Real love -- I'm, like, searchin' for that Queer Love -- LGBTQIA+ Love // A Thread for the Real Ones

omg mine too is a lil snug, I forget which one I sent you but the one I have has her face on it and my belly makes it fold in half so that it makes her look like that one picture of Aphex Twin

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/Aphex_Twin_-_Syro_main_press_photo.jpg

you sent me the glow in the dark one (which amazingly still works after probably dozens of laundry cycles)

I just watched unzipped recently and it was so good. also did you know there's a sister documentary called catwalk that basically follows Christy Turlington all over the world?
pretty awful what's going on with Linda Evangelista. she just released the first body pics of her condition due to coolsculpting. unimaginable.

I was sad to miss Kates. Heard my friend Anna blew it outta the park, and saw the wacky inflatable Cathy and Heathcliff blow-up piece on film. Looked like a really fun time, but we had planned a dinner months ago with our gay friends, one of whom is going through a health scare...so it seemed more important to hang out with them.

I finished "Detransition, Baby," yesterday, and while I thought it ended much too quickly, I thought it had some really lovely moments.

hope your friend is hanging in there <3

xp y0ung?? she fuckin KILLED it (as per usual). I hope they post a recording of the livestream.

I've been listening to a lot of RuTH lately 🌄🌄🌄

yes Stevie, that Ann4

o boy what a life we lead really

so I'm not sure when the next time I'll "meet" someone is, let's call it, due to extenuating circumstances

do i care?

will i ever go out to a bar and pick someone up again? i had occasional game. all of a sudden I'd love to meet someone younger than me. i usually don't gravitate to that realm. i wonder what that's about

you will absolutely go out to a bar and pick someone up again, it is so inevitable

Date tonight. At a (rooftop) bar. I shoulda asked if he's jabbed.

first date? how did you meet? brown hair, big heart, bat eyelashes?

you know Stevie it's just at first it was pandemia, and then health stuff that's going to take another 6 months to settle. just didn't realize I'd be singing the same tune for the goddamn 3-year dark ages. but whatever i'm going to get so many beauty treatments when this is all through I plan on looking like Princess Jasmine meets Bella Hadid. mark my words.

also i quit smoking forever and it's truly something else. going on 6 months.

my new issue of BUTT just arrived!!!!!!!!!

omg i already read some of the poems
how is it at large?

is it large?

C'mon Simone, let's talk about your big "but."

I haven't read it yet bcz I got it at work and then *brag alert* went straight to my fuck buddy's house for a cute date and only just got home a few hours ago!!!

butts all around

butts rule everything around me

OK SO
I'm not a butt man and i keep feeling more and more alone
like American men are just obsessed with them
i feel like there's something wrong with me

Stevo you're killin it these days

don't care about the outside, it's what's inside that counts imo

like the way it feels?

yeah! i mean not to get too tmi or too cliche i guess but i just think anuses are this incredible part of us lol and i really like experiencing them.

So! My Saturday night date sold me out. I suspected trouble when I had to text him 15 mins before meeting: he was running late thanks to a "minor emergency" at his parents', whatever that means (what's a "minor" emergency?). Luckily a friend kept me company at the bar.

An hour later, date texts: "On my way, send location address plz?" That's the last I heard of him. For a while I thought he died -- until I saw a an Instagram post Sunday morning.

He's 24, a former student who emailed me four years after class to ask about getting a beer or coffee. On determining he was queer he gushed: he praised my self-assurance, brains, looks, etc. We might've met that night had I not plans already. It's worth noting I barely remember this kid in summer 2018.

I wonder if simply not showing up is a phenomenon of the young?

Anusii are a cliche?

that sucks. definitely hit next. it's been a phenomenon of the young and old as long as i've been dating tbh. xp

Yeah, I wanted to avoid generational generalization, but a few viejos noted The Vanishing has been more prevalent in the last four years.

I've ghosted more than my share, I should note.

I have never done this, to my knowledge?

me eiths it's dumb
I'm too polite though

wassup homieslice

good morning!

Mornin' sunshine!
What's on the platter?

I'm vegetarian tonight.

sexually or culinarily?

Lady Bracknell : Well, both, if necessary, I presume!

So, I’m in one of the only two gay bars in Marbella (southern coast of Spain) right now, and the thing here is that high heeled shoes are passed around, everyone tries them on, and then they take their turn swishing down what passes for a catwalk. Pleased to report that my boy got the loudest applause of the night. We make our own entertainment.

The bar is filling up because at 4am they close the doors, bring out the ashtrays, and everyone can smoke indoors.

We will be back tomorrow for drag queen bingo.

omgggggg jealous

Oh I forgot to mention the seventy something naked woman who did her catwalk turn clutching a large stuffed teddy bear.

stop

jealz to the max

Just ended a fabulous evening with j0rdan.

yesss. what did y'all do?

we went to a sports bar so i could watch basketball while we talked about madonna

...and Mariah Carey. And my terrible non-date last week.

ok well that sounds ideal (sorry for the delay how the hell do three days go by?!)

you know i saw Madonna's Mme X tour
she could still put on a show, i just wonder if it isn't time for her to maybe think about doing something else

we had dinner with Stevie last night!! and then he came back to our place and we plied him with amaro and we talked about sheryl crow and natalie merchant and celine dion and it was just a total delight <3

Amaro! Sheryl Crow! Sounds like my kind of night.

No, like, it’s insane.

I probably posted some of my LA anecdotes here in the past. When I moved there, the fact that I’d been thirteen years in a relationship with (gasp) a Pinoy was cause for interest. Like as if I had a fetish or something? And: certain of my friends attempted to set me up with their Asian friends, like I was some anomalous creature?

But I soon realized that I WAS anomalous. Me and my best LA friend (gay, Black), we went dancing, and it was a warehouse party. I soon realized that there were some five or six rooms and they were ALL divided by race. The Latino room, the Black room, the white room, the Filipino room, the Vietnamese room. It was so so strange. No women, no straights, all gay dudes, all segregated.

I went to a house party in Silver Lake and it was 80 men, all white, all bearded, all gay, all 35. Including myself! How does this come to happen? It’s so weird to me.

Yesterday I went for a long walk with a close friend (straight, poly, 50, famous for his enormous cock). He told me he’s having a Date With A Man this week— his first! He said he’s interested in sucking dick. He claims to be “a vagina expert” and he wants to branch out.

I told him my feeling that the best part about being gay is being topped, and that should be a priority. I talked to him about the gloriousness of douching, and self fucking (therapeutically, to keep the anus pliant), and the magical feeling of walking home after being fucked and feeling like your asshole is smiling. He told me he’d think about it

I just got home from an organizing meeting with two straight friends, one older and divorced woman and one guy around my age with a wife and two kids under the age of 5, who were crawling around and over us as we ate pizza and planned an event for the fall. Most of my straight friends are confined to poetry and writing— I actually don’t get along with the majority of gay writers in Philly, though in the Bay, many of my friends are queer in some form.

I also work out and climb with mostly straight people, both men and women.

A few years ago, I booked a huge converted barn in the Catskills and invited our closest friends to join us for New Years plus a few days. The makeup of this gathering is pretty much indicative of my general collection of friends— one transmasc gay couple, one cis gay couple, one lesbian flying solo, two straight couples, and one straight woman flying solo. In other words, including T and myself, we had a completely equal mix between gay and straight. I never understood separatism!
l

idk because sexual differences aren't the only things that define us. I talk to my best friends about music, movies, restaurants, clothes, vacations -- the usual banal stuff.

― hungover beet poo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, July 10, 2025 12:32 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i'm curious what makes you feel like they're your best friends while you also characterize your conversations with them as "banal". surely you aren't bored by hanging out with them? maybe i asked the wrong question--what is it about them that makes em your best friends? what do you share with each other? what are you bonded by?

of course sexual differences aren't the only things that define us. i'm lucky in that i've had special connections with a few straight guys in my life. one i've been reconnecting with lately and it's been a delight. he's married with a kid and i've been able to enjoy that for him, while i've been able to share fitness and spiritual stuff in return. a second guy i had over for dinner a few years ago and we still like posts from each other and dm occasionally. he lives 30 minutes from here with his wife and two kids. we initially bonded over music in high school (sonic youth) but also just because he's a creative, charming, positive guy into the outdoors and we shared some fun road trips together.

it does make sense to me that straight and queer lifestyles are different enough that .. maintaining a certain kind of gay friendship over time might be easier? and i mean so many relationships start with a fuck. if i were fucking guys from a younger age and then those were turning into friendships i'd probably have a bigger, more exclusively queer social group too. it's definitely important for me to be in mixed company socially .. i'd say occasionally lol. but it's also been really cool to get to know more gays at an exclusively gay male and trans male event every month. it feels relationally important if that makes sense, it gives me access to stories that are closer to my own. while mixed company feels "i am part of humanity" important.

The whole point of acceptance is to integrate! Like, I didn't endure pain coming out so I could crawl back into a hole.

You were trying to get at another type of hole

i'm curious what makes you feel like they're your best friends while you also characterize your conversations with them as "banal". surely you aren't bored by hanging out with them? maybe i asked the wrong question--what is it about them that makes em your best friends? what do you share with each other? what are you bonded by?

No, these are valid questions. I meant "banal" in the sense that most friendships depend on a steady diet of exchanging banalities and profundities. I can talk to them about anything, too, with the exception of the specifics of gay sex and on occasion gay relationships. They're my best friends.

I should also point out: I'm friends or at least friendly with just about all my former boyfriends.

You were trying to get at another type of hole

― czech hunter biden's laptop (the table is the table),

and it worked!

Also, correct me, please, but am I the only regular gay ILXer still single? That matters too.

I guess I don’t relate at all to what map is talking about— I like being around gay people and it’s nice to have some shared experiences, yes, but finding gay men who share interests and politics with me is difficult. When I hooked up with a guy at a bar a few months ago, I was so relieved afterwards when I found out he was a DSA member and an outspoken anti-Zionist Jew.

Same here. Of my ten closest friends, five of them are exes (one of them my last girlfriend, 22 years ago). It’s helpful to have exes as best friends! they give you the best relationship advice and vice versa

This sentence ("it feels relationally important if that makes sense, it gives me access to stories that are closer to my own. while mixed company feels 'i am part of humanity' important") rings true. I do crave and do get conversations about What Happened Last Night and about shared gay experiences; but these days when I meet new gay men I'm, to repeat, struck by how segregated they are.

Xp to Alfo about staying friends with exes

Like, I don’t want to be all Edmund White up in here because I find him and his schtick oppressive and snobby, but like— I haven’t met many gay guys whom I have anything in common with, other than being gay. I am totally uninterested in being friends with someone just because we both like dick.

otm

Some of the most self-involved and least literate men are Miami gays.

No you don’t say

(Jk)

Listen

xp what i remember from going out in l.a. (the eagle, faultline, the gold coast (rip), the levi/leather bar in the valley) was that it was always pretty mixed. but i think i remember encountering some of what you're talking about. also this was 15 years ago. our dear donna rouge might have some perspective on this.

t your friend group sounds awesome. do you think there are any general reasons why you get along more with straight writers than with gay writers?

Most of my straight male friends, tbh, I think they feel very comfortable around me to talk about topics that might be atypical in hetero-male interactivity. Sexual health, mid-life crises, masturbation habits, mental health, these are common topics between myself and my straight male friends. One of the best things about gayness is the capacity for male-male emotional intimacy, and I like that certain of my straight male friends feel comfortable engaging with me on that level

oh those are big xposts.

i know what you guys are saying, like, just because someone is gay doesn't mean we're gonna jibe - i'm looking for a personality not a sexuality and people who make their sexuality their personality are super annoying.

One of the best things about gayness is the capacity for male-male emotional intimacy, and I like that certain of my straight male friends feel comfortable engaging with me on that level

yeah this is a big part of what constitutes the intimacy with my bros. Too many straight guys back away from that sort of confidence unless it's laced with piles and piles of jokes.

Re writers: I'm part of the rock crit community, for better or worse, and while the women are powerful the straight guys still dominate.

these days when I meet new gay men I'm, to repeat, struck by how segregated they are.

i think i get what you're saying. the buzzword with my friends is "queer community". idk i've only ever seen loud geese at bars. is "queer community" "we dm each other on insta and try to do poly"? i tell ya what, i'm having a "meh" moment with poly right now. my friend is opening up his relationship and it's been a struggle and he's been talking my ear off about it and they're making a lot of progress and i'm happy for him. i'm still dealing with the fact that i lost a major romance. if i ever get involved with another person besides my sweet simple ride-or-die it's not gonna be just anyone i can tell you that. it's honestly very rare that i have real chemistry with someone else. physical type is an extremely unreliable indicator. still i've been acting like i'm "looking for someone" online lately. i think it's just an instinct to try to fill the loss.

i'm training two gay friends at the gym on saturdays and i've realized part of the appeal for them is i'm a muscle daddy. i mean, i'm me, but that's my look. and i'm ok with working that a little bit, i like it or i wouldn't look that way. but like one of them is kinda putting out "i'm interested" vibes and i'm just not. it's weird it feels lonely when you're looking for a deeper connection and guys just want to get in your pants. i realize i probably sound annoying complaining about such devastating problems lol.

meanwhile i'm fb chatting with some guy on a base in antarctica. he sent me half-nudes. and a video of him opening the latch to a pitch-black blizzard outside. he's there until october. plans on going to palm springs in december or january. "nice we make it down there occasionally." only if an extra grand suddenly dropped in my lap. i've been to palm springs quite a bit. i seem to like the types of guys who go to palm springs, who live in palm springs. bearish, boring middle class dad types who like the desert. that is who i basically am. minus the middle class part. am i destined to live in palm springs? last time i checked i didn't even like it that much. lord knows i can't afford it. it'd be a lot better than here. ok that's the end of my blues number, thanks for sticking around.

When I've introduced younger friends or tricks to them, they tell me they're surprised or are visibly uncomfortable, which is strange to me (but which I understand).

Alfred, that sucks!! I'm sorry :(

Most of my straight male friends, tbh, I think they feel very comfortable around me to talk about topics that might be atypical in hetero-male interactivity. Sexual health, mid-life crises, masturbation habits, mental health, these are common topics between myself and my straight male friends. One of the best things about gayness is the capacity for male-male emotional intimacy, and I like that certain of my straight male friends feel comfortable engaging with me on that level

I think this has been a baseline requirement for being my friend regardless of orientation ... well, diff topics, but it doesn't matter
tho it's been pointed out that there are lots of people who think of me as their friend but I am oblivious :(

and yeah my ex (ltr) is my best friend and on friendly terms with most exes (str)
I am single if that's what you call not dating or having sex

I talk to my best friends about music, movies, restaurants, clothes, vacations -- the usual banal stuff.

I can't be bothered and admit that I will get angry and resentful if one of my friends spends more than a couple of minutes on banalities ('why am I here? I would feel free rn if I was alone')
I mean it's good if they go deep on these topics and have perceptive things to say, otherwise nah

I live in the city where I grew up and a lot of my friends here are the straight people I grew up with :)
I have noticed that "queer communities" tend to be made up of transplants, or people who came here for college or something idk

I've had friend groups with high queer ratios tho. like when i was working at an occult store, that was like a family and I'd go up there on my days off just to hang out. all of the men connected to that group were gay except one (the owner was a lesbian, otherwise most of the women were straight). of the men, I was closest to the one straight guy by far. because all the gay guys hit on me relentlessly.

it's weird it feels lonely when you're looking for a deeper connection and guys just want to get in your pants.

no no I get it

so like, I think everyone's takes on this are "vmic" or at least somewhat consistent
& Alfred i get the impression from your internet persona that you are very friendly and easy to get along with, that you're generally good at finding common ground with most people and focusing on the positive things about other people and your interactions with them. it would make sense that you have a lot of friendships where you don't necessarily have a ton of stuff in common. I see you as someone who's generally empathetic and good at bridging the gaps.

one of the reasons i like kink is that it requires very explicit negotiation.

ok backing up quite a lot here sorry, but this is fucking brilliant

oh but the point was I think your friends kind of owe it to you to get over their weird hangups

I smoked some weed, and had a good idea, that the police should be defunded and formally replaced with the Big Dick Police:

911, what’s your emergency

I need dick

What’s your location

Male-male emotional Intimacy doesn’t have to be verbal tho, i am down with the kind of friendships where you just roll around on the couch and giggle a lot
Some of my best friends are dogs

xp what i remember from going out in l.a. (the eagle, faultline, the gold coast (rip), the levi/leather bar in the valley) was that it was always pretty mixed. but i think i remember encountering some of what you're talking about. also this was 15 years ago. our dear donna rouge might have some perspective on this.

also rip the faultline. what fgti describes is probably true for parts of LA but not the parts i tend to hang out in. was recently at a house party that was majority gay guys but within that was fairly mixed, at least in terms of ages and ethnic backgrounds. i used to really bristle at social situations where it was only or mostly gay men but i’ve sort of come to appreciate and enjoy it now. idk maybe my thing is most of my closest male friends have been straight guys for so long that i’m now really craving gay male friendship/connection. or something. i was also randomly thinking about straight-gay male intimacy earlier via a vis a friend I don’t really talk to anymore but i’ll return to that when i’m not about to fall asleep

I did enough dating in my 20s to know that I am not socially compatible with a huge chunk of gay men out there.

My friend group is very mixed - mostly women but plenty of straight men and a handful of gays. I know a lot of bisexual women but not many bisexual men. My friends serve different purposes - there are some I would never talk about certain things with but there's different things I would talk about with others, and collectively I am very fulfilled by them in my life. I am very lucky.

One of my best friends is in many ways a caricature of a #lad - pints, football, rock music. He's also the most sweet, thoughtful, sincere and honest person I know. He's more sensitive than any outdated stereotype of a traditional gay man.

Alfred i get the impression from your internet persona that you are very friendly and easy to get along with, that you're generally good at finding common ground with most people and focusing on the positive things about other people and your interactions with them. it would make sense that you have a lot of friendships where you don't necessarily have a ton of stuff in common. I see you as someone who's generally empathetic and good at bridging the gaps.

blushed hard when I read this, Deflatermouse, thank you. I think I have a talent for friendship. When I see someone I like I go hard and I usually know if it's gonna work out long-term. Probably why I like reading at bars.

t your friend group sounds awesome. do you think there are any general reasons why you get along more with straight writers than with gay writers?

well, i wrote a long response and then deleted it by accident, but the gist of it was: most of my close friends aren’t writers, and i am rare in the poetry world in that my partner isn’t a writer— in fact, i have never dated another writer.

as far as gay writers, about 30% of my writer friends are trans girls, about 15% are gay dudes, and the rest are cis straight men and women.

the reasons behind it are related to my general way in the world— while interested in pop music and dancing, yes, i am pretty uninterested in the other trappings of “gay life” in the world. just because something in the culture is gay doesn’t mean it holds any interest for me, and i think that for whatever reason, that sets me off from other gay dudes— i tend to fall in love with and fall into friendships with weirdos who don’t fit in.

well, i do like dressing like an absolute slut, and i love pornography and filth, but again, a lot of my gayness is more informed by punk than it is by mainstream culture.

blushed hard when I read this, Deflatermouse,

Omg sorry

Well but the point was it is evident that some of us make steeper demands than I think you do as a condition of friendship, and I’m wondering if we are then less likely to become close to straight people who are weirded out by our sexual preferences, whatever the makeup of our friend groups. or maybe it's just me lol

i am pretty uninterested in the other trappings of “gay life” in the world. just because something in the culture is gay doesn’t mean it holds any interest for me, and i think that for whatever reason, that sets me off from other gay dudes— i tend to fall in love with and fall into friendships with weirdos who don’t fit in.

Yeah. this is reminding me that one downside of making such demands is, the huge majority of people I encounter face to face are basically invisible to me. If I see them at all, I see them as a threat. well shit, I need to work on that. Tbc, I don’t care if someone “looks cool” or if they know who Jim O’Rourke is, but I am very far away from the mainstream ideologically. I’m very anti-work, anti-money, anti-consumption. I find it especially difficult to be tolerant and accepting of others whose participation in capitalism is more enthusiastic than a struggle to get by. Just anecdotally, the straight people in my life who share these values tend not to have kids and I can’t think of anyone with more than one kid. It’s a self-marginalizing stance to take in some ways and those with big families have unavoidably chosen a wider lane.

I def find friendships that are *not* based on shared interests more emotionally rewarding. When they are, I try very hard to steer conversations away from nerding out. One of the best experiences I ever had socially was a group that came together through ‘meetups with strangers’. The one thing all had in common was a willingness or eagerness to have open hearted and open minded conversations with total strangers. Taking extreme vulnerability as our starting point, almost equivalent to that trust exercise where you fall backwards and someone has to catch you. no conversational banalities ever, but surprisingly light and fun hangs for how deeply stimulating and supportive they could be.
And I think some or most people in this group would have been invisible, if not unacceptable to me otherwise - several of them were working on tech startups (ughh)!

Miami is so intimidating to me. One of my high school friends went to college in Miami and played in a kind of indie-disco-funk band down there that was very successful locally, as I understood it. On a visit to NYC he saw one of my bands play at Club Luxx or somewhere like that, and like the third song in our set was a super drone-y 10 minute psychedelic noise piece. Afterwards he said, 'oh man, I'm so jealous that you can get away with doing that kind of shit here, in Miami you have to keep everyone dancing or they won't let you play". that's the thing I always think of. That and like establishing shots of tan, fit people rollerblading in beachwear from season 4 of The Real World