he actually supposed to be Izzy Mandlebaum

I think Jerry's (and Elaine's) smugness is there to distract you from the utter horribleness of George's life (and the utter unbelievableness of Kramer's): has there ever been a more repulsive character on a sitcom?

Seinfeld has ruined me for all other sitcoms: I can't watch any of them without getting bored. I think it's actually gotten better in syndication: the episodes I thought were lame first time around seem funnier to me now. There's also a tragic, hopeless undercurrent to the humor that's perfectly disguised by its breeziness, tho it's probably fatal to take Seinfeld too seriously.

Also, after watching it 53,000,000 times I think I've started to fancy Elaine a bit.

Me too, even her dancing doesn't dissuade me.

I fancy her because she has the same maniacal grin that I have. Fancying yourself: classic or dud?

classic as long as you tickle yourself and others watch ;)

Who do you think I am, Martin?

no. but you are N's long lost sister.

Ally in self-fancying SHOCKAH

So that's where my brother went. My mother always told me I had an older brother that she sent away, because she hates boys...

well tell yr momma N is a GROWN MANG now!

Trust me, if she gets wind of the tickle thing she'll never take him back.

ok then I'll tell her and then she can send you here. i can tickle ya ;)

You really want to tickle N. though, admit it.

Classic.

Seinfeld: totally classic. I watch the reruns quite regularly.
I thought this show was unsurpassed in american comedy,
until I started watching Home Movies (on Cartoon Network).

But I'm not entirely without complaint.

They truly should have found someone else to play Seinfeld. In a stellar
comedic cast he stood out as a rank amateur, often botching the
proceedings. The scripts stroke his ego shamelessly, pairing him with
an endless parade of beautiful women and sparing him the severest
discomfort. And his standup was horrible, an unintentional joke.

But he couldn't stop the show from being brilliant! Starting about
halfway through the second season, the writers were so great at
layering several absurd storylines, culminating in these chaotic
comedic orgies that can only be compared to end-of-episode
climaxes in _Fawlty Towers_. How come more sitcoms don't
have this format, instead of a boring linear string of
sometimes-funny wisecracks? Mindless jokes _Seinfeld_
decidedly IS NOT.

Thing is, the early episodes were pretty crappy - that's partly
why I think people don't like them, they got a bad taste in their
mouth early on and never gave it a second chance.

Also, the episodes are highly self-referential, so you have
to watch it from the opening credits, or half the jokes don't
make any sense whatever.

And woah, are there actually people named Shoshanna?
I know a Shoshanna and I thought that her name was a
bizzare hippie side effect.

Oh yeah, and the sight of a pimp Kramer being
arrested for assaulting a prostitute = one of the best
endings ever.

How did I get mixed up in this?

ps. please no one tickle me. My sister used to do it to me till I was a gibbering wreck. I can't even remember what I'd done wrong.

It's cos you're TOO MUCH THE SEXY, N.

UR sick.

Shoshanna is the Hebrew form of Susannah.

I am sick. You're totally right. That doesn't take away the fact that you're my long lost brother and that Julio wants to tickle you, N.

There is no better modern illustration of the timelessness of the ancient story of the Emperor's New Clothes than the fact that Seinfeld was a success.

D-U-D garbage!!!!

wow

SEINFELD ROXX U R ALL GAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, what is UP with all the Seinfeld hate??!!

yeah, I mean it was a sitcom, I thought it was pretty funny, but we are talking about a sitcom here. there are no big threads about according to jim.

YET!

(ominous music)

''You really want to tickle N. though, admit it.''

Ally with my right hand. N with my left.

ally with my right hand 'n' with my left.

rjg!?

?????????

Me before reading this thread: :)
Me after reading this thread: :(

richard- you're sick.

the laughter has been sucked out of this thread.

gimme a break.

Wait, RJG wants to tickle me now too? What is going on here?

"Seriously, what is UP with all the Seinfeld hate??!! "

I don't know, but there is something seriously wrong with anyone who can't see the utter genius of Seinfeld.

I hate when people say things like that. Taste is taste. I have a totally instinctive revulsion to this show, a revulsion I probably should analyze -- but that would necessitate actually watching it, and life seems too short at the moment.

"I hate when people say things like that. Taste is taste."

yeah, I know.

i think it's funny but i think everything's funny

(even will and grace, i lied abt that upthread so as to look cool)

haha on the doc abt brit sitcoms just now they said solemnly "the last of the summer wine is unique among sitcoms"

which is true: i don't think it's funny really

ok a bit

I think Last of the SW is funny and Seinfeld is funny.

Seinfeld gets criticised for its nihilism because it verges on excessive depth - for America. (The characters try to do volunteer work and fail, Elaine campaigns for equal opportunities because big breasted women are favoured over her, people turn to Judaism 'for the jokes' - the pathos of the attempt towards something that circles back into bourgeois stasis is nearly voiced. But whereas on Seinfeld minor characters suffer, on 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' Larry David is the middle class child abuser, the fake Jew, the wife beater.)

http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/ now has ALL the episodes transcribed.

How can anyone really vote for anything lesser than A FUCKING

GODLIKE GENIUS!

Seinfeld seriously ruined me for ALL other "sitcoms", they just all really suck in comperison.

this will obviously interest no one but i'v got every single episode on tapes. I'm sure i'm not the only one. My giant beloved Seinfeld shelf.

< / brag >

"I am a fancy boy."

All you hataz are NOT SPONGEWORTHY.

I sort of find the show shrill and insulting, like a Jewish/New Yorker version of blackface minstrelry. George is like the Sambo of the UWS.

Perhaps if I watched it enough and could get into the rhythms, pick up the nuances (if there are rhythms to be gotten into and nuances to be picked up) and noticed the characters interacted with but ultimately transcended such carcicature, I'd like it better.

I get this sense that people (who watch Seinfeld) are flattering themselves in this perverse and counterproductive way by imaginging themselves to *be* these grotesque caricatures, like it gives their self-involvement some kind of splendor by association. I guess in this way it is a complex mixture of self-hatred and aspiration and conforming to others' expectations and occasional transcendence of these things as "Will and Grace." That show makes me uncomfortable too, but my superficial sense is that the staging and line delivery is better in "W&G" (I don't know about the writing).