Let's bitch about our stupid, annoying co-workers

is this manager the type of person who will forget all of the things they've assigned you and won't notice if some things aren't finished when they asked?

(cos if so, that's always an idea...lol).

Yeah, I mean I'm sympathetic to the boss' boss also being in a rough position with the relatively abrupt departure at a bad time of year, but there's just no effort to communicate with us, it's just add to the pile, add to the pile, add to the pile. I brought it up lightly and delicately in my last one on one, just to get it out there and test the waters, but the boss' boss immediately switched to a defensive mode that really wasn't productive, so I didn't push it.

Trying to work on the united front thing but it's hard, as a result of the increased workload we are hardly ever in the same together at the same time, much less even schedule time to talk.

I mean, I get it and anticipated this transition period to be a struggle and a little rocky, I just think a productive discussion about the realities would be helpful for all of us. Like, the boss' boss is ultimately the one who looks bad when things fall through the crack, so you'd think they'd want to have a grasp on what feels reasonable.

Yeah, there are definitely some minor things that aren't ultimately important anyway that fall by the wayside, but not enough to make my plate feel any lighter.

that's kinda what I was thinking in a way ... like, if you have a tacit agreement about what things are the most important, then the other things, if you drop the ball and just pass the buck without acrimony ... the "without acrimony" part is key tho, because otherwise you end up with circular firing squad of "well, B didn't do that," and "Oh, you're one to talk, C, you didn't do that other thing."

I feel like managers in general get tunnel vision with their stress rather than 'sharing' the stress with the people below who are also impacted (probably moreso) and turning it more into a team-building opportunity.

one results in everybody being unhappy, the latter results in reduction of stress and finding solutions

sarahell otm.

I just think a productive discussion about the realities would be helpful for all of us. Like, the boss' boss is ultimately the one who looks bad when things fall through the crack, so you'd think they'd want to have a grasp on what feels reasonable.

exactly! no one enjoys failure. So ... let's figure out a way to not fail by being realistic.

Yeah, sarahell definitely otm, the difficulty lies in that working in an academia serving capacity, it can get really tricky to navigate which ones might or might not come back to bite you in the ass. Definitely run into a few cases of someone casually asking me for something and adding, "but only if you get a chance, it's totally understandable if you don't have time now" turn into two weeks later an email to senior leadership about how their request was being "ignored".

oh! that's really great ... ugh

ultimately the goal at work should be to accomplish a task, and when something doesn't go according to plan, to figure out what happened and if it's preventable next time. actually casting blame at an individual should only be a secondary necessity, where in the course of investigating what happened, a significant gaffe or performance issue was identified.

but with wages being flat alongside inflation and growing living expenses and the 'at-will' states many people live in, not to mention the hair-trigger tempers of Executives, I think many employees have sort of been conditioned into a "point fingers first to get the heat off of me" type work environment. (note I'm not excusing this behavior - management and leaders exist so they can create a culture of trust so people DON'T do this backstabby shit - but they themselves are often just as guilty of this if not more!).

Oh it definitely happens a lot, particularly when you get into the complicated relationships that evolve once you have contractors, owner's reps, architects, engineers and others all doing their thing. Fortunately I learned this lesson very early on in my career and I've gotten to be really good at documentation and keeping the receipts.

One of the perks is watching someone shrivel down after their ill-considered finger pointing attempt is stymied by literally one email I've kept.

yeah that's somethign I had to learn very early on. sigh....corporate America!

right now I'm having to deal with what is pretty obviously prejudiced behavior by a class of learners towards an Indian trainer. sadly, although this was my class to supervise, I couldn't for the majority of the last two weeks as they double booked me to lead my own class the first week of April, and I was on PTO all but one day last week, so I had a backup watching (who reported no issues). The other instructor had noticed this and had a message ready to send to me and deleted it (which I wish they wouldn't have).

they basically treat the other instructor differently, going completely silent during activities she leads, not participating, getting side tracked, spending time complaining that they don't get it in chat. and half of them are going behind the instructor's back to the other to ask why she couldn't just train the whole class herself and creating a secret chat to badtalk the BI.

of course I am on PTO tomorrow and simply don't have time to unpack it all today but have a meeting set up next week and am currently working on addressing the behavior going forward. but why are people like this. our company is more progressive than most so this isn't something I expected to see.

had to give constructive feedback to a trainer from last week. I schedule it for yesterday, they accept it. Time for meeting arrives, they don't show, and aren't even online. Manager tells me after the fact they called out sick, but didn't tell me so I could reschedule. Asks me to reschedule for today.

Today, I reschedule it, and she's here and working and accepts, and then right as meeting is supposed to start, again goes afk, and then when I ping her to ask if she's joining, logs off.

not rescheduling a third time, you can just read the feedback via email then. this is someone who tends to melt down with even the mildest feedback too , which is a shame, because it's nothing earth-shattering here.

I think I mentioned itt that the person who I had been reporting to for all five years I've been here left for another job, kind of out of the blue. On the whole, it's a net win because the guy was not great for any number of reasons. However, the one good thing he was doing was including me in some bigger picture planning exercises, something I've been hoping to do and reinforcing in my reviews and one on ones and was kind of a big reason why I took this job in the first place.

Anyway, I had hoped his departure and the wait for his replacement might be a good time to take on more of these responsibilities and prove my worth. I approached the head of our department about it and she was a little vague, but gave some encouraging feedback about wanting to use this time as a chance to completely rethink our department and get me into more of the role I wanted to grow into. I was feeling cautiously optimistic and glad to know we were going to use this change in leadership to rethink some things.

Well, I don't know what the fuck happened in the week and a half after that conversation. Earlier this week she (the head of our department) announced his replacement and that nothing would change, in fact she used the phrase "plug and play" four times in a 15-minute announcement as to how he would slot in exactly into our existing system as-is. I get that it's the path of least resistance from her end, but it was so depressing to know we'd be squandering a good opportunity to rethink some things.

So I approached her again about wanting to take on more of this other role and was essentially told, "yes, I think that would be a great fit for you and I really want you to take that on, but I can't afford to lose you in the position your in right now". Really hard not to read that as, "I know you'd be a better fit in a larger role, but it's more convenient for me that you stay exactly where you are, fuck your career development". Funny that she is worried about losing me in this position, because effectively telling me I have zero chance for advancement is ultimately going to result in that anyway - and definitely in a less beneficial way.

ugh, I'm sorry dude, that is the worst thing asshole managers do.

"I need you here" is such bullshit. If your department is that fragile that someone advancing to a higher position would wreck it, then you don't have a functioning department.

We definitely don't. Our department is running on about a third of the staff we had 5 years ago and about a quarter of what we actually need to successfully handle the volume of work we have, but she gets to look good by running her department cheaply on a shoestring budget.

Even setting aside the personal sting of it, I just don't get that attitude as a manager. Like how the fuck do you think that encourages the best work out your team or encourages long term retention when you flat out tell your staff, "it's easier on me if you just stay where you are and never grow, so I'm going to make sure you don't". Like how does that even cross someone's mind as a good strategy, long term?

sometimes the only thing that speaks volumes is when the work starts to suffer. not that I'm suggesting sabotage or anything, but if deadlines start being missed because people no longer bend over backwards and kill themselves to ensure they're met - then suddenly the manager gets questioned.

xpost 95% of managers shouldn't be managers, full stop. probably half of them do it because of the power it gives them, the ability to boss people around, be unaccountable to the same rules as everybody else, and take more time off. others were just chasing a bigger paycheck and instantly regretted the decision, and then take their misery out on their direct reports.

That leaves the small sliver of managers that are truly great at what they do, and those managers get laid off or fired because they actually challenge their bosses on things and aren't willing to sacrifice their employees' happiness for the job. so leadership fires them and replaces them with the other 95% of people who will.

That all checks out. It sucks to have it confirmed in such a blatant way though.

yeah. I'm sorry dude :(

you deserve a shot at loftier things, not to be stifled by the person who's supposed to help further your career.

"Why iSN'T ANYonE loyAL AnYMore?"

exactly, fuck that canard.

I totally took advantage of my boss's disorganization this week, lol.

I bought tickets late last year to see Helloween on 5/16 in St Pete. It's on a Tuesday, and St Pete is 2.5 hours away. I didn't initially request a PTO day as I'd already taken a ton in May, assumed since I don't teach many classes these days I could just leave work early that day, and figured I could revisit taking PTO as I got closer.

Two weeks ago, I figured "I should probably take a half day", only to find out they signed me up to lead a Train the Trainer class with a buddy that day. While I could have the buddy take the second half of the day, more often than not, the enrollments usually get so large that we wind up splitting the class in two, so very good chance I'll be solo that day, meaning not getting out until 5:30 and possibly getting out of my house real late. FUCK.

so then last week, I go back in and start thinking about how I can possibly arrange it with my buddy to get out an hour early, but now the schedule's changed! Now I'm no longer leading on 5/16, boss has moved me to other days later in the month, and replaced me with someone else! Hooray. so I write in the half day PTO and send the appropriate notification, boom, done.

Two days later, boss decided to change his mind and put me back in the class. But now has noticed I have PTO and begrudgingly has to allow it because the schedule was clear when I requested it and the head of dept has already blessed it.

boo-yah.

(for most other classes, if you had a desire to take PTO and they'd booked you wayyyy in advance to lead something, they'd just find someone else. this is just one of those weird ones that only 4 of us know how to teach).

I wish that career advancement was possible for me. Looks like I’m going back to school. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For the past couple years I have told people (not just a few people, but like, almost everyone who could possible care to know) that my days of managing small arts non-profits are done. Over. Finished. 20 years of service completed. Now I am going to do other things, because let me tell you, the skills that you gain managing small arts non-profits ... those are some really valuable skills that can apply to many other careers that generally pay way more and have less chaotic hours. Several months ago there was an opening for an Executive Director position at an arts org in San Francisco that I had actually been the "Interim Executive Director" (aka emergency repair person) for 12 years ago. And people were saying, "You should apply!" And I said, no. No. Thank you for saying such nice things about me, but no.

Anyway, guess what I am going to do again ... yep, once again, part-time management of struggling small arts nonprofit ... in Oakland. So, at least it doesn't involve commuting to San Francisco. But, I am feeling anxious and tired already, and I want this to be something that someone else takes over a year from now... but, tbh, it's also exciting and potentially fun, and I can incorporate some of the other things that I've wanted to do professionally into this position, so maybe it's not that bad?

oh but to address the thread topic -- the former Executive Director (who is a friend) will now be Co-Director with me -- she moved to NYC last summer, so it would be a problem if she were to remain Executive Director, so we are Co-Directors ... anyway there's history, because I actually have worked for this org before in various capacities ...

congrats! sounds like something you'll be good at, even if it's for a temporary time as you suggest. always good to find positions you can bring your own creativity into and impart your own personality upon.

thank you! i worry that i'm too old

NEVER

Sounds pretty awesome, sarahell. Congrats! Also, there's surely some stress relief in knowing it's temporary (even if that temporary is a year).

Congratulations! Sounds like a great gig.

thank you all ... i am scared.

That means it matters to you, which means you’ll do a good job.

good luck sarahell, I'm sure you'll do great!

I was asked to update a Powerpoint to capture the instructions for a new virtual server, and about 10-15 other things. I didn't write the original Powerpoint, which has existed for three years.

Made all these changes only for the assigner to come back and request 30 more things completely unrelated to the original request that she left off the first time, as well as asking me to do things I already did.

thinking of a way to politely say "uhm...how about you update them, since I worked hours on this and you left them off the first time"

actually nah, I decided to shelve it til Monday, whether htey like it or not. no reply needed...just not going to work on it.

Made all these changes only for the assigner to come back and request 30 more things completely unrelated to the original request that she left off the first time, as well as asking me to do things I already did.

this is a lol:sob scenario that I deal with on a regular basis

xp - probably the best move for your mental health, wish I was better at just putting stuff like that off because if I've learned anything in my career, it's that jumping on other people's out of the blue requests that shouldn't be your responsibility does not mean praise and recognition for you, it means even more things flung at you and praise and recognition for them

Xpost Lol in my old job, I used to have people in this one department do this to me all the time - until I went to the department head and complained and she told her team to stop doing this.

Person who did it to me today is the boss's boss who I'm friends with and all I can think is "she misremembered asking me to rewrite the PowerPoint as opposed to just capturing specific changes"

Xpost yeah exactly. Hell they might even forget about it

lol apparently some of these items were requested in emails in a separate thread from the original thread assigning me the work, so basically there were three separate threads about the same one assignment and I was supposed to keep all that together while missing 12 of 16 hours on Monday/Tuesday due to dad being in hospital (which they knew). lolz....

my boss was better at his job before he was my boss.

next week he has me leading a class solo, at the same time he wants me to supervise two classes, and prep another. the only day I'm not teaching one is Monday. I told him there's no way, esp since the BIs in India usually take cabs to and from the office at specific times that they pre-book so I can't meet with them before or after class. true, I didn't bring it up until now, but I was on vacation until yesterday and before I left for vacay, I was supposed to have a partner to teach it w/ me, which didn't materialize.

i feel like my boss's boss keeps secretly taking him aside and giving him feedback cos some of his aloofness is impacting her too.

Ugh, it's like something about turning into a boss, or getting more "boss" responsibilities just makes people worse.

Not really a complaint about a specific person, but there's been this really weird and stark turn over the past month or so at my place of employment. Not internal to my department, but whenever I reach out to people/teams in other departments, I'm surprised by how often I've been met recently with defensiveness, antagonism or sometimes outright hostility. It had gotten to the point where I was really second guessing nearly every communication I sent out, wondering if I was somehow unconsciously shaping this sort of response and kept coming up blank. It was a relief to finally catch up with a few other people in my department yesterday and learn they've been experiencing the same exact thing. My suspicion is that it all comes back to my recently departed boss, who treated other people with such scorn and insane, conspiratorial accusations that he's tainted our entire team by association. While it's good to know it wasn't just me and I wasn't somehow inadvertently pissing people off, it sucks to feel like I'm spending half my time "fighting" with people ostensibly on the same team as me and working towards a common goal.

it sucks to feel like I'm spending half my time "fighting" with people ostensibly on the same team as me and working towards a common goal.

ugh, yeah ... that feeling sucks and i've been dealing with that too. my coworker has been the main one dealing with it, as relatively early on in this project, the leader of the project (who works for the client that hired us) didn't want me involved too much in it ... my suspicion (and my coworker's) is that the reason was because i'm "in finance" and know enough about her work that i could be "a threat" or "a challenge" ... and I was like, "hey, okay, I'll hang back, no problem." ... this was a couple years ago, and recently, there are problems and defensiveness and complaints about "underperforming" being leveled at my coworker by the project leader and ... her leadership is contributing to the problems. Like, her decisions are making his job harder. And ... last week, I had to do some spreadsheet stuff for the project (which included reviewing stuff that she had done) and ... she is also "underperforming" (in that there are some obvious mistakes in her work, and things that she could have explained much more clearly that she didn't that led to delays, etc) ... but I'm like, "Let's just cut everyone on this project a lot of slack because we are doing something complicated and unusual and we all are learning as we go. The fact we've even gotten this far is amazing."

xp There is substantial research that having power reduces people's ability to empathize with others. It makes actual physiological changes in our brain chemistry.

what kind of power are you talking about?

Having authority over others. Having high status. Being a "boss."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neuroscience-in-everyday-life/202006/the-brain-under-the-influence-power

https://i.imgur.com/7ot9XuN.jpg