I had heard about this cult before and it was possibly on here somewhere.
― Rik Waller-Bridge (jim in vancouver), Friday, 26 June 2020 20:38 (four years ago) link
anyone watching the nxivm doc on HBO (the Vow)? It's good, though I'm not completely sold on the way they've decided to tell the story, just because it's confusing (it's completely non-linear so it's difficult to tell at what point various things are happening; and a lot of stuff was filmed in real time as the nxivm shit was starting to go down)
― akm, Monday, 7 September 2020 15:42 (four years ago) link
I started in on this, but I'm not sure if I'm going to last all 10 episodes.
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 12 September 2020 01:44 (four years ago) link
It's slow going but I think the back half is starting to pace itself well, digging deeper back into Raniere's early days. I will forever be thinking "Hm, well, convenient" when it comes to Mark/Sarah being the heroes of their own stories (and apparently Catherine O might have been more involved than she lets on, per a comment on the Sup Doc episode about the first half of the series) but for all the behind the scenes shenanigans alone, an amazing resource, and just reconfirming how incredibly low-rent Scientology the whole mess was. On a simple filmmaking note, the just queasy enough colors and graphics layered behind the many phone conversations and recordings are pretty well done.
Anyway, Clare Bronfman sentenced today; Raniere's sentencing is in a month:
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Heiress-faces-sentencing-in-upstate-New-York-sex-15607913.php
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 22:03 (four years ago) link
Also, there is deep truth here:
possibly the most sinister part of NXIVM was making everyone move to albany pic.twitter.com/s2nR8S6gmD— Talia Lavin (@chick_in_kiev) September 28, 2020
Two posts in response when I shared that:
At one point Keith equates Albany w/ Ancient Rome and I was like OK— Mark Coleman (@MarkColeman57) September 29, 2020
A friend of mine who lives in Albany has said, “it’s a great place to live, but I wouldn’t want to visit there.”— Bagel Strike! #338 (@bagelche) September 29, 2020
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 22:09 (four years ago) link
More details on the sentencing:
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-clare-bronfman-nxivm-sex-cult-keith-raniere-sentence-20200930-erflkamkqje6teovbg7bpwq44u-story.html
And a comment from Barbara Bouchey, who was featured in the most recent episode:
Barbara Bouchey, formed Raniere girlfriend, gave a victim impact statement today. She recalls the legal battles she fought when she broke up with Raniere. She says those legal battles were funded by Bronfman. She had to move to the west coast from Saratoga because of everything pic.twitter.com/gu7LomTLWv— Giuliana Bruno (@GiulianaBrunoTV) September 30, 2020
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 22:13 (four years ago) link
Bouchey is hoping to get her good name back. She is pleased with Bronfman’s sentence. She never expected 7 years— Giuliana Bruno (@GiulianaBrunoTV) September 30, 2020
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 22:18 (four years ago) link
It is, BTW, really worth reading that Daily News link for the details about the woman whose immigration status she essentially threatened her with and what happened in court today -- Bronfman's just as petty, bigoted and manipulative as any number of people I could guess do the same things to non-citizens, Mexicans or otherwise, in this country.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 22:22 (four years ago) link
seemed like this was getting alluded to in the last ep:
In fact, Salzman owns Nxivm, and Raniere has nothing to do with it, officially. He received no salary from Nxivm, nor possessed a credit card, A.T.M. card or a car. He told me, “I don’t pay taxes because I live under the poverty level.” I asked him where he got his clothes, which require money to buy. He answered that they usually appeared. Pointing to the polo shirt he was wearing, he said, “until I put this on this morning, I don’t think I’d worn it before, and I didn’t know about it.”
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 6 October 2020 16:01 (three years ago) link
"Who put this food in my mouth?"
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 6 October 2020 16:28 (three years ago) link
One documentary draws to a close, another rises.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqcNp4UFnnM
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 14 October 2020 23:53 (three years ago) link
And get ready for season 2!
https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/hbo-the-vow-part-2-nxivm-docuseries-1234807751/
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 16 October 2020 17:47 (three years ago) link
So The Vow ended and we'll get Nancy in Season 2 and maybe even Keith complaining directly. But -- surprise surprise, and I honestly was surprised -- the Seduced documentary series that started last night is handling all this far more interestingly and far more skillfully overall. Though the focus is on India Oxenberg's story there's a lot of other voices being brought in, as well as some thoroughly concrete detail via interviews not only from journalists on the story (including, notably, the Albany Times-Union team that did work back in 2012) but a variety of psychologists and experts on cult/manipulation tactics and more. Indeed, the way the first episode was structured often clearly functioned as a way to be a curriculum to show how those tactics work and are employed, but in a way that didn't feel pedagogical. It also just laid out the basic early history of Raniere's MLM and eventual launch of NXIVM more concretely and the whole thing was punchier, crisper, way less meandering (and will only be four episodes long).
Interview with India Oxenberg here also has a very interesting section about said other series:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-socialite-india-oxenberg-escaped-the-nxivm-sex-cult-and-leader-keith-raniere
Q: I’ve watched Seduced and The Vow, and The Vow is sort of the Mark Vicente show, while this one is more focused on your story and DOS. What is your relationship with Mark Vicente? Because in Seduced, and from what I’ve read about NXIVM, he was essentially one of the people controlling you and ordering you to do things while you were in the cult.A: I think you’re kind of spot-on. I just want to be careful about what I saw about The Vow, because I want to be respectful of their project since my mom is in it, as well as other women who stuck their neck out and were incredibly brave to speak out. To me, they give the wider strokes of NXIVM whereas our show goes deeper into what it felt like internally to be there. It’s less about the details of NXIVM, more about the experience, and is more human. And I don’t have a relationship with Mark. I do with Sarah (Edmondson), and I have plenty of friends I speak with who have left NXIVM who I speak to regularly. Mark, I don’t. I have some mixed feelings about that as well.Q: About what happened between you two while inside NXIVM?A: Yeah. Some of it happened inside, some of it happened with some of my friends, and I wasn’t pleased with the way they were treated as subjects in the documentary (The Vow). There were things that made me cautious about who I was going to trust again. You go through a shedding process, and once you’re done, you realize that the people who are still there are your real friends.
A: I think you’re kind of spot-on. I just want to be careful about what I saw about The Vow, because I want to be respectful of their project since my mom is in it, as well as other women who stuck their neck out and were incredibly brave to speak out. To me, they give the wider strokes of NXIVM whereas our show goes deeper into what it felt like internally to be there. It’s less about the details of NXIVM, more about the experience, and is more human. And I don’t have a relationship with Mark. I do with Sarah (Edmondson), and I have plenty of friends I speak with who have left NXIVM who I speak to regularly. Mark, I don’t. I have some mixed feelings about that as well.
Q: About what happened between you two while inside NXIVM?
A: Yeah. Some of it happened inside, some of it happened with some of my friends, and I wasn’t pleased with the way they were treated as subjects in the documentary (The Vow). There were things that made me cautious about who I was going to trust again. You go through a shedding process, and once you’re done, you realize that the people who are still there are your real friends.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 19 October 2020 21:21 (three years ago) link
we watched the investigation discovery 'the lost women of nxivm' -- p good, more lurid than the vow complete w/ theorizing the cluster of ladies who had lived w keith to die from cancer could have been via his poisoning them w rat poison
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 24 October 2020 17:06 (three years ago) link
i mean this is more christian than "personal growth" but holy fuckhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w--j_hnoDVI
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 26 October 2020 19:19 (three years ago) link
“with the simple push of a button remove all negative thoughts”
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 26 October 2020 19:20 (three years ago) link
https://www.inspirationcube.com/
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 26 October 2020 19:21 (three years ago) link
Keith R had some words the other day and they were stupid.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nxivm-founder-keith-raniere-discusses-his-odious-public-image-in-rare-interview
Last night's Seduced episode reconfirms that it's the better documentary, and Mark Vicente gets his to a strong degree in that one.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 26 October 2020 19:31 (three years ago) link
Seduced covered more in two hours than The Vow irritatingly danced around in seven hours.
Also, Raniere's being sentenced today.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 15:12 (three years ago) link
Report from the court:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/nxivm-victims-confront-sex-cult-leader-keith-raniere-at-sentencing
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 17:49 (three years ago) link
BREAKING: #NXVIM founder Keither Raniere sentenced to 120 years in prison and $1.75 million fine.— Pilar Melendez (@pbmelendez) October 27, 2020
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 20:36 (three years ago) link
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, October 27, 2020 8:12 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
yeah, the fact that in the vow they don't show the misogynistic/abusive shit in the "curriculum" that mark, sarah and nippy were all peddling for years - and making good money doing so - until the penultimate episode is such bullshit. first ep of seduced you have Keith talking about raping babies.
― Politically homely (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 20:44 (three years ago) link
In addition to the sentence and fine, the federal judge ruled #Raniere is forbidden to contact anyone affiliated with #NXIVM.Speaking before the sentencing, Raniere said he was "deeply remorseful" for the pain and anger he has caused—but stressed he is innocent of some crimes.— Pilar Melendez (@pbmelendez) October 27, 2020
"It is true I am not remorseful over the crimes I do not believe I have committed at all. But I am deeply remorseful of all this pain," Raniere said in his statement to the court.Later he said: “I am truly sorry. It’s still painful.”— Pilar Melendez (@pbmelendez) October 27, 2020
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 20:49 (three years ago) link
Exactly — in Seduced, you’re immediately hit with what a predatory misogynistic piece of shit this guy is. In the first four or five hours of The Vow, he’s a goofball who plays volleyball.xp
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 21:20 (three years ago) link
in retrospect now the Vow is utterly bewildering to me. Hours of focus on irrelevant parts of this story. Loads of repeated footage. And avoiding getting around to the point until nearly the end, and even then, being vague about a lot of it. The filmmakers were ex-NIXVM members, no? Maybe they are just too close to the material to understand what other people find compelling.
― akm, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 22:27 (three years ago) link
yeah it's a bizarre series. 9 hours when it could have been half that.
― Politically homely (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 22:30 (three years ago) link
also yes, started Seduced last night. Part of what it has going for it is that India Oxenberg is a more interesting person to listen to than Mark and Bonnie. I though Sarah was the most interesting person in the Vow but felt the doc focused too much on Mark near the end. Mark reminds me of someone I met in college; smart, engaging, but something off. He was a religious studies major so maybe it goes with the territory.
― akm, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 22:31 (three years ago) link
I mean the real problem is that you could just as easily see Mark leading his own cult.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 22:34 (three years ago) link
i watched it in real time and thought it was going to be only 4 hours... thought i had read that somewhere or something. havent watched an episode since and dont think i will. coulda been good with the right editor.
― Spottie, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 22:35 (three years ago) link
Seduced is 4 hours. Vow is 9. Feels like 900.
― akm, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 22:37 (three years ago) link
India Oxenberg on the sentencing
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/10/keith-raniere-nxivm-india-oxenberg-court
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 October 2020 21:25 (three years ago) link
inspiration cube is not a cube!
― andrew m., Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:45 (three years ago) link
it's a cube of the MIND
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 29 October 2020 17:31 (three years ago) link
So here’s a bizarre NXIVM artifact that ex-ilxor gr8080 & slutsky) found ... I’ll quote gr8080 bc he summarized it better than I can “In 2008 NXIVM sponsored an a cappella festival where college a cappella groups from all over the country to network, see performances by world renowned a cappella groups, and ostensibly participate in workshops and clinics, but a lot of participants felt like the whole thing was off and possibly a recruiting schemeThis is the a capella world’s premiere internet message board, and EVERYONE shows up - Vicente, Raniere, Claire Bronfman, Alison Mack, all of them“2020 sex cult documentary but make it vintage ILX”” it literally is like reading the documentary filtered through an acapella board’s experience...though forewarning, it’s 200+ posts long 😬https://web.archive.org/web/20101109232011/http://forums.casa.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4412
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 29 October 2020 20:35 (three years ago) link
wow
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 29 October 2020 22:02 (three years ago) link
also towards the end this guy Deke Sharon kinda goes toe to toe challenging Keith & eventually the thread ends with Deke saying he wont have anything more to do w this acapella group at all bc of nxivms involvementreading it i was like, huh, that’s ballsyturns out he is Kind of A Big Deal tmhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deke_Sharon
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 29 October 2020 22:45 (three years ago) link
This woman also posted in that thread:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Malkoff
Dug around a bit and:
Waaay too complicated to tweet. Will have to email you. But I (personally) have had conversations w/Keith where he tries to refute my suggestion that NXIVM is a cult (and this was in 2008).— Amy Malkoff (@amalkoff) October 17, 2020
― jaymc, Thursday, 29 October 2020 22:51 (three years ago) link
wild thread, thanks for sharing... here is the nxivm a capella group. love the comment 'wow... this sucks!' it is quite bad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrnOaQG7Tgk
― global tetrahedron, Thursday, 29 October 2020 23:38 (three years ago) link
I read that entire thing, my goodness, and I just want to say that Deke Sharon is an utter boss and I seriously recommend reading the thread just to get a master class in how to be polite but authoritatively firm when people are trying to snake around your boundaries.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 30 October 2020 19:49 (three years ago) link
the thread was tl;dr but deke was being very thorough in his responses
― Politically homely (jim in vancouver), Friday, 30 October 2020 19:55 (three years ago) link
There's also a great B story about a capella bros shitting in the dresser drawers, seriously, people, it's worth your time
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 30 October 2020 20:20 (three years ago) link
otmBingamton Crosbys are the real heroes
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 October 2020 20:27 (three years ago) link
^^ yes
― real muthaphuckkin jeez (crüt), Saturday, 31 October 2020 01:53 (three years ago) link
gr80 have you tracked this one down yet:
Online you can see him posting repeatedly in another forum (HiIQ topic) and being chatty.
― real muthaphuckkin jeez (crüt), Saturday, 31 October 2020 02:25 (three years ago) link
I felt like the final episode of Seduced was about 1000x more informative, powerful, and impactful than all 9 hours of the Vow. I know some people are poo-poohing India and think this is meant to rehab her image; certainly there's a part of that, but it seems evident to me that she's a victim. Cult shit is tricky, it's too easy to say she was 100% complicit. I really like all the women with whom she gave that presentation to the law school. Seemed like some fairly strong hints in it that everyone thinks Scientology needs to be tackled next.
― akm, Monday, 9 November 2020 22:37 (three years ago) link
they really said “no guatemalans, just vibes 🥰✨” pic.twitter.com/uv3L6FrZqW— ratty tooey ☭ (@200mgedible) March 21, 2021
― G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Monday, 22 March 2021 17:56 (three years ago) link
not going to say i hope someone there gets kidnapped and held for ransom but im not going to say the inverse
― himpathy with the devil (jim in vancouver), Monday, 22 March 2021 18:12 (three years ago) link
Just started in on this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKtbJvL2xWI
If I didn't know the T3@l Sw@n cult was real, I'd assume it was fake. It's that far out.
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 14 July 2022 07:37 (two years ago) link
Omg. Someone I have mutual friends with posted a long, weird thread defending this person. Something about how TS is an "energetic mirror" so if you think she's psycho it means YOU'RE psycho.
― death generator (lukas), Thursday, 14 July 2022 14:20 (two years ago) link
Wow look at the YouTube comments
― death generator (lukas), Thursday, 14 July 2022 14:23 (two years ago) link