhoff was actually... okay in that iirc?

couple of things are getting scrambled up here --

* bresson and bergman as stand-ins for extremely serious, important makers of films that speak abt the human condition and have stood the test of time.

* the academy awards ("oscars"), an annual trade event where hollywood votes for its own and some other things; in some sense the equivalent of the "best southeastern regional concrete sales rep" but also sometimes a shorthand for high-quality work in and near a hollywood mode. bresson won no oscars; bergman won three plus a lifetime achievement one.

* moviegoers and critics who watch various kinds of movies, praising Logan as being a well-made genre picture with some good performances, and found room for it in end-of-year lists including oscar predictions (comparing it not so much to Moonlight etc. as to Alien Covenant and John Wick 2).

* ppl who primarily watch blockbusters and franchise stuff, who feel it is unappreciated as a Great Movie ("up there with Shawshank Redemption and Reservoir Dogs!"), and/or their avatars in print and web media whose role it is to generate endless content surrounding high-profile franchises, along the lines of "ten ways you didn't realize Logan was a secret western!" and "ethan hawke SLAMS superhero movies in major diss to fans!"

neither of these last two groups are talking about bresson or bergman, but hawke's quote is i think directed at the last group for giving some superhero movies the highest praise they have from their POV - they're talking about Logan as if it were a much better film because they don't watch many better films, in some measure because they've been crowded out of theaters. thus he may also be annoyed at the critical establishment for seeming to back them up and depriving attention from stuff that actually needed help at the box office. this would be a genuine problem for someone hawke-esque (if he were not massively rich, iirc through a stake in some franchise or other?) who wants to get tougher movies made and seen. but the bresson thing is obviously hyperbole and shouldn't bog us down.