second that it's not Cleese or Idle, who were the most gregarious and immediately noteworthy members of the group.
I'll give you Cleese, but how is Eric Idle more immediately noteworthy than the rest of Python? I would say Chapman and Palin are much more likely to have been favourites than Eric Idle - Chapman's like the Python fan's Python and everybody (in the UK at least) likes Michael Palin.
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Saturday, 25 January 2020 21:03 (four years ago) link
obsessively rewatching "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" I had no idea about anybody but Cleese and Idle.
this speaks to a very idiosyncratic viewing of this film alone, from which it would be folly to assume other viewers' perceptions. let alone to extend any assumption to the other films, performances, books, recordings and their primary output of a TV show, the final series of which did not even include Cleese.
― don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Saturday, 25 January 2020 21:25 (four years ago) link
The 'star' of the film is Graham Chapman! Same with "Life of Brian". I'm not even sure what Idle does in "Holy Grail" that is especially memorable?
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Saturday, 25 January 2020 21:56 (four years ago) link
brave sir robin ran away/bravely ran away away
(minstrel = neil innes, maybe that's where the feud began)
― mark s, Saturday, 25 January 2020 21:59 (four years ago) link
so it's a funny scene but the minstrel is what makes it funny
― mark s, Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:07 (four years ago) link
It’s hard to tell any of them apart in holy grail with the beards and helmets and such
― culture of mayordom (voodoo chili), Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:19 (four years ago) link
idle was my favorite when i was little -- loved the smarm
ken buddha: a smile, two bangs and a religion
― mookieproof, Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:19 (four years ago) link
Thinking about Mattress Store and giggling to myself
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:22 (four years ago) link
I can see not especially taking note of Chapman in Grail, as he's m/l the straight man, and everyone else plays multiple roles (even Innes and Gilliam).
― don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:22 (four years ago) link
well maybe it wasn't the movie specifically but more the cultural millieu. i didn't see the tv series (maybe i saw "and now for something completely different"?) but i knew about the parrot sketch and the bookshop sketch and cheese shop sketch and the argument sketch (god do i fucking love the argument sketch), which are all sort of variations on the same thing, and the whole cringe comedy character of that imperious argumentative twit clicked with me so hard. also cleese was fucking tall so he stood out.
eric idle was just fucking loud in ways that were highly noticeable by teenage amabs.
― revenge of the jawn (rushomancy), Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:24 (four years ago) link
I still can't tell Palin and Idle apart
― Frederik B, Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:27 (four years ago) link
the other thing about chapman is that he could sort of kind of act a little? cleese is cleese, idle is idle, chapman is king of the britons or a very naughty boy or, you know, whatever role he's playing.
― revenge of the jawn (rushomancy), Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:28 (four years ago) link
Palin can act too imho.
Doesn't Idle collect the dead in Grail?
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:30 (four years ago) link
Idle was kind of the first Python to break out in the States (hosted SNL etc.), and he and Cheese had the most visible post-Python careers over here.
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:33 (four years ago) link
sure, palin can act, but in general i feel like there's a perfectly good reason chapman kept getting cast as the lead
― revenge of the jawn (rushomancy), Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:33 (four years ago) link
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain)
can't tell if that's ducking autocorrect or if you were drumpfing him
― revenge of the jawn (rushomancy), Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:35 (four years ago) link
That sounds about right. Cleese can act, he was quite established before Python. Idle can't and Jones couldn't.
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Saturday, 25 January 2020 22:52 (four years ago) link
Idle was kind of the first Python to break out in the States (hosted SNL etc.)
Palin hosted as many times (4), but, yeah, Idle was in early - twice in the 1976-77 run. Also introduced Kate Bush in late '78!
I loved the Idle rants as a teenager... Bleedin' Watney's Red Barrel, etc...
― Michael Jones, Saturday, 25 January 2020 23:03 (four years ago) link
Didn't know that Palin hosted, and yeah that Cleese thing was autocorrect.
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 25 January 2020 23:14 (four years ago) link
His family's surname was originally Cheese, but his father had thought it was embarrassing and used the name 'Cleese' when he enlisted in the Army during the First World War; he changed it officially by deed poll in 1923.
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Saturday, 25 January 2020 23:18 (four years ago) link
the parrot sketch and the bookshop sketch and cheese shop sketch and the argument sketch (god do i fucking love the argument sketch)― revenge of the jawn (rushomancy), Sunday, January 26, 2020 9:24 AM (two hours ago) I still can't tell Palin and Idle apart― Frederik B, Sunday, January 26, 2020 9:27 AM (two hours ago)
― revenge of the jawn (rushomancy), Sunday, January 26, 2020 9:24 AM (two hours ago)
― Frederik B, Sunday, January 26, 2020 9:27 AM (two hours ago)
seems like maybe rusho couldn't really (or Chapman) either tbh :)
Idle's ambient profile was probably higher in the US due to the Rutles spin-off doco and sitcom appearances and more American-audience-friendly films than the others (plus eventually moving there).
― don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 26 January 2020 01:39 (four years ago) link
Tbh, don’t remember Rutlemania ever really breaking out in any significant sense in the American market.
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 January 2020 01:44 (four years ago) link
gilliam worst. not really a python tbh.
idle next worst, despite good turns and writing plenty of the good sequences. introduced innes and generally a shitty influence, and intrinsically unfunny in any post python effort
cleese limited to cleese but cleese properly deployed is amazing and untouchable
palin likeable, talented, works well with others, adaptable, prone to corny when not countered
jones just off the wall enough and beats palin by doing a lot of what the former does but less predictably and often with a bit of genius skew.
straight man chapman the least straight of all, the quantum leap of illogic that drove connections to new direction that otherwise wouldve been sketches no more inspired than any oxbridge efforts at zany or class or pun sketch comedy.
anyone who argues against python in general because of their ubiquity amongst teenage boys or whatever can do the same thing that anyone who rejects the beatles on the same lines- die roaring
― Catherine, Boner of JP Sweeney & Co (darraghmac), Sunday, 26 January 2020 01:50 (four years ago) link
<3 u deems
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 26 January 2020 01:51 (four years ago) link
Good post
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 January 2020 01:52 (four years ago) link
No way to argue honestly
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Sunday, 26 January 2020 02:11 (four years ago) link
thread is a decent argument vs Python fans
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 26 January 2020 02:25 (four years ago) link
idle did the songs, the skits i mentioned i think of as all basically cleese joints (i mean cleese was in all of them, right? i don't remember super good)
thread is a decent argument vs Python fans― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius)
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius)
"a decent argument vs python fans" is like "a decent argument vs dream theater fans", seriously it's not even necessary, we know already
― revenge of the jawn (rushomancy), Sunday, 26 January 2020 02:56 (four years ago) link
Tbh, don’t remember Rutlemania ever really breaking out in any significant sense in the American market.Inasmuch as SNL hosting was being cited as evidence of his prominence, since All You Need Is Cash was commissioned by Lorne Michaels & basically made as an SNL lead-in or filler or w/e aiui
― don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 26 January 2020 03:38 (four years ago) link
Right, well aware of this, but that is more a proxy for the SNL/Michaels/Idle connection, it’s not like people came for the Rutles and stayed for the Idle.
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 January 2020 03:44 (four years ago) link
The Rutles special legendarily the lowest rated program in the nation when it aired.
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 26 January 2020 04:06 (four years ago) link
but still, about same size as SNL audience
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 26 January 2020 09:01 (four years ago) link
p sure most of my high school class saw it
ha, did not know this. nearly everything famous about SNL is completely opaque to non-US humans.
― don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 26 January 2020 09:43 (four years ago) link
I saw it when it aired, as did some of my school friends, but it was more from a Beatles angle than a Python slant. Bought the album and studied it. There was a ton of stuff in the accompanying booklet so it was almost like watching the show again, which I was finally able to do when decades later I got the DVD at J&R Music World.
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:31 (four years ago) link
People knew about the Pythons from PBS, in New York WNET/13, where the show aired on Sunday evenings, usually paired with various other British sitcoms or shows such as Rising Damp or The Two Ronnies and kids would talk about it in school on Monday morning. https://www.nytimes.com/1975/09/10/archives/monty-pythons-fully-different-new-series-plus-tom-mix-and-fellini.html
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:37 (four years ago) link
There was always Rutland Weekend Television, I don't think that's ever been repeated though, so it might be terrible, the Neil Innes bits are good. Also it's never been released on DVD, I wonder if that's Idle's decision? I've got the album though!
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:37 (four years ago) link
(xp) You got Rising Damp? Cool.
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:38 (four years ago) link
at the time i loved rutland weekend TV bcz of this guy:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hU0QZQRTNr0/hqdefault.jpg
― mark s, Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:40 (four years ago) link
= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Woolf
https://www.nytimes.com/1975/03/15/archives/bbcs-monty-python-surprise-hit-on-public-tv-serious-doubts-at-first.html
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:41 (four years ago) link
(xp) Harold Pinter's old mucker.
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:48 (four years ago) link
...still alive, 90! And many more, Henry!
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:49 (four years ago) link
Have to admit at the time I never really got into Rising Damp, or The Rise and Fall of Reginald Perrin for that matter. It was only when I got to college (François Truffaut to thread!) and saw Billy Liar as well as Saturday Night and Sunday Morning and rewatching A Hard Day's Night, the latter with the similarly named Norman Rossington, did I start wondering what this Leonard Rossiter guy was about.
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 January 2020 13:04 (four years ago) link
Hollywood should do a remake of "Rising Damp" with Ralph Fiennes as Rigsby.
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 January 2020 13:06 (four years ago) link
Just now learned that the common thread between Monty Python and Rising Damp was Ian MacNaughton.
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 January 2020 13:06 (four years ago) link
"Grrrrrrreat. We're losing the lion. Rewrite. Lose the lion everyone. That's fantastic!"
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 January 2020 13:10 (four years ago) link
In my mind's eye I have over the years minimized Eric's contribution to the Rutles, extending his silencing from the epicenter of Ollie Halsall singing his character's vocals, preferring to think of them as an offshoot of The Bonzos (see my current controversial screenname) as well as Patto/Timebox.
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 January 2020 13:12 (four years ago) link
I used to have at least some of the Rutland Weekend Televisions as video files, assume they're still accessible on the Internet somewhere. It was OK, mark otm about Henry Woolf
― GK Chessington's World of Adventure (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 26 January 2020 13:13 (four years ago) link
Forgot to mention Fans of the Rutles and Rockpile, are you familiar with a band called Fatso?
― TS: Kirk/Spock vs. Marat/Sade (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 January 2020 13:15 (four years ago) link