Abolish the Police

xxxxxxp "cool" would be my preferred response but wcyd

same for my posts too of course!

Terrific posts, in orbit.

silby I can't remember what it was c2007-9 I mostly just lurked. maybe I can blame the state of ILM back then, I'm bitter I was too intimidated by certain elements to post much. I know a healthy person wouldn't care about that now. twitter phase in between didn't help matters either

I've only been intentionally antagonistic here to people defending abusers, I'm not sorry about that. I'm sorry I come across like that in general. how do people not be angry all the time

we're all angry all the time. imo this forum is here to give us a place to talk and not yell at each other, it's a good exercise.

Ty, Alfred! It's been an outlet for my generalized rage.

it's important to remember that a "mental health worker" isn't a panacea if we still hold the same beliefs and values as a society; they will just be called to enforce the values of the society that credentials & hires & evaluates them.

In a way it's almost like having an "Abolish Private Insurance" campaign instead of "Medicare For All." Private insurance is shit and everyone knows a million reasons why it's shit and has personal bad experiences with it, but if you just suggest taking it away as the goal in itself instead of making the replacement the focus, that won't be very popular.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, June 14, 2020 1:49 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

same with capitalism *ducks*

one of the alternatives that is consistent with “abolish the police” is the libertarian dystopia where everyone buys their own private security force. approximately zero people want that, but it’s not even obvious whether, for example, a moderate amount of defunding will just be compensated for with higher private alternatives

Terrific posts, in orbit.

^^

man alive needs to explain to me how the immediate improvement to the lives of millions of POC (including students) by abolishing the police is outweighed by the few thousand annual school encounters that necessitate calling the police. I don't get it.

Especially given that policing in schools is part of the problem. It's not like the way police operate in the public school system is some kind of exception to the way they operate in the rest of society.

Looking forward to (and I say this with affection) to Left's "abolish money" post.

did I forget to post that one

side note: man alive, I don't agree with your take here but I appreciate that you're posing a legitimate question.

That said: Lots of institutions have their own security that do not have the sweeping power of the police state, school-to-prison pipeline, upholding centuries of racial oppression and so on. I have more faith in a potential alternative than what we have right now, since the reforms that have been tried for.. years? decades? haven't made any meaningful change, due to police unions and the gang mentality discussed above that destroys anyone on the inside with a conscience.

But the protests did get 50-A repealed in NY, which potentially could be a step forward. (Only one step, and maybe they'll find a way around it; like shutting off body cams before arrest, police could start destroying their own records in anticipation of lawsuits).

The protests, and the long-term organizing of coalitions like Communities United for Police Reform!!!! There's like 60 orgs signed onto this and they've BEEN winning major victories in police accountability and community safety for years. Their work is what made this moment possible!

@Left might save everyone some time if we got a list of stuff u would not care 2 abolish

xp true true

Incredible #BlackTransLivesMatter rally in Brooklyn, America today

This is what solidarity looks like! We need some of this in the UK ✊#BlackLivesMatter #TransRightsAreHumanRights 💕 https://t.co/2KTcJNkOF4

— Helen🧜🏻‍♀️ (@mimmymum) June 14, 2020

Several thousand New Yorkers dressed in white have taken over several blocks of Eastern Parkway in solidarity with Black trans lives pic.twitter.com/PgmTzwuwVC

— Jake Offenhartz (@jangelooff) June 14, 2020

It’s funny how the word “defund” sets people off. It’s almost like it gets to the heart of the matter.

— Doug Henwood (@DougHenwood) June 15, 2020

Their work is what made this moment possible!

Organizing stepped up considerably after Ferguson, MO. Without the organizing groundwork laid in advance, the reaction to George Floyd's death would have looked a lot more like that of Michael Brown's. My hat off to the many hundreds of people who put in the thousands of hours preparing, so this mass movement could coalesce as quickly and strongly as it has in the past weeks.

And another tip of the hat to Occupy Wall Street for training a new generation in activism.

pic.twitter.com/T2srKF2uih

— Harley Jarvis (@hamtarohoe) June 14, 2020

apropos of nothing

After Columbine over 10,000 school police officers were hired just in case a school shooting happened. Two decades later, they haven't stopped a *single* school shooting. Instead they've arrested over 1 million kids, mostly students of color, for routine behavior violations. https://t.co/DKoJE9LL3e

— Samuel Sinyangwe (@samswey) February 23, 2018

Today in Charlotte cops arrested people who were providing support to protesters who were released from jail. Adding this to the list of reasons to #DefundThePolice. pic.twitter.com/xXyBgLHUPR

— nyc law grrrl (@nyclawgrrrl) June 19, 2020

Heard yesterdfay that there are police in a lot of schools in Scotland thanks to the way that a fund that was supposed to be helping with poverty etc was handled.

Also that at least one school in Richmond California managed to get rid of SROs in their school or at least the process is underway.

Thanks for posting that xyz. I got lost in the story and looking up more about it, and by the time posted about it on the police brutality thread I forgot that I saw it on ILX first.

So fucked up, attacking the people who are there to do the work that the state refuses to do

ACAB

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/two-met-police-officers-arrested-over-photo-of-murdered-sisters

Let's face it though, how many countless times has this happened in the past?

KL - no worries.

Seeing how these protests (however brutal for the participants) are having a positive impact (on policy and some of the primaries) is a wonderful thing to see.

Warning, shit is vile:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/25/wilmington-racist-police-recording/

Don't know the city, but a video is circulating on FB of a line of cops unloading their guns on a seated homeless guy. I didn't have the stomach for the audio.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/kelowna-rcmp-surveillance-video-wellness-check-lawsuit-1.5623215

abolish the RCMP

thought that said abolish the RHCP at first and was about to otm you

why not both?

272 uniformed NYPD cops have filed for retirement from the day of #GeorgeFloyd’s death to June 25. That’s 49% more than retired this time last year.

In other words, protesters will lower the NYPD headcount before Mayor de Blasio or the NYC Council does. https://t.co/1lVnbRGWCB

— Ash J (@AshAgony) June 27, 2020

Don't know the city, but a video is circulating on FB of a line of cops unloading their guns on a seated homeless guy. I didn't have the stomach for the audio.

― k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), T

I don't have FB, but I think this is Albuquerque and possibly two years ago iirc. Though of course, its entirely likely you're talking about a different broad daylight filmed execution

so has Minneapolis abolished the police?

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/26/884149659/minneapolis-council-moves-to-defund-police-establish-holistic-public-safety-forc

they voted to take steps towards putting a measure on the ballot that would amend the city charter to replace the fuzz. I have no idea if it'll pass, but I'm eager to vote for it.

can we abolish both cops and anarchists

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/06/30/44008034/we-must-end-the-conditions-in-chop-that-are-leading-to-violence-and-death

https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/protesters-say-aurora-pd-used-force-at-elijah-mcclain-vigil.html

URL is misleading, Aurora PD definitely used force

pic.twitter.com/IMhLkrIGrc

— Noname (@noname) July 2, 2020

love it

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-i-became-police-abolitionist/613540/

That's a compelling piece. I think the question I have is: why isn't the movement to fix the things that make the police necessary instead of to focus on abolishing the police? I don't need to abolish the police in my neighborhood, because they aren't a problem in my neighborhood, because my neighborhood has the resources it needs to begin with - I don't live down the street from a chemical plant, there are job opportunities for people like me, our housing isn't crumbling, we have access to groceries, etc.

I know the movement answer, because it gets repeated ad nasueum: take all the money from police budgets and fund the other stuff. But there isn't *anywhere close* to enough money in police budgets to fund all the other stuff that you would need to make the police superfluous. Even Alex Vitale acknowledges this. Police are a woefully inadequate and at times harmful means of controlling the damage from racial and class inequality, but they are not the primary cause of the racial and class inequality imo.

yeah unfortunately we gotta defund the military too

"abolish capitalism" a bit more of a stretch goal imo

why isn't the movement to fix the things that make the police necessary instead of to focus on abolishing the police? I don't need to abolish the police in my neighborhood, because they aren't a problem in my neighborhood

because police are just the society-facing side of the larger incarceration system, which is racist by design. in poor black neighborhoods, police routinely drive in and search all the young black men. it's routine - the people often just raise their arms and surrender as soon as the cops show up, because they know what's about to happen. of course you don't see it from that angle - police aren't a problem in your neighborhood

my whole point is that police aren't a problem in my neighborhood *because* my neighborhood has resources, is not poor, etc.

Because it's almost as though police don't cause poverty, they are just there to manage it

I mean, South Africa has underfunded police and high poverty. The result is that there's a booming private security industry, which is probably even less accountable than police.

it's almost like there are dozens of things that need to be abolished or at least fundamentally rethought and this is the one people are talking about because there's urgency and movement behind it specifically