The software fix to solve the unexpected nosedive problem in these planes had been expected in early January but the government shutdown reportedly "halted work on the fix for five weeks." pic.twitter.com/KDFwnuFIuX— Maddow Blog (@MaddowBlog) March 13, 2019
I'm gonna need some verification of these claims, but if the Federal Government shutdown did delay rollout of a software patch....*laughs bitterly*
― Anne Hedonia (j.lu), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 12:24 (five years ago) link
Also I don't think there is a head of the FAA right now. Only an acting administrator. An article I saw said that there were 5 complaints logged in a voluntary database against that model type and the plane nosing down. I don't know how relative that is against other complaints.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 12:58 (five years ago) link
(CNN) — US pilots who fly the Boeing 737 Max have registered complaints about the way the jet has performed in flight, according to a federal database accessed by CNN.In one of the complaints, a captain reported an autopilot anomaly which led to a brief nose-down situation -- where the front of the aircraft pointed down, according to the federal database. In another complaint, a first officer reported that the aircraft pitched nose down after the autopilot was engaged during departure. The autopilot was then disconnected and flight continued to its destination, according to the database.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/13/us/pilot-complaints-boeing-737-max/index.html
― omar little, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 14:02 (five years ago) link
canada joins ban
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 15:55 (five years ago) link
US ban now as well.
― ShariVari, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 18:40 (five years ago) link
This is as appropriate a moment as any to revive this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW-pFoYgaUs
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 19:08 (five years ago) link
update: I’m alive
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 13 March 2019 23:08 (five years ago) link
thank you president donald trump
― flappy bird, Thursday, 14 March 2019 02:51 (five years ago) link
i had the fun of flying on one of these this afternoon! i, uh, wasn't thrilled about it. looked like about half the southwest planes at lax were 737 maxes.
― circles, Thursday, 14 March 2019 03:49 (five years ago) link
had to happen and even if the authorities hadn't grounded them, the operations would have to do (by association, individual leisure travellers and corporate travel programs wouldn't fly any of those airlines at all)
― JD Salinger - King of Trainers (King Boy Pato), Thursday, 14 March 2019 09:14 (five years ago) link
Amazing reporting by @seattletimes on the fatal flaws in the Boeing 737 MAX's flight control system—and the regulatory capture within the FAA to hastily approve it. Essentially, this plane could try to crash itself because of a single faulty sensor.https://t.co/LdnnMhN1Gx pic.twitter.com/Z9Iwnz7YBs— Reed F. Richardson (@reedfrich) March 18, 2019
This still seems completely extraordinary.
― ShariVari, Monday, 18 March 2019 15:28 (five years ago) link
i am not aviation engineer, but "this plane could try to crash itself" seems... bad?
― i'm w/ tato, super hot AND weird!! (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 18 March 2019 15:31 (five years ago) link
No no, the pilots just needed to be told to switch off that part of the plane if/when it decided to crash itself, and if they didn't know how to do that, it was because they didn't buy the optional part of the safety manuals which explained this. Not at all Boeings fault, really.
― Frederik B, Monday, 18 March 2019 16:05 (five years ago) link
do you want to turn off The Medusa Touch suicide pilot option yes/no?
― calzino, Monday, 18 March 2019 16:08 (five years ago) link
it's incredibly horrifying and i mean horrifying.
― Hunt3r, Monday, 18 March 2019 16:43 (five years ago) link
boeing seems cool
Ethiopian Airlines and Lion Air didn't pay extra for Boeing's "upgrades" on communications, navigation, and safety features, so Boeing didn't warn them that the planes were prone to sensor malfunctions that would send them crashing into the ground. https://t.co/2Nvka4tNVI— Ben Taub (@bentaub91) March 21, 2019
On a plane that was prone misreading the angle of attack (and then overcorrecting), Boeing charged extra for the "angle of attack indicator" and the "disagree light"—features which "could have helped the pilots detect any erroneous readings." pic.twitter.com/DclKa8pOYo— Ben Taub (@bentaub91) March 21, 2019
And don't think for a second that this was a developing world issue. Major U.S. airlines also didn't buy these safety "upgrade" features, as they were not required by the F.A.A. pic.twitter.com/EhR21vuQMD— Ben Taub (@bentaub91) March 21, 2019
Boeing even charges extra for back-up fire extinguishers, despite the fact that "a single extinguishing system may not be enough to put out flames that spread rapidly through the plane." And you have no way of knowing which safety features your airline has bought. pic.twitter.com/8j4lV51FXM— Ben Taub (@bentaub91) March 21, 2019
― i'm w/ tato, super hot AND weird!! (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 March 2019 16:14 (five years ago) link
this all stinks of engineering/business management hell. I wonder how the AoA sensors can be so bad. They look pretty "dumb", which usually means they'd be more robust than a wiimote.
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 March 2019 16:24 (five years ago) link
i mean call me old-fashioned but i just don't think paid-for downloadable content should be a business model which should be applied to air safety
― i'm w/ tato, super hot AND weird!! (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 March 2019 16:28 (five years ago) link
new board description ^
― flappy bird, Friday, 22 March 2019 16:49 (five years ago) link
please don't put the weird EA-hating tantrum videogame lords upset that they have to pay for extra character outfits while also unable to resist doing so on the same level as this issue. this involves some hardware and has better, older analogues.
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 March 2019 17:08 (five years ago) link
then again, you may have just been playing off my wiimote comment. apologies.
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 March 2019 17:18 (five years ago) link
naw i was totally trying to gamergate boeing
― i'm w/ tato, super hot AND weird!! (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 March 2019 17:22 (five years ago) link
the FAA should drag the gamergate lords away from their current john wick number trailer, call the flight simulator a videogame, and enjoy how they badger boeing into a future clean safety record.
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 March 2019 17:30 (five years ago) link
horse armour fine whatever
paid DLC so my plane doesn't crash I draw the line
― PaulDananVEVO (||||||||), Friday, 22 March 2019 18:00 (five years ago) link
i am not aviation engineer, but "this plane could try to crash itself" seems... bad?― i'm w/ tato, super hot AND weird!! (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 18 March 2019 15:31 (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm
this is so incredibly fucked
― PaulDananVEVO (||||||||), Friday, 22 March 2019 18:01 (five years ago) link
that comment is actually bad because the same system that can crash the plan can potentially save the plane in some situations. it exists for a reason. the auto-pilot, -stabilization, -etc of aircraft is coupled to the evolution of giant aircraft, and you want those systems to exist the same way you want your car to be capable of 100 mph on flat land because that's a much lower speed going up a hill.
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 March 2019 18:17 (five years ago) link
The future is crowdfunded/upgradable DLC safety features during the flight booking process.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 22 March 2019 18:51 (five years ago) link
i had the fun of flying on one of these this afternoon! i, uh, wasn't thrilled about it. looked like about half the southwest planes at lax were 737 maxes.― circles, Wednesday, March 13, 2019 8:49 PM (one week ago)
― circles, Wednesday, March 13, 2019 8:49 PM (one week ago)
probably an 737-800. Can confirm all the SWA 737 MAX flights in/out of LAX were cancelled one week ago.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 22 March 2019 18:53 (five years ago) link
This and the other comments about sensor triple redundancy in the article best sum up the engineering problems with the plane. The problems are more fundamental than "dumb planes are safer".
As R. John Hansman, a professor of aeronautics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told me in a March 28 interview,"As I understand it, at high angles of attack the Nacelles -- which are the tube shaped structures around the fans -- create aerodynamic lift. Because the engines are further forward, the lift tends to push the nose up -- causing the angle of attack to increase further. This reinforces itself and results in a pitch-up tendency which if not corrected can result in a stall. This is called an unstable or divergent condition. It should be noted that many high performance aircraft have this tendency but it is not acceptable in transport category aircraft where there is a requirement that the aircraft is stable and returns to a steady condition if no forces are applied to the controls."
"As I understand it, at high angles of attack the Nacelles -- which are the tube shaped structures around the fans -- create aerodynamic lift. Because the engines are further forward, the lift tends to push the nose up -- causing the angle of attack to increase further. This reinforces itself and results in a pitch-up tendency which if not corrected can result in a stall. This is called an unstable or divergent condition. It should be noted that many high performance aircraft have this tendency but it is not acceptable in transport category aircraft where there is a requirement that the aircraft is stable and returns to a steady condition if no forces are applied to the controls."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2019/04/02/mit-expert-highlights-divergent-condition-caused-by-737-max-engine-placement
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 18:15 (five years ago) link
got off a 737-800 a few hours ago and my knees are still feeling it. screw safety, what these things need is 3 more inches of legroom
― PPL+AI=NS (imago), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:38 (five years ago) link
I feel your pain as a 6'4" guy. Legroom is driven by the airlines' seating configuration, not the manufacturer. Our discomfort is another row or two of ticket revenue. NPR has an article that suggests nothing will change. Would like to see officials load their own families on a 90-second evac trial, and then praise seating arrangements.
― the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:23 (five years ago) link
Note to self - fly airbus
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190403/p2g/00m/0bu/002000c
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 5 April 2019 07:08 (five years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamliner-production-problems.html
Not great.
― ShariVari, Saturday, 20 April 2019 20:32 (five years ago) link
https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/how-the-boeing-737-max-disaster-looks-to-a-software-developer
not great.
― Burt Bacharach's Bees (rushomancy), Saturday, 20 April 2019 22:36 (five years ago) link
Boeing Has So Many Grounded 737 Max Planes Waiting to Be Fixed They're Parking Them in the Employee Parking Lot
― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Tuesday, 25 June 2019 00:26 (five years ago) link
In a bit of good news, one company is interested in buying quite a few of them.
Boeing on Tuesday won its first order for 737 Max planes since the jets were grounded worldwide in March after two fatal crashes. The vote of confidence from British Airways’ parent sent shares of the manufacturer sharply higher.International Consolidated Airlines Group, or IAG, signed a letter of intent at the Paris Air Show to order 200 Boeing 737 Max planes.
International Consolidated Airlines Group, or IAG, signed a letter of intent at the Paris Air Show to order 200 Boeing 737 Max planes.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/18/british-airways-parent-places-first-new-order-for-boeing-737-max-since-grounding.html
― nickn, Tuesday, 25 June 2019 01:05 (five years ago) link
For Seattle ilxors, you can view the parking lot in the jalopnik article from the south park bridge. It’s amazing, maybe 30 of them sitting along the river, iceland air and thai smile and turkish and so many others i don’t recognize
― alomar lines, Tuesday, 25 June 2019 02:52 (five years ago) link
Boeing 737 MAX 8 Likely Grounded for Rest of 2019 After New Concerns Raised
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Sunday, 30 June 2019 20:42 (five years ago) link
Some of the language in that article is a maybe a little bit hyperbolic.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 30 June 2019 21:04 (five years ago) link
This is a bit more measured, Boeing still don't come out of it very well at all:
https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/faa-and-boeing-initially-disagreed-on-severity-of-catastrophic-737-max-software-glitch/
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 1 July 2019 08:32 (five years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-crashes.html
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 21 September 2019 22:19 (five years ago) link
That’s a good read.
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 22 September 2019 15:20 (five years ago) link
Although it doesn’t really offer any solutions- just a very well researched and well written description of the problem. I’m mildly suspicious of the expert graybeards from central casting that he quotes throughout the piece, because it all seems a little one-sided, but then again the Indonesian and Ethiopian crews that are still around to talk are apparently not allowed to.
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 22 September 2019 16:06 (five years ago) link
Boeing pilots' messages on 737 MAX safety raise new questions
― Book Doula (sleeve), Sunday, 20 October 2019 21:35 (four years ago) link
https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/
What is your own personal practice on flying Boeing aircraft now?“When I worked on the 747, the 767, the 777 in Everett, those are beautiful planes. And the people there fully understood what it took to build a safe and airworthy aircraft. I hate to throw the entire label over the whole product line. But as far as the 787, I would change flights before I would fly a 787. I’ve told my family — please don’t fly a 787. Fly something else. Try to get a different ticket. I want the people to know what they are riding on.”
“When I worked on the 747, the 767, the 777 in Everett, those are beautiful planes. And the people there fully understood what it took to build a safe and airworthy aircraft. I hate to throw the entire label over the whole product line. But as far as the 787, I would change flights before I would fly a 787. I’ve told my family — please don’t fly a 787. Fly something else. Try to get a different ticket. I want the people to know what they are riding on.”
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 3 December 2019 20:30 (four years ago) link
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a30470973/boeing-737-max-employees-emails/I don’t want to read this. I’m just posting it here
― El Tomboto, Friday, 10 January 2020 22:01 (four years ago) link
"This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys.”
― The Squalls Of Hate (sleeve), Friday, 10 January 2020 22:04 (four years ago) link
But the the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee provided excerpts of those messages to Bloomberg News that un-redacted the Indonesian carrier’s name.“Now friggin Lion Air might need a sim to fly the MAX, and maybe because of their own stupidity. I’m scrambling trying to figure out how to unscrew this now! idiots,” one Boeing employee wrote in June 2017 text messages obtained by the company and released by the House committee.In response, a Boeing colleague replied: “WHAT THE F%$&!!!! But their sister airline is already flying it!” That was an apparent reference to Malindo Air, the Malaysian-based carrier that was the first to fly the Max commercially.
“Now friggin Lion Air might need a sim to fly the MAX, and maybe because of their own stupidity. I’m scrambling trying to figure out how to unscrew this now! idiots,” one Boeing employee wrote in June 2017 text messages obtained by the company and released by the House committee.
In response, a Boeing colleague replied: “WHAT THE F%$&!!!! But their sister airline is already flying it!” That was an apparent reference to Malindo Air, the Malaysian-based carrier that was the first to fly the Max commercially.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-14/lion-air-idiots-sought-more-max-training-boeing-thwarted-it
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 15 January 2020 22:43 (four years ago) link
is there anyway to check (in advance of booking) which type of aircraft will be used on your flight? would not fancy going on one of these for say, oooooh, about 10 years?
https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/9/22165956/boeing-737-max-flight-brazil-gol-airlines
― sir kieth scamper QC (||||||||), Wednesday, 9 December 2020 21:59 (three years ago) link
Gol Airlines told the publication it plans to use the 737 Max in regular service starting later this month, and passengers who don’t want to fly on the plane will be able to exchange their tickets.
all airlines need to do this imo
― sir kieth scamper QC (||||||||), Wednesday, 9 December 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link