Is the US a dystopia?

option 3 ftw

US perfidy always comes back to tea

not really

hm sounds like you're either a "no" or "The Beatles" but afaict you can still secretly vote however you wish

it's going to take a lot of restraint not to shoehorn this in to thread connections

I figured it was what it was for.

least serious answer is the correct one

by that you mean "yes"?

oh misread "least" as "last" nevermind

This question is unhelpful and I have no idea why it is being asked.

Badly trimmed shrub = dystopiary

Dropped the clay - dyspottery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu3iH0R_GM

I mean, pulling up the forecast today and seeing tornado warnings for Chicago in mid-December doesn't make me not think it's a dystopia.

an imagined state or society in which there is great suffering or injustice, typically one that is totalitarian or post-apocalyptic.

not imagined, authoritarian rather than totalitarian and pre-apocalyptic instead of post IMO

so maybe it's not a dystopia but merely dystopic

dystopic? I dunno. but ilx is def dyspeptic today.

I did not remotely intend this thread to be serious, but there's an argument to be made that 1492 counts as the apocalypse

Can the apocalypse be local?

Americans rly struggle with not being the world and i think its quite telling tbh

let it beatles

Climate catastrophe is going to be pretty universal IIRC.

which is v little to do with the point about 1492 is it

you can get with dystopia, or you can get with datopia

just throwing this out there but maybe dystopia fans are blind to dystopias

I dunno I think most fans of the crust punk band Dystopia probably would agree that the USA is a dystopia fwiw

let me see, is the US a dystopia.

the republican party is trying to actively KILL a lot of people. let me just see how that plays in the polls

The approval rating among those who voted for [Biden] has dropped from 80% to 69% in the April survey. There have been notable declines among Americans 18-34 and suburban residents, both of whom, in dramatic swings, now register net negative views on the president.

As bad as Biden’s number may be, the polling data for Democrats in Congress is far worse.

Republicans now sport a historic 10-point advantage when Americans are asked which party they prefer to control Congress, holding a 44%-34% margin over Democrats. That’s up from a 2-point Republican advantage in the October survey.

In the past 20 years, CNBC and NBC surveys have never registered a double-digit Republican advantage on congressional preference, with the largest lead ever being 4 pints for the GOP.

“If the election were tomorrow, it would be an absolute unmitigated disaster for the Democrats,″ said Jay Campbell, partner at Hart Research Associates and the Democratic pollster for the survey.

yes it's a full blown dystopia

nah but rich people have never had it better tho

A 4 pint lead is difficult to overcome tbh. sorry

Can the apocalypse be local?

Americans rly struggle with not being the world and i think its quite telling tbh

― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Friday, December 10, 2021 8:10 PM (one hour ago)

I was addressing "the apocalypse" that it could be argued helps to confirm the US as a dystopia, the subject of this important poll. So I guess I do think it can be local, idk, why not? Anyway Columbus never even entered future-US territory, it's more of a symbolic hinge year for everything being terrible from then on

I'd figure most people using the term think in the sense of dystopian science fiction and I kinda think 2021 has quite a few elements that seem like out of such.

There's no utopia that's not someone's dystopia, and vice versa.

The notion of local dystopias is an interesting one. Could be that there was an egalitarian paradise unfolding just a continent or two over from Mad Max.

If the US ticks all the boxes- and there's a case- then clearly plenty of very nice places to live in exist besides so id say thats a clear yes

Have we ever not been? Slave state — apartheid state — Vietnam/Watergate — Corporate state — Fury Road (2016-present)

the people in the mayfield candle factory that collapsed worked 12-hour shifts that paid $8 an hour. 110 ppl were inside. 40 ppl are still unaccounted for. they haven’t recovered a survivor since 3 am. pic.twitter.com/CsIIfLw3Pc

— Tracy Moore (@iusedtobepoor) December 11, 2021

it’s legal in kentucky to fire someone for refusing to work mandatory overtime

— Tracy Moore (@iusedtobepoor) December 11, 2021

The notion of local dystopias is an interesting one. Could be that there was an egalitarian paradise unfolding just a continent or two over from Mad Max.

Zardoz is another one. Although The Eternals are mainly a bunch of insufferable bores and their egalitarian paradise is pretty lame, but you wouldn't complain about it if you were being held captive by Charlotte Rampling.

Slave state — apartheid state — Vietnam/Watergate — Corporate state — Fury Road (2016-present)

We didn't start the fire, etc.

Let's see what all we have...you got this one.

US combined laissez-faire capitalism on it's drug industry and combined with heroin blow-back from the 'war on terror' created the opioid epidemic for fun and profit killing over a million Americans since 1999.

Getting back to the topic at hand, Le Guin wrote a book about a moon. Also was there some Cold War global political framework in her gender-bender book? I don't recall.

Climate catastrophe is going to be pretty universal IIRC.

― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, December 11, 2021 1:14 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

which is v little to do with the point about 1492 is it

― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Saturday, December 11, 2021 1:17 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

It is though (unless I'm misreading). The USA is the biggest historical contributor to the climate crisis. An argument could be made that if 1492 never happened, there would be no global crisis. Same for much of global environmental destruction -- Amazon forest all gone? Thank Ronald McDonald.

Local teachers in South Dakota “Dash for Cash” to help their classrooms by fighting over $5,000 in $1 bills while the crowd hoots and hollers. pic.twitter.com/azwGJKhaKU

— Eoin Higgins (@EoinHiggins_) December 12, 2021

they're going to remove that rug at some point

and then charge them for it!

An argument could be made that if 1492 never happened, there would be no global crisis.

Are we talking a world where Europe never came into contact with the Americas?

I can’t live without potatoes

-LL McCooljay

It would have happened eventually.

I can’t live without potatoes

OTM

Lol, Neanderthal.

I'm in a Zoom meeting for work and the speaker just said that starting in 2020, more people in the US turned 65 each year than turned 18, and that's going to continue at least through the late 2030s and possibly into the mid-2040s.

The hawk tuah video getting turned into the world’s ugliest/most horrifying merch by the worst Barstool wannabes within a week feels dystopian.

I don’t think this story will surprise anyone really, but it felt like it belonged here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/06/23/rural-america-shrinking-population-pennsylvania/#:~:text=Jim%20Decker%2C%20chairman%20of%20the,age%20adult%20population%2C%20by%202050.

its like japan. lets all buy a town!

As the presidential election approaches, many residents in this deeply Republican town say they view Trump as having a better vision for salvaging rural America, even though Biden has steered billions of dollars to initiatives that support rural America.

the phrase "buried the lede" comes to mind

but a lot of them don't like trump either! so, uh...

i've said it before and i'll say it again: the combo of people not being able to afford to sell their houses and move to florida and also people living forever now has helped lead to this. no influx of young people to keep a town alive. where i live there are lots and lots of people 70+ not going anywhere and about 3 houses for sale.

and the boomers haven't even begun to live forever. its just going to get worse. and anyone with any kind of comfort is not going to be moving anywhere in coming years cuzza climapalooza. i really want New England to start beefing up its borders. start checking passports when people drive to Mass. if you have a Trump sticker we can't allow your climate-fleeing ass. sorry. nothing personal. no, wait, its personal.

i don't want to be cruel. my ex-wife's grandfather... i met him once. was married to his wife for 50 years. they were so sweet. they loved each other so much. they owned a house in west virginia and lived there and it was literally... their backyard had mostly eroded from the river. a couple more decades and that house will be in the river.

i went to his funeral. he was, i don't know. a lutheran, or something. the minister was this young guy, had an earring, looked, if you don't mind my saying so, kinda queer-coded. you know, queer people can be ministers in the lutheran church, certain varieties of it, even in rural west virginia i guess. and this minister, he visited my ex-wife's grandfather a lot. he was a good, caring person, and he talked about my ex-wife's grandfather, how he felt abandoned. not just abandoned by the people around him. abandoned by god. and he said, he said that god hadn't abandoned him, and me personally... even though i was a christian at the time, episcopalian, i felt the minister being honest about my ex-wife's grandfather, how he felt, things he didn't say to other people, that was amazing of him. but i didn't believe him when he said that god hadn't abandoned this man.

and he deserved better. he deserved better. and i wish, you know, i had any opportunity, any ability to be part of an organization with the power and the will to give him better. but i didn't and i don't.

maybe that's a dystopia. i kinda feel like that's the way the world's always been. some people get their faces stomped on, get their dreams betrayed. and he was one of them.

i got a bit of a melancholic temperament. i'll admit to that.

why does this feel like doom to me?

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/22/science/pets-health-behavior.html

Roughly two-thirds of American homes have at least one pet, up from 56 percent in 1988, according to the American Pet Products Association, and Americans spent $136.8 billion on their pets in 2022, up from $123.6 billion in 2021. An estimated 91 million households in Europe own at least one pet, an increase of 20 million over the past decade. The pet population in India hit 31 million in 2021, up from 10 million in 2011.

One of the fastest growing market segments is the so-called pet confinement sector, which includes crates and indoor fencing, as well as head harnesses and electronic collars. “The level of constraint that dogs face is profound,” Dr. Pierce said.

“Owners don’t want dogs to act like dogs.” Dr. Serpell said.

The confinement and isolation, in turn, have bred an increase in animal separation anxiety and aggression, Dr. Serpell said. Roughly 60 percent of cats and dogs are now overweight or obese. And due in part to the burden and expense of modern pet ownership — veterinary fees, pet sitters, boarding costs — more people are abandoning animals to animal shelters, leading to higher rates of euthanasia. In 2023, more than 359,000 dogs were euthanized at shelters, a five-year high, according to Shelter Animals Count, an animal advocacy group.

“We’re at an odd moment of obsession with pets,” Dr. Pierce said. “There are too many of them and we keep them too intensively. It’s not good for us and it’s not good for them.”

i can't help but think about how much food that is. for pets. how much grain. corn. meat.

SORRY DOG LOVERS NOT TRYING TO BUM YOU OUT BUT...

Children are straight-up unaffordable, so...

yeah it makes sense i guess.

one of the many things about the US that is wild to me is how many dogs basically never get to run around, even when their owners live essentially in the countryside. london is one of the most densely peopled, populous cities on earth and my dog gets to run and play off his lead every day!

just seems like at this point in time and history people spending more and more money on pets...

my sister-in-law and brother-in-law are totally into the obsessive dog thing. i can't really relate. i liked when you could just open the front door and out they went. seeya later dog. come back when hungry.

yeah i don't know when it stopped here. the dogs outside thing. and every cat used to be outside.

Pet kidney transplant, $25,000:

https://wapo.st/4cwCbIO

I see the cheap rural/semi-rural house listings across the rust belt/midwest, I don't really need the amenities of living in the middle of 7 million people anymore but even if I could up stakes for the $50k 1930s bungalow in BFE Illinois, how are you supposed to find a job? (also I assume they all cost insane amounts to heat)

There is a presumption out there that all white-collar knowledge workers can be remote, and can therefore easily pick up and move from urban Brooklyn (or whatever) to rural Whereversville without taking any professional hit.

This may be true for some people, but many have found that we can't count on a neverending spigot of WFH jobs that can be done from rural Whereversville. Or it may have been true a year ago but who knows about next year or the year after that.

i can't help but think about how much food that is. for pets. how much grain. corn. meat.

*SORRY DOG LOVERS NOT TRYING TO BUM YOU OUT BUT...*

Probably at least half of dog owners just want a mute stuffed animal that dances

I mean who doesn’t

It’s also just incredible how many dogs are in cities/suburbs that really should be running around on a farm all day or something, ok I’m done

Don’t fucking talk to me, you had human children.
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Monday, June 24, 2024 8:25 PM (thirty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

WTAF dude

Scott, I’d like to see those pet ownership figures put up versus childbearing in those places. The results would be illuminating (if not depressing).

Which is to say: we all chug along through each day but we don’t necessarily feel optimism about whatever is waiting ahead. (And we want comfort.)

The environmental red flags I see raised about American pet ownership relate to industrial meat production - are many cows raised just for pet food, though? I assume that dog food is produced from the scraps of human production - Purina isn't putting filet in the kibble.

dogs need to kill their own cows imo

I always wonder why dog and cat food comes in beef flavor, chicken flavor, tuna flavor. A cat isn't catching a tuna. A dog isn't killing a cow. Cat food should be made from roaches (OK, fine, crickets) and sparrows. Dog food should be made from cats.

Cats like strong-smelling food, which is why they like fish.

there are way more pets then children. plus, people are supposed to have people. its what animals do. but people are the only animal that feels the need to own other animals.

i hate to say it, but i vote people. owning and training animals has always been weird to me. unless they run free. then it seems less weird.

There are those tarantulas that keep frogs for pets.

“We’re at an odd moment of obsession with pets,” Dr. Pierce said. “There are too many of them and we keep them too intensively. It’s not good for us and it’s not good for them.”

― scott seward

i'll one-up you

puppygirls

big upswing in puppygirls in my social circles in the last year

eating and drinking water from a dog bowl, sleeping in a cage, the whole thing

you know why?

pets are _loved_ and _cared for_ and treated with _kindness_

i'm not taking a position for or against pet ownership

i am, however, taking a position in favor of human beings being treated _at least as well_ as pets

animals should be wild. but that's just my opinion. i do have a cat. so i'm a hypocrite. but i leave the cat alone. i don't put hats on it. i don't even like calling animals human names. feels disrespectful.

puppyplay >>>> adult babies
puppies >>>> human babies

adult babies both as in people who wear diapers for sexual pleasure and Disney Adults.

to the dog freaks, i get it. everyone is freaky about something. its cool. bark on. i know how fanatical the dog-people are. oh i know.

Indoor Cats are better than kids if we are talking environmental impact

Earlier.. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/vet-private-equity-industry/678180/#

As household pets have risen in status—from mere animals to bona fide family members—so, too, has owners’ willingness to spend money to ensure their well-being. Big-money investors have noticed. According to data provided to me by PitchBook, private equity poured $51.6 billion into the veterinary sector from 2017 to 2023, and another $9.3 billion in the first four months of this year, seemingly convinced that it had discovered a foolproof investment. Industry cheerleaders pointed to surveys showing that people would go into debt to keep their four-legged friends healthy. The field was viewed as “low-risk, high-reward,” as a 2022 report issued by Capstone Partners put it, singling out the industry for its higher-than-average rate of return on investment.

In the United States, corporations and private-equity funds have been rolling up smaller chains and previously independent practices. Mars Inc., of Skittles and Snickers fame, is, oddly, the largest owner of stand-alone veterinary clinics in the United States, operating more than 2,000 practices under the names Banfield, VCA, and BluePearl. JAB Holding Company, the owner of National Veterinary Associates’ 1,000-plus hospitals (not to mention Panera and Espresso House), also holds multiple pet-insurance lines in its portfolio. Shore Capital Partners, which owns several human health-care companies, controls Mission Veterinary Partners and Southern Veterinary Partners.

As a result, your local vet may well be directed by a multinational shop that views caring for your fur baby as a healthy component of a diversified revenue stream. Veterinary-industry insiders now estimate that 25 to 30 percent of practices in the United States are under large corporate umbrellas, up from 8 percent a little more than a decade ago. For specialty clinics, the number is closer to three out of four.

And as this happened, veterinary prices began to rise—a lot. Americans spent an estimated $38 billion on health care and related services for companion animals in 2023, up from about $29 billion in 2019. Even as overall inflation got back under control last year, the cost of veterinary care did not. In March 2024, the Consumer Price Index for urban consumers was up 3.5 percent year over year. The veterinary-services category was up 9.6 percent. If you have ever wondered why keeping your pet healthy has gotten so out-of-control expensive, Big Vet just might be your answer.

My co-workers always ask me when I’m gonna get a pet. (I’ve had cats and dogs at various points in my life.)

My answer is invariably “when I hit the age when I’m not traveling and have significant disposable income.” Having watched what friends and loved ones have gone through in recent years with pets, not happening now - money is pretty damn tight, about to get tighter.

And look, I love pets too - they can be a wonderful comfort in so many ways - and understand the myriad reasons why people don’t have kids.

“We’re at an odd moment of obsession with pets,” Dr. Pierce said. “There are too many of them and we keep them too intensively. It’s not good for us and it’s not good for them.”

Elvis keepin' it squarely on topic. That shit is just bleak. Can the tumor of capitalism just fuckin metastasize already?

Damn, if we have to live in a dystopia at least let us have cats. They’re the best! (Kids are good too, I like mine — and most people’s.)

Jessica Pierce has also written about how dog owners should see the world from their animals perspectives more in order to be ethical dog owners. I agree with her about this.

I just don’t like being called crazy by someone who has 9 gazillion records. It’s called hoarding.

Where did he call you crazy?

and like fwiw i really like you scott, i just sometimes can’t with certain opinions of yours

also, from yesterday: Why You’re Paying Your Veterinarian So Much

spoiler: private equity

oh tablepaws

old records are dead though and i rarely buy new ones! like almost never!

its cool pup patrol i promise not to make people share one dog for every square mile of citizens in the futurtopia that i rule and i promise to only throw up a little when you french kiss your terrier in public.

futurtopia

london is one of the most densely peopled, populous cities on earth and my dog gets to run and play off his lead every day!

― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Monday, 24 June 2024 bookmarkflaglink

Went to France last month and most dogs were well behaved and on a leash. Don't know if its a law but it should be one here.

Yesterday one person was allowing their dog to run about at the back of the bus. Someone had to say to them to get them.

Ofc they should be on a lead in the street. Personally that's not enough for me but I know I'm in a minority.