Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

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looking t it from the other direction, JH filled a slot that the broadsheets felt needed filling: of someone known for being on top of how pop worked being let loose to comment on politics, to hoover up a particular sector of the readership

mark s, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 21:32 (two years ago)

Richard Williams was the Guardian's chief sports writer for a while, and iirc he did have a sports column from time to time, but yes, nothing on politics that I remember.

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 21:35 (two years ago)

rw's also one of an interesting gang of music writers who graduated to writing abt motorsports: him, kerrang!! editor and inventor of heavy metal geoff barton, the nme's latterday editor conor mcnicholas and friend of the pod hazel southwell

mark s, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 21:40 (two years ago)

Sorry no ofc just in the sense of another press (in this case the music press) being a feeder for the main newspaper press. But yes RW moved from music to sports xp

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 21:44 (two years ago)

that's not at all so rare -- really quite of lot of editorial staffers from the music press ended up as commissioning editors or whatever in at the big papers, the skills are very transferrable

and of course the legendary bob houston worked at MM in the early 70s then founded the shortlived rock monthly cream (not the same as CREEM), then afterwards ran the miner, the journal for the NUM, at the same time as devising and creating started (the very successful) royalty magazine

mark s, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 21:51 (two years ago)

bcz he was a communist who also liked the queen

mark s, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 21:57 (two years ago)

I started buying Select in 1994 when I was 14 and spent two years completely obsessed, it was my gateway to much of the music I love, every page seemed so filled with originality, creativity and excitement for the new. Then in late 1996 it shifted into a music-themed lads mag, Oasis were on the cover every other issue, with Ocean Colour Scene, Paul Weller and The Verve on the others. Anything northern / macho / straight was good, anything arty or weird was worthy of nothing but contempt. It was JH that did this, and then he then appointed himself official historian of the scene he did his best to shit up. His brexitland safari pieces show the same arrogant, patronising, uncomprehending tone he had when writing about class in music in the 90s. Fuck him forever.

Camaraderie at Arms Length, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 22:23 (two years ago)

Isn't part of Harris's whole career project that elision/collision of the "values" (really more accurately the vibes) of Britpop and New Labour. A nexus he did as much as anybody to will into being?

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 22:40 (two years ago)

i blame alan mcgee

mark s, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 22:45 (two years ago)

where's doomie when you need him

mark s, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 22:45 (two years ago)

McGee sees the business opportunity but Harris is the LOOK I'M NOT GONNA SAY GOEBBELS I'M TRYING TO NOT JUST BE SPEWING HATE BUT REALLY THE GOEBBELS of the project

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 22:48 (two years ago)

He means it, maaaaan

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 22:48 (two years ago)

The 4th Estate editor in place at the time had the thesis of the Britpop/New Lab book all ready to go from around 1996. I’m sure they spoke to loads of writers but I was the first to go in for a meeting about writing it, and then sent to meet the guy who was a popstar fixer for New Labour before the ‘97 election.

Much as I would’ve liked to do it, I had to pass because none of the groups were at a point where they could discuss themselves - they were all too busy getting hooked on or getting clean from various drugs, and I felt it was way too invasive to interrogate anyone about at that time. Nearly two years later, most of them were ready to talk to JH.

put a VONC on it (suzy), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 23:23 (two years ago)

bcz he was a communist who also liked the queen

― mark s, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 bookmarkflaglink

This is an underrated post btw

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 09:25 (two years ago)

Richard Williams was, as I recall, an excellent presence at Mark S's music conference. He said something funny about meeting Lou Reed. (I hope I am not imagining this.)

Every time I hear about Williams the message is positive: that he is humane and generous.

I liked his sports writing also.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 10:55 (two years ago)

was John the Baptist for Whispering Bob Harris

Bully King and Chips (Bananaman Begins), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 10:59 (two years ago)

I think the closest I've seen him to losing his rag on twitter was in response to someone posting a schoolboy comment when he announced he had nearly finished writing his Dick Seaman book.

calzino, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 13:15 (two years ago)

LOL hopefully he will follow it up with a book on Dick Hyman.

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 13:19 (two years ago)

I've exchanged a few emails with Williams; I interviewed him for this piece because he was present at the gig documented on an archival live album. Nice guy. Knows a lot about jazz.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 14:42 (two years ago)

yes, indeed he does. It would be fair to say his taste in music is 100% less conservative than JH who is 21 years his junior.

calzino, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 15:24 (two years ago)

The Blue Moment is a great book that opened up a lot of new music for me.

fetter, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 15:49 (two years ago)

years ago when i was an arrogant young pup at the wire i gave his book on miles davis a snarky review -- i'd have to look up why now tbh, probably he didn't like DARK MAGUS enough or some bullshit -- and he dropped me a funny and gracious postcard in response

(i made sure to bring this up when we chatted at the conference pinefox mentions bcz honestly it made such a good impression, he had every right to be a dick back at me lol)

mark s, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 15:54 (two years ago)

This all reminded me of Mark S's conference. It was a good day (the first day that is, I couldn't be at the second) partly because of a marvellous assortment of different people: academics, fans, people with some kind of scholarly interest in rock writing perhaps, but also ... a load of veterans from ILM / ILX. There was something delightful about the London ILX FAP presence in the academic space.

And ultimately Mark S made a very substantial book from it.

the pinefox, Thursday, 12 January 2023 11:47 (two years ago)

Simon Jenkins: a qualified, distinguished journo.

"Despite spending billions on digitisation, the NHS is in the dark ages of the internet – as we witnessed during Covid. Patients have become far better informed at self-diagnosis. There will be exceptions, but the internet can often guide people to tests, pharmacies and treatment centres without the need for laborious referrals."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/10/wes-streeting-nhs-money-health-gps-patients-?

xyzzzz__, Friday, 13 January 2023 21:30 (two years ago)

OOC quote could be an accurate and nonjudgmental description of the explosion of DIY transition in the wake of the collapse of the pretense of trans healthcare

but no it's just rank apologism for privatisation and the red tories - are guardian columnists the only people who still like this party? or are they just paid to pretend they believe all this shit?

your original display name is still visible (Left), Friday, 13 January 2023 21:51 (two years ago)

Patients have become far better informed at self-diagnosis.

Is there one shred of evidence to support this? I say this as someone who was dismissed by a GP for a health concern which an online forum helped me successfully diagnose.

kinder, Friday, 13 January 2023 22:19 (two years ago)

what Wes really wants is Specsavers but for life-threatening illness

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Friday, 13 January 2023 22:48 (two years ago)

Medicine is an extremely complex and difficult process. It seems to me that some patients might be able to self-diagnose on more minor matters, but on anything serious, surely trained professionals are needed. Even if you can successfully diagnose a serious illness in yourself, you won't be able to do anything about it without doctors.

the pinefox, Saturday, 14 January 2023 12:32 (two years ago)

assuming doctors take you seriously which isn't necessarily a given

your original display name is still visible (Left), Saturday, 14 January 2023 12:51 (two years ago)

one current area of the NHS where patients can to some extent refer themselves directly to a specialist is mental health services. it's not exactly the shiny beacon of efficiency that Streeting's talking up

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:03 (two years ago)

it's also, of course, largely outsourced at the practitioner level

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:04 (two years ago)

it's shite but he knows this

your original display name is still visible (Left), Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:09 (two years ago)

there's definitely an ideological social/personal disciplinary element to this (i.e. its not just incompetence or ignorance or irrationality) as with so much new labour and tory policy but other people can theorise this much better than I can

this is basically just cameron's big society though isn't it

your original display name is still visible (Left), Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:14 (two years ago)

Labour are genuinely dangerous. All that shit about "encouraging" sick and disabled people back into the workplace from last week - all I read was quotes from the slimeball shadow-health creep, but it sounds absolutely sinister.

calzino, Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:20 (two years ago)

i'm sure there's a bunch of Streeting-adjacent Labour grownups who would love to bring in the NHS equivalent of tuition fees and they're just waiting for their moment

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:22 (two years ago)

sorry I'm getting Ashworth/Streeting mixed up here. Two of the creepiest bastards in UK politics.

calzino, Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:24 (two years ago)

i like how the "encouraging" message clearly signals that these people are bone idle parasites, which is why Labour will "encourage" them rather than, say, addressing the existing barriers that prevent disabled people who do want paid work from ever having the opportunity

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:25 (two years ago)

meanwhile the DWP continues to keep tens of thousands of people with conditions that make it impossible for them to have any reasonable chance of working on the Intensive Work Search regime

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:27 (two years ago)

there is a need for some reform to make it less treacherous for disabled people to access work, but these people are not the ones to trust with it. All I can envisage is more cuts and more deaths behind the bullshit soundbites.

calzino, Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:30 (two years ago)

yeah that's precisely my point, disabled people are doubly disadvantaged - those that want to work are routinely discriminated against by employers and the job market as a whole, those who don't feel able to work are routinely discriminated against by the government and its agencies

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:32 (two years ago)

in the same way that there was a kernel of enlightened progressive thinking behind "inclusion" until successive governments realised it was a great smokescreen for closing important specialist schools and colleges

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:34 (two years ago)

Patients have become far better informed at self-diagnosis.

Is there one shred of evidence to support this? I say this as someone who was dismissed by a GP for a health concern which an online forum helped me successfully diagnose.

― kinder, Friday, 13 January 2023 bookmarkflaglink

If there is evidence Jenkins doesn't let us know. If you are going to change how healthcare is delivered 'google/AI will replace a doctor' needs work.

But ofc it's not about that.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:44 (two years ago)

among this bunch of fantastic and rich western democracies in the G7, I've seen multiple graphs illustrating that the UK has measliest and most punitive benefits system. And probably is the worst so called wealthy country for disabled people to live in amongst them. This is something (no it wasn't really that much better before 2010) that has been a cross party project for decades, and now the opposition party are basically saying that level of Cameron austerity is the best we can realistically expect. No wonder some people just give up altogether.

calzino, Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:50 (two years ago)

I managed to survive the last few rounds of culling-the-surplus-population (if you call this living) but it feels like I'm on borrowed time

your original display name is still visible (Left), Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:53 (two years ago)

i feel like the social presence of the self-informed has an increasingly massive weight in the whole of present-day politics, given the fact of a colossal and ever-expanding archive of information (which is often intensely contested of course)

it is for example at the root of the distaste for "populism" and the worry at the swelling (often-partisan) distrust of technocratic expertise -- the culture-wars assault on facts and logic blah blah

what's the politics of this as a general effect? "too early to tell" — zhou enlai

mark s, Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:55 (two years ago)

my partner probably hasn't got that long left to live, is wracked with MS and is developing dementia. A DWP letter dropped the other day to inform her that they are only just starting a PIP renewal review, 2 years after the form was sent in. I'm not taking it for granted that the renewal will be successful. That's how shite the system is.

calzino, Saturday, 14 January 2023 13:59 (two years ago)

without going into too much personal work-life detail let me just say that the DWP is in full "hassling people to get jobs by referring them - often against their will - to job support schemes that are frequently inappropriate" mode

Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 January 2023 14:03 (two years ago)

That shit makes my blood boil calz, sorry you’re all going through it

pilk/pall revolting odors (wins), Saturday, 14 January 2023 14:18 (two years ago)

Left too and anyone else on the sharp end of these cunts’ miseries

pilk/pall revolting odors (wins), Saturday, 14 January 2023 14:19 (two years ago)

Fucking hell calz, my heart goes out to you. This is appalling.

bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 14 January 2023 14:19 (two years ago)


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