ILX Film Club, The (1924-2019)

I'll for sure chime in even if I haven't given the movie a fresh watch. (But I'll try my best to give each film a fresh watch.)

^ditto (except for this part)

I've been slowly watching the ones I haven't seen from the S&S top 100. It's only about 10 (though I might not see Peele's "Get Out" as I don't fancy it and it's obviously going to drop off next time).

Might extend it to the 250.

Another 40 on the rest. Would watch most of it bar Blue by Jarman. Fuck that shit.

Or Annie Hall.

Why Blue? I've always meant to "watch" that as I love a few of his other films.

xp Yeah this same project 20 years ago would have at least four or five Woody Allen films on the list, instead of zero.

I find Jarman's films to be pretty exasperating, and I feel I will hate it even when the subject matter is sad.

xp

i will try to participate, when i can! i find it really difficult to take part in film discussions, for various reasons, but i do enjoy watching them. i'm no kind of old-school buff but, due to the ilx influence (and using morbs' letterboxd list) i've seen a lot of the earlier films here, and within the last several months, to boot. it'll be nice to give them a rewatch so soon after my first encounter with them.

Sherlock Jr. is perfectly 45 minutes long

Or Annie Hall.
― xyzzzz

I'm probably one of the few (only?) people on here who was heartened to see Annie Hall show up. Not defending Woody Allen, just glad there are some people left who can make that distinction between the person and the film (easier with Rosemary's Baby/Chinatown, I think, just because they're so much better as films; also, Polanski's largely invisible, though he does have the cameo in Chinatown).

For some other thread, I know.

I think that this film club needs to do the On The Buses film trilogy to truly capture how it was in Ted Heath's Pre & Post EEC Britain.

I think we can all agree that the ending to Annie Hall is, in effect, a happy one

"just glad there are some people left who can make that distinction between the person and the film (easier with Rosemary's Baby/Chinatown, I think, just because they're so much better as films; also, Polanski's largely invisible"

I wouldn't watch a Polanski film nowadays either, Clemenza. I have no interest in supporting their work while these people are alive.

I think that this film club needs to do the On The Buses film trilogy to truly capture how it was in Ted Heath's Pre & Post EEC Britain.

― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Friday, 10 February 2023 bookmarkflaglink

We just have to step outside for that, these days..

I’m in

I think we can all agree that the ending to _Annie Hall_ is, in effect, a happy one

Ugh, for some reason, I ventured outside this safe haven and ended up interacting with Jeffrey Wells. Not pleasant.

Yeah I'm in, tho can't promise to keep up every week - one objective I have this year is to watch more films from the rest of the world than US films overall and while these lists are varied and wonderful I fear they'd still land me on the wrong side of that in the end.

Why does ILX hate L'Atalante so much?

Is this true?

Yes, fuck all canal barges.

Alba can you tell which ilxors are hating I'll bully them for you.

Ha ha I was just making a glib comment after seeing the spreadsheet and noticing tha it placed relatively well in the S&S top 100s but nowhere with ILX.

I think that applies even more to Beau Travail but I was looking at the early films.

Gonna watch Beau Travail in a proper theater next week -- my first non-DVD/streaming experience w/it!

While everyone's gearing up, a reasonably engaging quiz:

Try this quiz - https://t.co/yyLpPtjiKP pic.twitter.com/fdHFKTXEpL

— DVDBeaver (@DVDBeaver) February 11, 2023

66/100. I raced through it, probably wouldn't have done much better if I'd taken my time (I either knew it or guessed--though I would have gone back and changed a few guesses based on subsequent answers).

more mainstream:
https://www.cinenerdle2.app/

68/100. Projectionist but no professor. But what's wrong with being a projectionist?

Wtf, I'm boycotting this quiz

Reasoning?

Putting professors above projectionists!

Ah!

96/100 and only because I accidentally put Jacques Rivette when I meant François Truffaut

Check out the big brain on Brad!

77/100 -- a couple of dumb mistakes on movies I've seen, a couple of lucky guesses on movies I haven't seen

71, though at least half were guesses.

(Some of them informed guesses, though.)

76. About five films I did see and couldn't place grr

88. Nailed every one I knew, every guess I guessed wrong

Oh and messed up Spike Lee . Just couldn't place that image in that film somehow

84/100!

I guessed on most of the contemporary Asian stuff, which rarely payed off. And I got the Black female directors all switched around. The only film I've seen that I miscredited was Death of Mr. Lazarescu.

I just exchanged texts with my friend who actually is a projectionist but did not mention this quiz.

I got 89. several of them were guesses based on what I know about the filmmakers’ visual aesthetics or the time periods from the images. I got several directors mixed up - Mizoguchi and Kobayashi, Kazan and Wyler, Etrice and Saura and others. I guessed Larisa Shepitko’s The Ascent correctly only because I have recently seen stills from it on twitter, but I haven’t watched it. Also still have yet to watch Djibril Diop Mambéty’s films, a few of which are on Kanopy, or Cheryl Dunye’s The Watermelon Woman

My projectionist friend told me about this yesterday:
https://framed.wtf

oh, it's a one-per-day thing, like wordle

Yes. I only started doing it yesterday.

But I like, I like.

I love Framed but I get annoyed every time a Marvel movie zilches my overall record

The length of it feels fine

should explain that I somehow haven't seen it before

It flies by. Not a second overlong.

I wouldn't rank Seven Samurai in my Kurosawa top five.

I probably wouldn't either, but that's more about how many great films the dude has.

It is a bit sad that this is The One because there's a lot of more accessible intros - Yojimbo, Stray Dog, Ikiru.

The samurai film genre is interesting because if you compare it to the western, even though Ford and Hawks and etc certainly had moments where they questioned the myths there are a few decades' worth of films that mostly celebrate those myths, and so when the revisionist western rolls around we know what it's revising. But the samurai film, for a western audience, only comes into vogue in the postwar era, and so it's a generation of writers and directors who grew up with the samurai sprit being part of govt wartime propaganda and so it's pretty much all revisionism, very few movies come to mind where bushido is seen as anything other than a sick joke. At some point it just becomes part of the trope.

Donald Richie's book on Kurosawa is essential reading, and not surprisingly the chapter on Seven Samurai is great. (It may have been his favorite Kurosawa film - he usually listed it as one of his favorite films, period.)

I think it's very compelling to look at how WWII impacted Japanese films and how Japanese films grappled with the aftermath, especially now in light of the current rise of nationalism in certain parts of the world (like ours). Generally speaking, I never found comparisons between Japanese period epics and American Westerns all that interesting, but comparing The Seven Samurai to the American films it inspired (not just The Magnificent Seven but also Saving Private Ryan) does seem edifying in highlighting the differences in history and culture. The Seven Samurai always seemed like a great war film to me - nine years isn't that far removed from the end of WWII, and I was left with the impression that a defeated country was far more likely to re-examine and interrogate the culture surrounding war in ways that a proud and jingoistic country would not like to do. The myriad class conflicts and moral hypocrisies are either watered down or stripped away in something like The Magnificent Seven (turning samurai/military officers into "gunfighters" will do that), but they're always there in The Seven Samurai.

Kikuchiyo gun stealing scene the heart of this movie. Stunning end shot with the Katanas in the graves

The horses in this movie reminded me of the horse(s) in Andrei Rublev. Put me off, for what were some great scenes. hmph. I did eat stake for dinner though so I'm a bit of a simpleton in this way

I like my stake either well done or in the ground.

Rear window is a movie that I had seen so many parodies of that end at first reveal (most famously the Simpsons, but so many others), so the second part suddenly felt really disorienting!

the moment the man looks out of the screen at the audience is so crazy the first time you see it,

and the film is incredible in how it seems to surface filmic epistemologies in an instantly graspable way that can't be untangled from the film's dramatic dynamism! Sorry for the turgid way of phrasing that but I think its clear what I mean???

That said there's something that really 'wears off' about the effect that is very different from e.g. Vertigo, where it burrows down into your subconscious (why does she take the backdoor to the florist???). I think this one relies too much on a central trick or conceit, very A minus grade Hitchcock. There's also something about how its been parodied that gives it a flat, repackagable quality although that's not really its fault. Its a shame because its got so much good stuff in it (thelma ritter, wendell corey, Dior by Head and barbara bel geddes designing gravity defying bras etc) but i could probably never see it again and I wouldn't lose sleep.

seven samurai is so good and to me so obviously one of the best kurosawas so i'm curious what people who think this mid level would put ahead of it

Vertigo wears me down at the hour mark. Acts I and III are strange and powerful

What I'd rank over Seven Samurai:

Red Beard
The Bad Sleep Well
Throne of Blood
Stray Dog
High and Low

lol high and low is fun but bad

the scenes where they're all shouting at each other about shoes are really funny so i'll allow it

so much melodrama for the sake of a shoe mogul!

lol xpost

The shoe business can be a great setting for tragedy: see Bastards by Claire Denis.

yeah i remember the shoe company stuff being kind of dull, but the police procedural half of the movie is excellent

High & Low is my 2nd fave Kurosawa

Ran and High & Low are my fave Kurosawa's

High and Low and Ran are among my very favorite Kurosawa films too (along with The Seven Samurai, Rashomon, Ikiru and maybe a couple of others. I have no desire to actually rank them, they're all great films doing very different things.

Ran's in my top ten.

It's in my top 10 ... of 1985

I need to see "The Bad Sleep Well"

FWIW, if there's ever a 35mm print of Ran playing at a repertory theater near you, it's definitely worth seeing. Obviously an epic is going to play better in a theater, but the current restoration that's being used in all DCP's, streaming and Blu-ray/UHD masters is marred by dubious color grading, something older film curators have pointed out given their familiarity with the oft-programmed film.

is Ran the one where there was an actual typhoon while they were filming and Kurosawa was like "we can use this"

It was, Tracer. Kurosawa so great in utilising the weather in his movies. Stray Dog - sweatiest movie ever made?

The rain really was the 8th samurai of this movie

fist pumped every time that deep sloshing mud came on screen

Few directors use movement as masterfully as Kurosawa, and his use of weather is tied to that. (IIRC the rain in Seven Samurai was completely generated - definitely planned.) One standard trick he knows well is how mixing furious or chaotic movement with stillness (or close to stillness) can amplify the emotional impact of any given moment. The rainy climax in The Seven Samurai has such moments (like right after the battle is over), but there are times where Kurosawa will have his characters simply stand there and look and he contrasts that with flags furiously rippling in the wind, or he'll have them next to a bonfire that'll have a lot of movement (either in the smoke or the rippling of the flames or the light). Other moments - in Ran when the emperor leaves his palace in a daze, his face frozen and the invading army just standing before him while all that smoke and fire ripples apocalyptically into the sky. IIRC the climax of Yojimbo has Mifune standing in opposition of the others, and again just standing around but you have a strong wind swirling all that dust. I almost want to compare it to the tension you might feel if you knew an earthquake was building up in the still earth beneath your feet.

I guess I should try again with Kurosawa. I’ve only seen a couple but found them kind of boring.

Which ones?

FWIW, I've seen Kurosawa get knocked down a few pegs simply because he's gotten so much more praise in the U.S. than Ozu and Mizoguchi. I think mainstream critics typically gravitated towards Kurosawa during his lifetime - I have a vague recollection of Roger Ebert and the staff at Entertainment Weekly more or less calling him Japan's greatest filmmaker - and a much higher percentage of his films are available to U.S. audiences. A big factor may be Spielberg and Lucas - at the height of their careers, they championed him endlessly as an enormous influence, so I'm sure that raised his profile.

Richard Brody of The New Yorker flat out wrote that he's "certainly not in the same artistic league with either Ozu or Mizoguchi." I suppose I would agree, but I also think it's also an incredibly uncharitable assessment.

Yeah, Kurosawa's experienced a counter-revolution in the last 30 years as Naruse, Mizoguchi, and Ozu's films have become available. He's "not human" in that Renoir vein or something.

There's also the fact that Kurosawa's movies are full of gangsters and swordplay, which gives them a crossover appeal to genre audiences...though frankly Kurosawa's non-violent dramas are great too.

Overall though I'd say Kurosawa, Ozu and Mizoguchi are all still benefiting from the lack of availability of so much from the golden age of Japanese cinema - I'd say at this point the Japanese New Wave is even more well represented. Take someone like Tomu Uchida - according to Kinema Junpo he made the second greatest film in the history of Japanese cinema, but how many of his movies have you seen?

Also gonna do that annoying reductress "men gets little charge out of telling ppl John Lennon beat his wife" thing and mention again that, when Japanese actress Kinuyo Tanaka embarked on her (very good) directorial career, Ozu and Naruse supported her in the press and during shooting, while Mizoguchi went to the papers to decry his star actress as "limited" and tried his best to blackball her from working altogether.

He also tried to get a 13-year old John Lennon to intervene.

For many years, Kurosawa, Mizoguchi and Ozu were the big three Japanese directors, so it's natural that they'd be pitted against each other. I'd take Oshima over them all myself.

Which ones?

Yojimbo and Dreams, I think, but it was a while ago.

I find them boring too.

Ikiru
Throne Of Blood
Stray Dog
Dreams
Yojimbo
Kagemusha
Seven Samurai
One Wonderful Sunday
Rashomon
Drunken Angel
Sanjuro
Ran
The Men Who Tread On Tiger's Tails

Haven't seen the rest yet. Even the bottom choice here is still far from a bad film tho.

It really needs a reissue (and a restoration) to bring it back into print, but Rhapsody in August is worth catching. Haven't seen it in a long time (maybe high school?) so I'm not sure how the filmmaking would come off now, but at the time it was the first film I saw to really address the use of nuclear weapons to more or less end WWII. Plenty of famous examples pre-date it and according to Wikipedia there was controversy with some vocally criticizing the film's political stance, but at least to me I didn't think it was defending Japan's wrongs with regards to WWII - simply on humanitarian grounds it made a deep impression.

i've bought a copy of that in the last year (currently unwatched)

(the two i'm missing are The Idiot and Dreams)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_vs._the_Spider

why is this not titled "A small town sheriff and high school teacher vs. the spider"