outbreak! (ebola, sars, coronavirus, etc)

but there's nothing i can do about that (points to red state people), and there's nothing i can do about that (points to even-keeled discussion in sciencemag and among normal people) and there's nothing i can do about that (all the dead people everywhere), so

there IS actual value in knowing whether natural infection provides better immunity than vaccination. the problem isn't that, it's that it's being used to dissuade people from getting the vaccine like it's unnecessary, even though most people agree that even if the former theory is true, getting naturally infected AND vaxxed would provide more protection and be the responsible thing to do.

that being said....the paperi s controversial for a reason

for sure, neanderthal.

here's the thing. there is also reason to believe immunity through natural infection may not last long or as long as through the vaccine because of the different numbers in the UK

we were in this catch-22 where we wanted to vaccinate to avoid the spread, but at the same time, everyone that got jabbed was pretty much participating in an experiment in a pseudo clinical trial gone wrong, because different people were being given different vaccines, mixing and matching, and most people in an actual blind phase 3 clinical trial all ended up getting vaccinated, so now we have to wait longer to find out all this information

Going to be a lot of openings in regional right wing talk radio this fall.

The biggest opening is accusing the Dems/libs/Biden et al. of assassinating anti-vaxxers.

I've definitely seen right-wing anti-vaxx sources claiming that study shows mass infection is better than mass vaccination for protection. The logic of which is approximately like, "I'm going to burn down my house so that I can build a new one that's more fireproof."

The assumed goal here is to prevent infection, and if you do get infected, to prevent serious illness. So to say you should just go ahead and get infected to give you better protection against getting infected again is just ... cuckoo.

yep, exactly. it' meant to mean IF you get infected, maybe it gives you more durable protection, but you're not supposed to TRY to get infected

right. i assume all this will be more important as more strains come up and we realize everyone getting jabbed twice a year forever is probably not the best solution and probably something a lot of people are against

BREAKING Florida

Continued substantial improvements, albeit still at VERY high occupancy levels.

A LOT of hard work ahead, but thankful to see Florida coming down from previously unimaginable levels.

Please do your part: Mask, test, vaccinate, avoid high risk events. https://t.co/pqyomHAuOH pic.twitter.com/etoxmhLUVs

— (((Howard Forman))) (@thehowie) August 29, 2021

Hospital beds were over 17,100 just a few days ago. Some became ICU beds, and some ICU beds became deaths, but between this and a 3% drop in infection rate, FL does appear to be close to declining. I hope

OTM thread:

.@PatriciaMazzei @benjmueller @gebeloffnyt missed the big "tell" in @GovRonDeSantis' comments: "'...but we’re not building the herd immunity that people hoped,' Mr. DeSantis said." 1/ https://t.co/PThTCfyI8e

— Gregg Gonsalves (@gregggonsalves) August 28, 2021

there is also reason to believe immunity through natural infection may not last long or as long as through the vaccine because of the different numbers in the UK

i’m not following this - can you explain what you mean?

i posted this a couple days ago which suggests immunity conferred from infection may last for life:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01557-z

The article linked above references studies that only tracked immune response to viral infection. It appears that no similar studies are yet available for immune response to vaccines. The final paragraph is:

The good news is that the evidence thus far predicts that infection with SARS-CoV-2 induces long-term immunity in most individuals. This provides a welcome positive note as we wait for further data on memory responses to vaccination.

Having had chickenpox might have made me immune to getting chickenpox again, but it set me up for a lifetime risk of having shingles because that fucking virus hides in your spinal cord. It never is eradicated from the body it infected. Who knows what is coming for survivors of a COVID-19 infection. Sure go ahead and get your "natural" immunity and potentially play host to a ticking time bomb.

people who have had smallpox have better immunity to smallpox than people who have been immunized iirc. well jealous.

Easy to tell they had it too, no need for a card when you can just be disfigured.

ok guys jeez

No, some people around here need to read this shit.

Not you, Tracer.

Are we now just responding to what we think people are saying

Has this not always been the way?

*Cut to the landing crew of the Enterprise to refute this logic*

📍Breaking—Fears growing that a new #DeltaVariant subvariant has emerged after 5000 young people infected from attending a 53,000 music festival in Cornwall—linked genetically to a Delta subtype. The region now has the highest #COVID19 rate in England. 🧵https://t.co/if1YJ5cECS pic.twitter.com/dKeEfENXO2

— Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) August 29, 2021

"One of the key reasons that some people are engaging less with these basic protective behaviours is that the Government has basically said ‘it’s safe now, it’s fine, you’re not going to die’. We need to support new norms around safety at the festivals"

herd immunity update or how to make a “festival variant”.

kinda weird to have that be the start of the thread, then this one further down...

“It’s still the Delta variant but they can say it came from the festival, hence why it is being called the ‘festival variant’,” added the official.
The South-west peninsula now home to eight of the top ten areas in England with the highest rates of infection.

still not good. did they have no vaccination/negative testing requirements at all?

Feigl-Ding is an alarmist and his epidemiology degree is in nutrition and not infectious diseases. more than likely this variant...will be like Delta classic, as most variants that we never hear about are.

from what I heard, there were no vaccine requirements. definitely was a superspreader event, not clear if it was all outdoors or if there was any indoor component.

I usually think of “festival variant” as a personality type, but yeah it isn't a mutation.

Was just curious since (so far, knock wood), Lolla did not turn into the gigantic super spreader event I was fearing.

@DrEricDing, can you please keep to facts? At present, there is no evidence that C.1.2 is more transmissible than Delta. On neutralization, we are generating the results now and can work with international agencies & scientific groups that helped with previous variant, Beta. https://t.co/qg8Qmo3AYG

— Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna) August 30, 2021

Unqualified folks like this (yes he’s an epidemiologist but nutritional one, a pro hockey player might not be that great at playing pro football) spouting nonstop doom are just the inverse of berenson, prasad, and battacharya. It’s not useful. https://t.co/aRSeMxV83i

— Tom Wallach, MD (@md_wallach) August 30, 2021

Tulio's was one of the authors of the pre-print that Eric sourced for his tweet-storm. Nice takedown

what the FUCK

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/08/30/ohio-judge-orders-hospital-treat-covid-patient-ivermectin/5648583001/

The lawsuit doesn’t mention whether Jeffrey Smith is vaccinated against COVID-19.

Hmm, let me guess. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

https://www.wowktv.com/news/u-s-world/education-department-opens-civil-rights-investigations-against-five-states-that-bar-mask-mandates-for-schools/

lol is that really a one-sentence news "article"?

since when can a judge order a doctor to treat a patient with a particular medication?

that's what i said!

really hoping there are appeal options or something, because this is an ugly precedent

In a previous case I saw, the hospital was ordered to give ivermectin but individual doctors didn’t have to. They had to bring in an outside doctor to administer it.

look if this idiot wants to shit out his intestines at Menards that's his god-given right

i just don't understand how a judge could say "you must administer this specific drug at this dosage" esp when I doubt the hospital would be absolved of malpractice if he died. I know they sometimes rule on removal of feeding tubes/taking off of life support and things like that, but that's kind of a different thing.

I order Extenz be used to treat the patient

look if this idiot wants to shit out his intestines at Menards that's his god-given right

E Pluribus Poopum

@DrEricDing, can you please keep to facts? At present, there is no evidence that C.1.2 is more transmissible than Delta. On neutralization, we are generating the results now and can work with international agencies & scientific groups that helped with previous variant, Beta. https://t.co/qg8Qmo3AYG
— Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna) August 30, 2021

Unqualified folks like this (yes he’s an epidemiologist but nutritional one, a pro hockey player might not be that great at playing pro football) spouting nonstop doom are just the inverse of berenson, prasad, and battacharya. It’s not useful. https://t.co/aRSeMxV83i
— Tom Wallach, MD (@md_wallach) August 30, 2021
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 30 August 2021 15:09 (two hours ago) link

Yes, Ding is notoriously unreliable and jumps at every chance to report doom. He's built his fame on it. It's probably worth noting that (something I only learned during this pandemic) it's not actually that hard to obtain the credentials to call oneself an "epidemiologist" -- it's basically a masters in public health, and the title does not magically confer any expertise in infectious viral pandemics. As with "MD" accounts, it's important to be cautious with epi twitter.

yes I deffo won't be posting any links to that fool again, apologies for that.

new variants and strains are constantly emerging, vast majority are not of any particular significance (which is why they sometimes use the term "Variant of Concern" to describe a new one that might be).

it's also just shitty and irresponsible for him to start the thread with a dire warning about a new variant, only to clarify 2 or 3 tweets later that it, uh, actually isn't.

Even the best, most sober, most highly reliable experts have been wrong enough times in this ever-evolving pandemic, so anyone wedded to one side of things is going to be wrong a lot.

xp calzino i would go one step further and figure out who was boosting Dr Ding on twitter. whoever it is isn't reliable

one by one we shall eliminate all sources of untruth, until we get to dr truth

And then just a bit further until we emerge out the other side at Dr. Teeth.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/2/26/Dr_Teeth_pink.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150625152503