Seinfeld: Classic or Dud

I think Larry David is maybe an even worse actor than Jerry Seinfeld

― fetter, Monday, November 29, 2021 1:50 PM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

idk I think Larry is pretty good at playing a version of himself, Jerry on the other hand doesn't really seem to be playing an actual person

this scene from 'the busboy' s2e12, where elaine wakes up and realizes she slept through her alarm and the guy visiting her who she can't stand may miss his flight, and frantically packs, is one of the greatest elaine scenes imho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSJ7AKcHgLI

and this one--where george lies about the IQ test elaine helped him cheat on--is one of my all-time fav george scenes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12KOazXUobw

i don't think Jerry being a bad actor is a big deal. i disagree that he 'doesnt seem like he's playing a person' (not even sure what that means). it's a comedy where he plays himself, and he writes his own lines. i think it's safe to say he is playing a real person--namely, himself. imo his acting is only occasionally distractingly bad, and it's mostly noticeable because the other actors are so unusually talented for sitcoms. also, while he might be a bad actor, he's a master of cadence (from stand-up) and the show is mostly chatty conversations. so it plays to his strengths. his dialogues with George are pitch-perfect

yeah, he's very good at the smug, straight-man delivery, which is most of what the writers give him. I even kinda like the moments where his acting is noticeably bad (like the ep when he starts to "care"). I think the joke usually still comes across and his bad acting holds some humor in itself

jerry actually wrote the final draft of every episode with Larry David, so i don't know if it makes sense to think of his lines as something 'the writers gave him'

my understanding of the writing process is writers would constantly be pitching story ideas to larry david, and whenever he found one funny enough, they would write up a rough draft, and then after a table read jerry and larry would lock themselves in their office to write the final draft. apparently jerry's specialty was in polishing the dialogue (which is consistent with curb being mostly improvised) and giving it that signature seinfeld 'musical' quality

idk I think Larry is pretty good at playing a version of himself,

the greatest continuity between the two shows is the extremely unrealistic acting of the leads amidst a sea of more convincing professionals

public appearances since Seinfeld the show ended have made it clear that this aloof disconnection from human feeling is closer to IRL Jerry’s mien than a writing exaggeration or an acting flaw

But “the extremely unrealistic acting of the leads” is not a detriment of either show!

"Frank, come 'ere!"
"YOU come 'ere!"

— he "doesnt seem like he's playing a person" = he very often moves basically like a puppet (when he turns, when he runs), it's a kind of shtick yes, but it's also him signalling (for the joke of it) "i'm doing this instead of what an actor would do"
— he has no real idea what to do when others are speaking and generally stands like a bemused lump with his mouth slackly a little open
— the only way i can parse "he plays himself" as a deliberate move is that he's choosing to play as the show's writer-director standing on-stage with its actual players, and that's where the passivity comes from (but it's not a choice he's making, it's being made by his not knowing what else to do). and it works! bcz it's funny! so he had no good incentive to "get better" (probably if he got "better" he'd be worse i.e. less funny)

from early on all the others have a very clear idea of what their (silent) physical character is, which they inhabit while speaking (obviously) but also while others are speaking. they're all stylised weirdos obviously -- and over time become cartoons of themselves a bit -- but physically working at character even when they're quiet. elaine's mouth is also often open as others speak but she's extremely dynamic and alert phsyically with this, it's an active receptivity, it's the opposite of slack

Are ppl still watching seinfeld, the half-note show

"(but it's not a choice he's making, it's being made by his not knowing what else to do)"

it's also being made by his having a second larger job the others don't have, which is constantly judging the overall effectiveness of how everyone is delivering the material he's written -- but despite what flopson says i don't think he's "acting" this second dimension by choice

I think Seinfeld's approach to acting is in concert with his approach to the sitcom in that he doesn't seem to respect the medium and craft or it is irrelevant to his purposes.

This is made explicit by my favorite stretch of the show when they are selling the sitcom to NBC and then filming it - it has near Charlie Kauffman approaches to irony and identity (for instance, George's reactions to the actors auditioning for George) - highlighting the message "can you believe this shitty tv show we are making?". Seinfeld's acting delivers this same message as well as insulating Jerry from having to deal with his obvious acting limitations.

Yeah, season four is kind of astounding. One of my favorite seasons of a television show ever.

All the middle seasons blur together in my mind. Like some others, don't much like S1, and I remember it tailing off near the end. I liked the really surreal stuff the best, like the pilot within the show about the show about Larry David's life, or the Merv Griffin episode.

yeah idk if S4 is particularly better than the other ones (minus S1 of course) but as a whole it's a really cool accomplishment, especially since the Jerry show itself is basically awful

the season of Curb where they did the Seinfeld reunion was also really cool. I think they both realized an actual reunion could not help but be lame so if there was any way to actually do it this was it. by the final episode it probably got more meta than Seinfeld ever was

Was thinking again about childish views of "work," "jobs" on this, and as One Eye Open also observed, so many other sitcoms--but then realized there was a glorious exception: on King of Queens, everybody has jobs, and they always matter, one way or another, in each ep---even Arthur, Jerry Stiller's character, has jobs sometimes, and it's amazing, like watching Kramer at work would have to be. (The real life Kenny Kramer's hustles inspired some eps, like he was a hand model agent, and wrangled a creative consultant's stipend for the series, also ran Kramer's Seinfeld Reality Tour, which maybe should have been in series finale, run by Kosmo Kramer, of course).

criminal to put “glorious” in front of King of queens. best sitcom for depicting work is Taxi imo

Roseanne is good in this regard

when george works at Kruger Industrial Smoothing its to the point where even mr kruger doesnt seem totally clear on what they all are supposed to be doing. theres definitely a running thread of 'office jobs' being a weird interzone where nobody actually does anything yet jobs are sustained through some kind of strange alchemy

Reminded of course of the running joke in Friends where nobody is really sure what Chandlers job is

I still marvel at this scene and imagine how much fun it must have been to write:

JERRY'S APARTMENT
JERRY: Oh, I'm glad you're here, so we can get this all straightened out. Would you like a cup of tea?
BOOKMAN: You got any coffee?
JERRY: Coffee?
BOOKMAN: Yeah. Coffee.
JERRY: No, I don't drink coffee.
BOOKMAN: Yeah, you don't drink coffee? How about instant coffee?
JERRY: No, I don't have--
BOOKMAN: You don't have any instant coffee?
JERRY: Well, I don't normally--
BOOKMAN: Who doesn't have instant coffee?
JERRY: I don't.
BOOKMAN: You buy a jar of Folger's Crystals, you put it in the cupboard, you forget about it. Then later on when you need it, it's there. It lasts forever. It's freeze-dried. Freeze-dried Crystals.
JERRY: Really? I'll have to remember that.
BOOKMAN: You took this book out in 1971.
JERRY: Yes, and I returned it in 1971.
BOOKMAN: Yeah, '71. That was my first year on the job. Bad year for libraries. Bad year for America. Hippies burning library cards, Abby Hoffman telling everybody to steal books. I don't judge a man by the length of his hair or the kind of music he listens to. Rock was never my bag. But you put on a pair of shoes when you walk into the New York Public Library, fella.
JERRY: Look, Mr. Bookman. I--I returned that book. I remember it very specifically.
BOOKMAN: You're a comedian, you make people laugh.
JERRY: I try.
BOOKMAN: You think this is all a big joke, don't you?
JERRY: No, I don't.
BOOKMAN: I saw you on TV once; I remembered your name--from my list. I looked it up. Sure enough, it checked out. You think because you're a celebrity that somehow the law doesn't apply to you, that you're above the law?
JERRY: Certainly not.
BOOKMAN: Well, let me tell you something, funny boy. Y'know that little stamp, the one that says "New York Public Library"? Well that may not mean anything to you, but that means a lot to me. One whole hell of a lot. Sure, go ahead, laugh if you want to. I've seen your type before: Flashy, making the scene, flaunting convention. Yeah, I know what you're thinking. What's this guy making such a big stink about old library books? Well, let me give you a hint, junior. Maybe we can live without libraries, people like you and me. Maybe. Sure, we're too old to change the world, but what about that kid, sitting down, opening a book, right now, in a branch at the local library and finding drawings of pee-pees and wee-wees on the Cat in the Hat and the Five Chinese Brothers? Doesn't HE deserve better? Look. If you think this is about overdue fines and missing books, you'd better think again. This is about that kid's right to read a book without getting his mind warped! Or: maybe that turns you on, Seinfeld; maybe that's how y'get your kicks. You and your good-time buddies. Well I got a flash for ya, joy-boy: Party time is over. Y'got seven days, Seinfeld. That is one week!

joy-boy!

Yeah great scene

weird that he says he doesn't drink coffee though, isn't he always supping it in the Toms diner?

no television show in history had a better cast of one-off characters, right? I mean what even comes close

Xp it's pointed out elsewhere in the show that Jerry drinks decaf.

Really, well if that isn't justification for a full re-watch I don't know what is.

Actually decaf tea iirc.

Lemon lift?

lot of love for Bookman and so many more over here: Seinfeld secondary character poll

Crazy Joe Davola was robbed.

“Bookman: You're a comedian, you make people laugh.
Jerry: I try.
Bookman: You think this is all a big joke, don't ya?”

nothing tops this guy for me, single funniest line reading in the whole series imo

http://peopleyouseeinairports.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/take-a-bite.gif

I beg to differ:

https://tenor.com/SZmq.gif

Or I would if I could post a gif.

https://c.tenor.com/-cmGwgBlbdcAAAAC/sonofabitch-sob.gif

Lol every time I have a bath I think "The soak o' the year!"

dunno if Puddy is considered a secondary character but he's the best minor character in this

yeah, that's right

hey babe

Last flight I took I saw a guy just staring straight ahead for the whole flight, not even wearing earphones, and I kept thinking of Puddy and giggling.

my favorite joke in that goes like

Jerry: Who's that?
Elaine: VEGETABLE LASAGNA

haha I'm watching an episode of Friends right now and Monica's mum has just pulled out Lasagnas from her freezer

fyi

literally everything puddy ever says is amazing.

“sure thing, joe mayo.”

I involuntarily shush everyone around me if I hear "Desperado"

Absolutely one of the best exchanges in the history of the show. I crack up every time. From “The Parking Garage”:

ELAINE: “And now he's gone. I'm sure he's looking for the car. Five minutes, that's all. I just want to find him.”

MAN #1: “I can't do it.”

ELAINE: “But why? Why can't you do it?”

MAN #1: “… I can't.”

ELAINE: “No, see that's not a reason you can't. You just don't want to.”

MAN #1: “… That's right.”

ELAINE: “But why? Why don't you want to?”

MAN #1: “I don't know.”

ELAINE: “But wouldn't you get any satisfaction out of helping someone out?”

MAN #1: “No, I wouldn't.”

It feels pointless to write it out here because so much of the brilliance is in the delivery.

Favourite Puddy: "That's right."

(Hearing it in context helps.)

I’ve spent many moments on this earth idly wondering if I could pull off puddy’s 8 ball jacket

Glad Flopson cited Elaine's manic luggage-packing up there, possibly mycfavourite scene in the series.

And then she shows up at Jerry's place, hair in face, to give a stirring account of how she *almost* got him there in time: "Gentlemen, I assure you--" What's the rest?

"Mr Kramer, he's an innocent primate."
"Well so am I!"

I’d forgotten what a jackass Jerry is in this show/ The insincerity in every moment is breathtaking, it just oozes from every pore.