unless they are asking you if you'd prefer not to be invited? otherwise, yeah ... though, my co-worker has his google calendar set up so that he automatically accepts all invitations to meetings ... and my view of his calendar doesn't show what the meetings are ... it just shows the times and "busy" ... so in reality, I have no idea whether he is actually attending a meeting, only that someone invited him to something that it is highly possible he didn't even look at because of the automation.
― sarahell, Friday, 23 June 2023 20:12 (one year ago) link
he also has "recurring meetings" that actually don't happen, which I have to cognitively pretend aren't on the calendar ... like he had a recurring weekly meeting with a city official who was fired about a year ago ... he does not have a recurring meeting with the current person in that position ... the meeting is still on his calendar!
― sarahell, Friday, 23 June 2023 20:13 (one year ago) link
at that point, yeah, just contact him any time
― mh, Friday, 23 June 2023 20:16 (one year ago) link
it's more like, someone will ask me if he is available to do something at a specific time and I will have to honestly say I have no fucking idea what his schedule is!
― sarahell, Friday, 23 June 2023 20:21 (one year ago) link
Things had been fine for awhile with this relatively recent hire (for the record, she is exactly the same position and title as me), but lately she's been back to her method of firing off directives to me as if she's my boss. Never framed as a question or a conversation, just emails where she directs me to meet with people (on her behalf, for her projects, because she can't for one reason or another) and copies in a ton of people, including my actual boss. It's not that I mind helping her out and often times I'm able to step in to offer some assistance, but her tone and commands are pissing me the fuck off.
Today's specific example was an email, sent to me, copied to fifteen other people saying, essentially, "since you will be in this building on your project, I need you to stop by and walk this other area and report back to me on the scope". No ask, no framing it as a question, just a command.
I'm torn on how to deal with this without coming across as whining about it. Had this been delivered to me as an in person, friendly ask, it's not a completely unreasonable request to the point where my boss would object to the use of my time. It's just the tone that really pisses me off, it feels really belittling and disrespectful.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 27 June 2023 19:39 (one year ago) link
so ... wait ... is this her job that she is asking you to do for her ... ?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 27 June 2023 19:43 (one year ago) link
Essentially, yes. In this case an issue popped up related to one of the projects she is managing. Since I'm going to be in the area of her project tomorrow, for a completely unrelated project of my own, she sent an email telling me (and copying in all of our outside contractors involved in her project) to meet with her team, walk the project and get back to her with the scope of the issue.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 27 June 2023 19:46 (one year ago) link
Obviously you need to tit-for-tat this shit ASAP. Find something you can shove onto her plate and do it.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 27 June 2023 20:31 (one year ago) link
Don't be petty about it — do it in the exact same tone she uses with you, like "OK, if this is how things work now, here's one for you."
I like that idea, but she's kind of got me stuck on this one. I could just send something to her to do, but I'm nearly 100% certain she would just sit on it to make me look bad. To make the tit-for-tat have any teeth, I'd have to copy in several of the same people she copied on her email to me and I fear that would just come across as petty (especially to my actual boss).
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 27 June 2023 21:07 (one year ago) link
Check and mate.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 27 June 2023 21:12 (one year ago) link
Just say "since this is your project, that is outside the scope of my position."
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Wednesday, 28 June 2023 00:46 (one year ago) link
then fart on her
― sad Mings of dynasty (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 28 June 2023 00:47 (one year ago) link
Probably email her and your boss back and say that you are occupied with what’s on your plate (if you can get away with the embellishment) and ask that going forward, next time she needs you doing her job for her that she request your assistance directly instead of a mass email.
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 28 June 2023 01:17 (one year ago) link
To go back to the question, I would just tell her that you find her tone belittling and disrespectful. I did this recently with a colleague who felt justified in cussing me out. He apologized--sincerely, I think--and we moved on.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 28 June 2023 01:24 (one year ago) link
i actually found it fairly shocking how effective the direct approach can be when I did so in similar circumstances (well, in MY situation - mileage may vary). mostly because in this day and age people are used to people just taking whatever is flung at them without resistance, so they thrive on people not standing up and saying "no!".
― sad Mings of dynasty (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 28 June 2023 01:26 (one year ago) link
Nowhere in anyone's job description does it say "taking abuse."
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 28 June 2023 01:33 (one year ago) link
ot-fucking-m
― sad Mings of dynasty (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 28 June 2023 01:34 (one year ago) link
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, June 27, 2023 12:46 PM (nine hours ago)
the pass-agg way would be to say: You know, as I am not the lead on this project, I worry that my sense of the scope (and any changes that might be required based on my walkthrough) would not be as useful as if you were to do this yourself. As I, too, have a lot of projects to manager, I am concerned that I don't have time to do a comprehensive read of what has already been planned/done on this project, and might miss some key detail.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 28 June 2023 05:49 (one year ago) link
personally a mail to your manager and hers just checking whether or not your work/time was to be directed by this person or whether you were to continue on as planned with your own manager
then ignore the multi cc mail
― Ár an broc a mhic (darraghmac), Wednesday, 28 June 2023 06:42 (one year ago) link
Thanks, I think I might try the direct approach with her, or at least give it a run. A mutual coworker allegedly approached her about a similar thing earlier this year (though I wasn't around to know what was said/expressed) and apparently her response was along the lines of, "I don't care how other people receive my tone, I'm here to do my job".
For some added context, she has, on multiple occasions, self-described as "a climber" and frequently leads off conversations with, "when I lead this department". Fwiw, she's been here for just over a year and there have been zero indications that she is soon in line for any sort of management position, I think she is just one of those people that views every single interaction through the lens of, "how do I use this person to forward my career?". Unfortunately my recently departed boss thought intra-office strife was funny and "good for getting results" so he never spoke up when she said things like this. So far I get the vibe that my new boss isn't going to have the patience for that and might eventually tell her to curb it, but we're still in early days.
Ultimately, I'm also just here to do my job, but I don't need to deal with someone whose approach is "act like you've already got the job you want" and doesn't really care about the people she's pissing off along the way.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 28 June 2023 16:31 (one year ago) link
in that case, I would approach her in a more straightforward "realpolitik" way ... obv I am me, and you are not me, but, if it were me (and I've honestly been in this situation before) I would say (maybe have a one on one with her) --
Look, I am willing to have your back and cover for you because in order for things to work well (which I am committed to), we have to work together. But the thing is, I am more willing to go out of my way for you, if you acknowledge that I am, in fact, going out of my way for you. I could be passive-aggressive and throw you under the bus, and ask for authorization from my supervisor to take on your workload, which will definitely delay you getting what you need, right? And more than that, this could make it look like you aren't capable of doing your job. I don't think you want people to think you aren't capable of doing your job. But I don't want to be an asshole and do that. I really don't. I want to see you move up the ladder, as it seems like you want to do, right? And, if you are willing to be respectful of me, and acknowledge when I'm doing you a solid, then I will totally support you moving forward.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 28 June 2023 16:51 (one year ago) link
xp Such people are generally a cancer and more often than not will self-sabotage.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 28 June 2023 16:55 (one year ago) link
I would probably spend a lot of time plotting how to sink said colleague. You absolutely should not stand for that and make it as spectacular a bomb drop as possible.
― horizontal, Wednesday, 28 June 2023 22:53 (one year ago) link
Unfortunately my recently departed boss thought intra-office strife was funny and "good for getting results"
― brimstead, Wednesday, 28 June 2023 23:04 (one year ago) link
four of us are working on making revisions to our instructor introduction guide to ensure it's accurate for 2023 and make it more palatable for new instructors.
we were all asked to give our written feedback, which we did. Assumed that person leading this project would read all the feedback, make updates they understood/agreed with, and set a follow-up meeting to go over any feedback they were on the fence about or don't understand.
No, instead, he didn't read it at all, and we're going item by item and discussing them in real time, and then waiting while he makes the adjustments in the doc in real time.
Sooooo boring. hence why I'm reading here in the truckloads of space between items
― sad Mings of dynasty (Neanderthal), Thursday, 29 June 2023 17:26 (one year ago) link
This has to be among the top three Bad Boss Types.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Thursday, 29 June 2023 17:28 (one year ago) link
"anger = passion!!!111!!"
― sad Mings of dynasty (Neanderthal), Thursday, 29 June 2023 17:29 (one year ago) link
Eugh definitely seems like this person wouldn’t have been hired if non-toxic work culture was a concern with management
Absolutely. Another one of the "lasting legacies" he's left us with on his way out.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 29 June 2023 17:36 (one year ago) link
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah = one "ha" for each hour I have wasted in similar situations in the recent past
― sarahell, Thursday, 29 June 2023 18:19 (one year ago) link
it's just like....about as much fun as standing behind someone else as they play a video game that you've already beaten
― sad Mings of dynasty (Neanderthal), Thursday, 29 June 2023 18:23 (one year ago) link
totally! two days ago I spent several hours holding my co-worker's hand while he made a billing statement for a client because he needed to understand it himself
― sarahell, Thursday, 29 June 2023 18:38 (one year ago) link
Any other teachers here actively avoid co-workers at all costs? I have to engage with some as a special education instructor, but my god do I try to get away from these immature, cliquey brats. Some people unfortunately get into this field because they have messianic complexes and think they’re capable of “saving” kids
― beamish13, Thursday, 29 June 2023 20:18 (one year ago) link
dude goes to my manager asking why training invites for next Tuesday's class haven't gone out yet, saying he has people signed up who work atypical shifts so they can make arrangements with their families.
The time of training is always 9:00 am - 5:30 pm ET, has been for over a decade, and in addition to the fact that he's been signing people up for this class for years, the exact time of the class is listed explicitly at the top of the sign-up sheet, right below the dates of training. we never send invites further out than two days in advance because the roster changes so significantly in the week leading up.
our invites aren't supposed to be the first time the attendees learn of the dates/time, he himself was supposed to tell them after signing them up weeks ago. This is why people fail to show up on Day 1 sometimes.
― linoleum gallagher (Neanderthal), Thursday, 6 July 2023 13:32 (one year ago) link
I avoided my usual snark though so score one for me not being a dick like usual
AND (hilariously) one of our partner sites apparently has continued to connect to VPN with Citrix, which we phased out months ago for AWS Appstream. It hasn't been fully decommissioned yet, because there are other things besides VPN that it's used for which haven't transitioned yet, which explains why they can still get onto it, but 11 days from now, it will no longer be available.
kind of sad that we discovered this now because the hilarity of nobody being able to get online at this site in 11 days would have been a great popcorn moment.
― linoleum gallagher (Neanderthal), Thursday, 6 July 2023 13:50 (one year ago) link
One constant, in every single job I've had throughout my career, is that poor managers really cannot handle being asked for clarification of task priorities. Every single directive they come up with is a "A1 main priority" and you can consistently see their brain start to break down if you directly ask them which of the sixteen A1 priorities should be done first.
"buh buh buh buh all of them buh buh"
Case in point, since last Wednesday I've been handed six new "high priority" tasks to get done "ASAP" (naturally all of these on top of my normal workload). When being given the most recent this morning, I reminded the head of our department about the other five she had already put on my plate. I asked if there was a priority order within these six and was greeted by a blank stare for a good twenty seconds, as if I'd asked her to fly to Mars. Her ultimate response was, "all of them".
Gee, I can't fathom why people feel stretched too thin with low morale.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 July 2023 17:14 (one year ago) link
my manager's all over the place attention-wise, which I can relate to, but he's also relatively new to managing people so I can mention after (or during!) a meeting that he's said coworker A can work on three different things, and perhaps we should line those up in a backlog because none of them are fires needing fought and perhaps the large important task should get done first
― mh, Monday, 10 July 2023 17:27 (one year ago) link
xp - you should propose that they come up with a new priority category - "A1!" for things that are even bigger priorities than A1 priorities. You should send many emails regarding this new categorization system.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 11 July 2023 05:40 (one year ago) link
running out of patience for people who both don't turn banner notifications off in MS Teams and don't turn off email notifications in Outlook before leading a class. so I send them an email or a private message and inadvertently see it beamed in front of the entire class and have to ask them/show them how to turn them off during a break, and until I can do that, hold off sending PMs or emails until they're not screensharing.
― linoleum gallagher (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 12 July 2023 15:26 (one year ago) link
Photo shoot today in the operations space. "Oh we'll stay out of the way, here's the shot list" immediately shifted to "can someone clear out this area that wasn't ever planned to be on camera and wash that wall?" Utter chaos.
― Jaq, Wednesday, 12 July 2023 20:10 (one year ago) link
oh that's ridiculous
― linoleum gallagher (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 12 July 2023 20:59 (one year ago) link
that's pretty standard, sadly ... ugh
― sarahell, Thursday, 13 July 2023 19:30 (one year ago) link
they gave me a 401(k) class to supervise this week and neither trainer knows 401(k) very well. one hasn't touched it in years, one I think only just learned it himself not that long ago.
gee, how do you think it is going. I have had to join to answer questions so many times people have mistaken me for a third trainer.
― linoleum gallagher (Neanderthal), Thursday, 13 July 2023 19:39 (one year ago) link
one said I had a radio voice this morning though so that was a nice compliment
xp - yeah, photoshoots are almost always shitshows. minor inconveniences at best, huge disruptions at worst. at my old firm we had a shoot scheduled for a Thursday that was supposed to just be head shots for our new website. turned into "candids" as well and they decided that my desk was located in one of the shots and, thus, had to be cleaned off and vacated for "a short bit". this turned into six and a half hours during which I couldn't work at my desk, despite having a huge deadline for the next morning at 8 a.m. ended up finally leaving that night at nearly midnight since it was essentially 6 pm before I could start my day.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 13 July 2023 19:42 (one year ago) link
Uuuugggghhhhhh that's awful.
We are supposed to do a headshots and group photo thing in two Fridays and I am so not looking forward to it.
― Jaq, Friday, 14 July 2023 01:38 (one year ago) link
v important q for u Jaq -- will you have the cats in the photo?!
― sarahell, Friday, 14 July 2023 20:48 (one year ago) link
OMG that would be amazing, I should bring all 7 for truly complete photoshoot chaos 😂
― Jaq, Friday, 14 July 2023 20:55 (one year ago) link
We have more than one fish microwaver and I genuinely thought that was the one office rule everyone knew. Why????
― Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Saturday, 15 July 2023 10:59 (one year ago) link