Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

Chris Fujiwara (sounding a little prim), here.

Gamera Vs. Guiron is one of my most underrated favorites, with the Gamera song, Cornjob and the Zabriske Point ref. The "Hello/Thank You" scene with the mothers is my #1 funniest MST3K moment.

We both idly comment on stupidity of movie showing and the commentary from Joel + robots. Go back to reading book/half-watching.

15 minutes later - 'actually, this isn't that bad'

10 minutes later - we have both decided this is the best show ever created

I salute you!

I am still in fact missing Gamera Vs. Guiron, though happily I've seen it a number of times -- that along with Gamera Vs. Gaos, It Conquered the World and four season six entries are now the only things I'm missing from season two on...

ignoring realities of production? tedium?

I think Fujiwara scores some good points, but yes of course we must give no quarter to a fun-hater.

The show made me laugh but I can't love it.

(...when -- you want -- the flavor of bacon -- in a dip.)

The thing I like abt Fujiwara's thing (and yes I do realize what a humorless piece of writing it is [but bits make me laugh out loud so eh]) is that it's about giving a shit, about not letting something slide. He thinks the whole enterprise was deeply, offensively unfunny, and that seemed like a rare and valuable enough er perspective w/r/t ile & mst.

I have a strong affection for cranks and fuddy-duddies.

Now, railing about MST3K in its own style -- responding to it and heckling it -- that could be clever enough to be worth the time.

And when they *did* do that, as happened with the Little Golden Statuette thingummybob, it actually undercut a lot of the claims MST3K could make to somehow being a subversive force battling against whiteelephantHollywoodbullshit because the special arguably ended up being essentially more hype for the Oscars and the Hollywood machine.

IIRC, the central reason for Fujiwara's groaning and moaning about MST3K was due to the lack of respect they were giving to these oddly wonderful artifacts suitable for voyeuristic delectation. (Fujiwara once wrote up a list of the best movies of 1953 and included *Robot Monster* as his tenth best -- and seriously, the only reason I can imagine ANYONE doing that is to prove some banal point about hegemony and the canon blah blah blah FIGHT THE POWER!!! etc. As bad movies go, there are so many better ones, like *Monster A Go-Go* for starters) This is baloney on many levels. "MST3K involves people making fun of bad movies" is a good shorthand description of the show, but only that: most of the time, Best Brains aren't "making fun" of the movies (most of the riffs' humor are totally incidental to the badness of the film), nor are most of the films they riff on aren't really *bad.* A good chunk are, most are just utterly indifferent, and few are pretty good for what they are (say, the Lassie or Godzilla movies.), and a movie's badness is no guarantee of an episode's goodness. (I think *Monster A Go-Go* is probably the worst thing I've ever seen and most of the time BB was just struggling to say something, anything about it.) Most of the time I attribute BB's claims to a movie being bad as just a bunch of hyperbole for comedy's sake. (On the other hand, if *I* had to watch most movies with the kind of attentiveness *they* did in creating MST3K, I think most films would probably come up short, anyway.)

And ANYWAY, I knew a lot of hardcore MSTies who argued the 'essence' of the show wasn't the riffing but the relationship between Joel/Mike, the 'bots and the Mads.

Well, yes. This is why I stopped watching during the Sci-Fi years.

"He died as he lived: Loving his work."

"That's 40 pounds of butt in 30-pound butt capacity pants!" - Mike

"That may not really be Chinese."

Tep: I don't think it's the same at all (effort of making a film vs effort of making comments while watching films). It's just that renting B-movies with friends was already a popular pastime with people I knew before I ever knew of this show. MST3K seemed less fun than doing it in 'real time' with your own friends if that's what you want to do. I didn't think it added much to the experience or to the movies. And I guess I just didn't think they were that much funnier anyway (e.g. the "dead elf" line Ned quoted).

And their parody of Behind the Music with "The Band That Played California Lady" in Track of the Moon Beast is one of their best skits.

I think that's a fair thing to say. I remember when us AOL MSTies would get together and riff on Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band or A Star Is Born, what would happen *was* more hilarious than the average episode. But one might argue that by watching Best Brains riff on, say, The Incredible Melting Man, the pleasures we might get personally or collectively riffing on the movie would not only get partially replaced by the pleasure of THEM doing it, but also by the pleasures of indulging in the shared culture of MSTiedom -- learning and trading BB's lines, say, much like we're doing here.

An aside: I suppose someone like Fujiwara might say YOU SEE YOU SEE YOU'RE GIVING UP THE FRUITS OF YOUR OWN CRITICAL ACTIVITY FOR THAT OF OTHERS though I'm not sure how different this is from, say, trading lines of Horace or Milton, or using something Benjamin or Aristotle once said for your own nerfarious purposes. Or how it prevents us from "playing the home game," if you will.

This lays me out... also another thing my friends and I say - "this is how much pure cocaine I would need to __________"

Slab Bulkhead
Fridge Largemeat
Punt Speedchunk
Butch Deadlift
Bold Bigflank
Splint Chesthair
Flint Ironstag
Bolt Vanderhuge
Thick McRunfast
Blast Hardcheese
Buff Drinklots
Trunk Slamchest
Fist Rockbone
Stump Beefknob
Smash Lampjaw
Punch Rockgroin
Buck Plankchest
Stump Chunkman
Dirk Hardpec
Rip Steakface
Slate Slabrock
Crud Bonemeal
Brick Hardmeat
Whip Slagcheek
Punch Side-iron
Gristle McThornbody
Slate Fistcrunch
Buff Hardback
Bob Johnson (no, wait...)

Here are a few highlights of the administration of Rutherford B. Hayes: In 1877, Reconstruction ended, and Jacques Derrida was named Secretary of Linguistics, and the era of Deconstruction began and continues to this day. Thomas Edison invented the pornograph, beginning the Age of Pornography. President Hayes then passed the Hayes Act, started the Hayes Office, won fame as an American lyric tenor, and became Archibishop of New York in 1919.

After he retired, he founded the original ZZ Top with James Garfield and Chester Allen Arthur; shocked the world with a publicity stunt when, on a bet, he made a tent out of the underwear of William Howard Taft and lived inside for a full year; and later, Hayes retired from the stage and did a series of memorable character parts in Hollywood. Who can forget the time he was slapped by Jacqueline Bisset in the 1971 Universal movie, Airport ? And then, after inventing ringworm, Hayes died. His last words were: "I have only one life to live -- let me live it as a blond!"

THE END.

Oh, and his blood type was AB.

THE END.

Not many *good* films, but it's not impossible to riff on a good movie: M Sampo once said that La Jetée and The Wizard of Oz would be pretty prime experiences. But in general good movies are too engaging -- too distracting -- to use for MSTing.

Richard Basehart is good.

Would anyone like some soup?

ROMMEL'S BUDDY (extolling the married life): "Listen, have you ever seen me so happy?"

JOEL (grouchily deadpan): "Yeah, but you didn't know I was watching."