Abolish the Police

oh ok so we should build a neoprimitive society with 7 billion people on the planet, that should go well

well the 19th century was when much of the world's population urbanized

this isn't a reformist thread

NV otm

they are agents of capital and should be shown no remorse or mercy

as i said, the police as constituted today are very much a function of the capitalist societies that introduced them, form something else by all means but the police institutions we have were rotten at conception

and they don't keep us safe, either

this seems as good a place as any to vent: my local solidarity rally tomorrow is not allowing anti-police signs. I wish them the best with it but I'm going to pass. Small city in Canada.

there's probably other threads for cautiously liking the police tbf

Without first dismantling capitalism, there's no practical difference between abolishing the police and privatising it.

I don't think short-term commitment to abolition can be used as a gatekeeping device for conversations about how to move forward from where we are now.

it is true that we must first seize the means of production before the withering away of the state can occur

anyway the specific bone of contention was that the police are not a natural offshoot of the state of nature who must always be with us as sinful fallen humans

thank you, yes that is what I was saying

You know that old canard, "It's easy to criticize the police but you'll soon change your tune when you actually need them"? Well, I think I've said it here before but whenever I've actually needed the police - break-ins, muggings etc - they have proved to be completely useless and generally given the impression they couldn't give a flying fuck.

Add laziness and ineptitude to their list of sins.

here here, NV. I will have to work to have this discussion more, locally, soon.

ok just spitballing here but what if we abolished the police

hm interesting expand on that

the first time i got burgled the first 15 minutes of interaction with the cops was persuading them we hadn't done it ourselves cos we lived on a "bad" estate

love to burgle myself

in the US last year, the $ seized by cops in (largely illegal imo) forfeitures was greater than the amount lost in actual burglaries

I’m seeing people ask things like “But if there are no police who will go after RAPISTS???” and well I have some very bad news for those folks

— andi zeisler (@andizeisler) June 5, 2020

the only problem w not having any cops is who will we arrest the cops with

Thank you, sleeve.

I prefer the defund/shrink approach to abolish.

man alive i know you're p well read so i'm surprised to see you attack police abolitionism with...the way most police abolitionist orgs describe the path to abolishing the police

I’m definitely not well read and um, yeah, exactly.

yes, whether you see it as a reform/end in itself or as a step on the path to abolishment it's an excellent set of demands people should be able to get behind

I don't know a single person who has ever had a positive experience with the police

Part of public support for the police is misplaced liking of actors in endless cop shows, the most insidious form of propaganda out there. Abolish TV studios

endless cop shows, the most insidious form of propaganda out there

otm. going all the way back to The Andy Griffith Show and Dragnet.

and Deputy Dawg

anybody want to comment on the abolishment and replacement of the Royal Ulster Constabulary?

fine idea. I endorse it.

mostly "lol, fuck the RUC"

It was weird to open this thread and not see a gang of yank libs calling abolitionists immature dumb idiots who are probably 11 years old or something but I take that more as a sign of the moment than any kind of indication that this isn’t Chinatown

anybody want to comment on the abolishment and replacement of the Royal Ulster Constabulary?

This was a Good Thing and ultimately necessary; the RUC as a ‘brand’ was toxic for too many normal people by the GFA

Even American police forces have nothing on those guys.

came up with more ideas for police reform that will be as ineffective as anything proposed by 8 Can't Wait pic.twitter.com/eK9Aj6KpMA

— ben wasserman (@benwassertweet) June 4, 2020

thoughts and prayers is a weak ending, "make guns too big to hold" and "no ice cream before bed" have I Think You Should Leave vibes tho

yeah, i would like to remove thoughts and prayers from the platform

no fuck it abolish the police

anyone wanna give me talking point to use on a friend who thinks that defunding the police and dismantling the unions "sets an anti-labor precedent"

(note: he is a 50-something hippie lifelong bus drive diehard union member who puts labor first)

I have to admit I have a tough time on that point bc it feels like teachers' unions will be next in line

If we abolish the police wouldn’t they just be replaced by private security forces who would not even be *nominally* required to protect the safety of the public (vs private property)?

ask your diehard union friend whether it is more important that unarmed black men die or that effectively addressing their murders "sets an anti-labor precedent", because he has to recognize that these are the choices. it might resonate to ask "which side are you on?"

I think we need to transform how policing works and many of the social problems we see as police issues should be handled by social workers. Military training of cops needs to be banned outright; de-escalation must be required.

I think we should create a model of criminal justice that emphasizes rehabilitation and reintegration into society. Everyone who is released from jail should have a job lined up with a living wage.

I think a lot of things. One thing I don’t think is that we should have a weaker public sector.

btw, I helped to organize my fellow school bus drivers from an non-union shop into a unionized bargaining unit.

Maybe existing police unions should be dismantled because they support a horrific status quo, who knows. Police abolition seems like a meaningless phrase to me because there are rapes and murders in america and we need to have someone address these issues.

the tru pro labor version is that cops are class traitors who suppress other workers.

^ yes

it would probably violate various laws to eliminate police unions but they could be expelled by their affiliates and lose resources. i can't see how that would harm teachers or other public sector unions in any way.

do other unions actually kill people? i mean, not through negligence. like in their day-to-day

yeah and it's not just the fact of killing people it's that the union is used to defend this behavior through paying for lawyers for criminal and trial board cases, bargaining for agreements that help police avoid any other accountability, resisting any positive change in department rules, and making contributions to anti-worker candidates for office. all of the benefits of being labor with none of the solidarity.

benefits to the individual cops, i mean, of being organized

how awful do you have to be when fucking ICE is like "whoa cowboy, simmer down a bit"

https://archive.ph/6Jlo0

New details about police activity after lawmaker shootings raise questions about response

The Minnesota Star Tribune found that Brooklyn Park police waited more than 60 minutes to enter the Hortman home and that several law enforcement agencies were unaware of the situation for hours.

By Jeff Day and Ryan Faircloth

From the first 911 call, moments after Minnesota state Sen. John Hoffman and his wife, Yvette, were shot at their home in the early morning of June 14, police knew a masked gunman was impersonating an officer, had targeted a politician and was on the move.
Yet it would take 10 hours for law enforcement to systematically alert lawmakers to the exact nature of the danger they faced. Communication across a patchwork of agencies was also spotty, leaving some officials unaware of the threat for hours and raising questions about whether the suspect, Vance Boelter, could have been caught earlier.
In at least one instance, police didn’t follow their own procedures when they responded to attacks on the homes of lawmakers. The shootings killed Rep. Melissa Hortman and her husband, Mark, and wounded the Hoffmans.
A Minnesota Star Tribune investigation has found new details about the law enforcement response to the shootings, including:

--The initial 911 call, made at 2:05 a.m. by the Hoffmans’ daughter, Hope, included the fact that the suspect was disguised as a police officer and wearing a mask.
--In a deviation from department policy, Brooklyn Park police waited more than an hour to enter the home of Melissa Hortman after watching Mark Hortman get shot in the doorway.
--New Hope police didn’t immediately communicate an officer’s interaction with Boelter, which occurred after the Hoffmans were shot but before the Hortmans were killed.
--Some police officers and legislators weren’t made fully aware of the threat for several hours.

Police are worthless and serve no beneficial function

Uvalde settled any debate over the necessity of police in their current form, but there's something awful about this case where abolishing the police would also have made the killer's tactics much less effective (see also all the psychos impersonating ICE)

pigs are the most sensitive babies in the world:

https://bsky.app/profile/joeyneverjoe.bsky.social/post/3mc77vzzcqc2g

•••
MESSAGE FROM THE
LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
The Department is aware and deeply concerned about an incident that occurred at a local coffee shop in the city of Norwalk on Friday, January 9th, in which a deputy, who had stopped for coffee, was deliberately served a cup bearing a hand-drawn image of a pig, which is commonly used to demean law enforcement.

This action was extremely offensive, inappropriate, and unacceptable. The deputy quickly reported the incident to the store manager, who advised that the matter would be investigated.
Upon learning about this incident from the employee, the Sheriff immediately escalated the matter and contacted an individual in the coffee company's corporate security division to formally raise concerns and to ensure accountability.

In addition, the Sheriff spoke directly with the deputy to check on his well-being, convey his full support, and make it clear that disrespectful actions will not be tolerated against our personnel.

Our deputies serve this community with professionalism, dedication, and commitment, often under difficult and dangerous circumstances. Our deputies are part of the community and deserve to be treated respectfully and with basic human dignity. Acts that promote hostility and division toward law enforcement undermine community trust and public safety.

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department

the Sheriff spoke directly with the deputy to check on his well-being

https://bestfriends.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/Pig-groups-Geneser-Doogie-Napping-1370MW.jpg?SojWjBV82Z9V1MSzcTGIWBDv6V.ipSuf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtXnIBMLFa4

aw those are some cute pigs!

the Sheriff spoke directly with the deputy to check on his well-being

unfortunately he's currently in a mental hospital after his girlfriend called him "Babe"

That'll do, deputy.

Incredible piece.

https://archive.ph/jglmo

yes. it ought to reach as wide an audience as possible.

Well it is being circulated by conservatives.

and they are welcome to die in a fire as per usual

otm

haha I just learned the term "violence workers" and am gonna adopt it

i think a David Roth coining?

‘Abolish ICE’ gets most votes in Chicago snowplow-naming contest;

https://apnews.com/article/abolish-ice-chicago-snowplows-name-contest-829790b38ca68b1c521b351095491562

‘Stephen Coldbert’ also a winner

i'm sure city officials thought they'd get "snowplow-McSnowplowasaur". without looking, i'm guessing snowplow-mcsnowplowasaur was in the top 10. but cool of them to respect the vote!

When asked whether he was reticent about the potentially prickly response to the name, a spokesperson said that “Abolish ICE” was the runaway winner, adding, “The people of Chicago clearly have no issue with the name of this snowplow.”

good for them! Minnesota state government chickened out

I have been nominating Abolish ICE in MN for a few years now.