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in general though the "just write about the music" line strikes me as profoundly incurious about music as anything other than a product for nerds to massage their ears with

your original display name is still visible (Left), Sunday, 6 August 2023 17:03 (one year ago) link

Imago otm

sarahell, Sunday, 6 August 2023 17:22 (one year ago) link

not what I fucking meant but got the fuck off

brimstead, Sunday, 6 August 2023 21:48 (one year ago) link

you all won today

brimstead, Sunday, 6 August 2023 21:49 (one year ago) link

Yeah, seriously, fuck contextualization. It should just read, "moon has dark side, where title from. Floyd good." I mean, who even has the time to read a whole paragraph?


You’re a dick

brimstead, Sunday, 6 August 2023 21:50 (one year ago) link

Life is too short to listen to any Pink Floyd album that doesn’t have “Lucifer Sam” on it.

papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 7 August 2023 09:08 (one year ago) link

Life is too short to care about what other people think about your taste in Pink Floyd albums

sarahell, Monday, 7 August 2023 12:16 (one year ago) link

That take's something I can't explain

the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 7 August 2023 12:20 (one year ago) link

Sometimes you just have to let art . . . flow over you.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 7 August 2023 13:17 (one year ago) link

do
do huh
do huh on wheat

― brimstead, Friday, August 4, 2023 11:00 AM bookmarkflaglink

why did you have a second thought about this???

here 1st (roxymuzak), Monday, 7 August 2023 20:30 (one year ago) link

it's the beginning of a reply at a sandwich shop

z_tbd, Monday, 7 August 2023 20:39 (one year ago) link

in electronics hardware, there's a common component reliability measurement called "Highly Accelerated Stress Test" or "HAST". So I sit in planning meetings where people say things like "are we going to do HAST?" Nobody ever laughs because ours is a joyless enterprise.

actual veggie mexican pizza received (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 7 August 2023 21:05 (one year ago) link

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 7 August 2023 22:16 (one year ago) link

omar, you are a good poster

Agreed, and so are you. Your posts are really insightful.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 7 August 2023 22:18 (one year ago) link

i can think of another different and actually possible way to mute him but i don’t talk about that.

toenail fungus (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 02:05 (one year ago) link

His mic has now been cut permanently. RIP.

The Original Human Breadbox (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 10 August 2023 23:38 (one year ago) link

I hated him like a brother

The Original Human Breadbox (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 11 August 2023 01:34 (one year ago) link

OK. So. I've been taking some time to process emotionally what went down yesterday, the way I reacted, what is actually going on with me. And because it's me shit and because the maleness and masculinity thread is talking about stuff that has nothing to do with me, I'm putting it here.

It's not about whether or not masculinity is in crisis or anything like that. I'm a woman and so I don't really need to worry about that, about what it means to be a man. I used to worry about that a lot, because I was trying to be a Good Man, but that's just not in the cards for me and never was. I need to let that go.

Here's my actual issue: I'm a woman and I love men. And that is super fucking hard for me.

I don't mean romantically, or sexually, and certainly not fraternally. I do think that unperson was right about that, fraternal love exists and it's not something I was ever able to experience because I'm not a man and never was. As soon as I transitioned, it was such an amazing experience, because immediately I was made welcome, accepted. The sororal love I'd had for women for a long time was accepted and reciprocated. I have to imagine and believe that men experience something similar.

I just think men are really great and I like being around them. I admire men. And the way men started treating me as soon as they realized I wasn't one has been really really uncomfortable for me. Sometimes, not always, I'm afraid of men, in a way I never was when they treated me as one of them. It's not the threat of, you know, violence. It's that men have _power_ that I don't, and they can use that power to hurt me if I'm not sufficiently deferential to them.

That power isn't something that's innate to manhood or natural or anything like that. I had that power, before I transitioned. I didn't realize I had it, but I did. And I feel like maybe that's why women always had to be cautious around me, the way I have to be cautious around men now. Sometimes some women act like I still have that power, which I don't, but I get why someone might think I do.

That power was, I think, a form of privilege, and maybe part of why I think of privilege as a double-edged sword. It kept me at arms' length from women. While women viewed me as a man, I wasn't going to experience sororal love with women, but I felt like a threat around women, because in some sense I was, in some sense _all men_ are, whether they want to be or not.

Because even if a man isn't dangerous, I can't really _know_ that for sure. I feel like I'm always walking around eggshells around men. I feel like if I say the wrong thing, or act the wrong way, they could turn on me, go after me. Or if they don't, some other man could show up and go after me, and then I am put into this situation where I have to protect myself. When that's the situation, it kind of limits how close I can get to men.

The situation yesterday, to me, that's a perfect example. I felt really good about how things were going yesterday. I felt like I was really connecting with men, that I was talking with them about some real shit, and there was some stuff I didn't get, some stuff I got wrong, some cases where I was even, like, _talking over_ men, which isn't something men experience a lot, not the way women do. But the men in this thread, they were kind, and patient, and I trusted... I trust them. It was kind of everything I want from the company of men. It's not something I get often.

And such a fragile thing, because - I'm going to talk about unperson like he isn't here, and I know that's rude, but I don't know how to talk about this without ignoring him, basically. Anyway, he comes roaring in, and he's taken personal offense to something I've said, and he responds by being hostile and, quite honestly, offensive to me personally and to trans people in general. When shit like this happens... I don't think unperson had, or has, any idea what he was actually doing, how he was treating me. I'm going from a situation where I'm able to be vulnerable around men to a situation where I have to be closed-off and defensive. Not only that, but unperson is _personally hurt_ by what I've said and I feel like I have, like, an obligation to explain to him that what I said wasn't a direct attack on him. Not really because I _want_ to soothe him so that he's not hurt, but because of that power he has as a man. It's this hostility, this resentment, that is, in my opinion, most dangerous about men, and I naturally want to de-escalate, defuse what's become a really dangerous and intense situation for me.

And this is hard for me because I have to do this without, like, responding to him in kind. I'm upset with him. He said something that was personally hurtful and offensive and I can't say to him, you know, but also fuck you. I used to say shit like that a lot before I transitioned and... it's not a _loss_ to me that I can't say that. I genuinely don't _want_ to respond in kind to unperson. It doesn't benefit me to respond to him in anger. There's a time and a place for anger and that isn't it.

The best thing to do, I think, would be to acknowledge my anger, to work through my anger and process it before responding. And I didn't do that. Instead I tried to repress my anger, push it down, ignore it, and respond to him calmly and rationally. It was hard work, but I thought it was important, and I feel like I did it well. And then he goes and responds to me like the both of us were having a _rational conversation_, aside from me taking unreasonable offense to his perfectly simple and rational points.

It's at this point that I lose control of my anger. To me, you know, I've gone above and beyond to, like, justify my existence to him, justify to him why I have the _right to have opinions about men_, all without further escalating the hostility and anger he's already expressed to me, which includes not pointing out that he has been personally offensive to me and offensive to trans people in general, and he's not even acknowledging that he's being anything other than objective and rational. I'm angry, and since I've been repressing my anger, it doesn't come out in a healthy way.

In the meantime, what was a really great conversation with men that was making me feel really good has turned on a dime into this really fucking ugly thing where I'm responsible, once again, for tiptoeing around some cishet dude's fragility. And I am responsible, it's clear to me, because of the way other cis guys are chiming in - and it is a thread on maleness and masculinity, so they _are_ absolutely welcome - but they're chiming in to say "I don't know, what unperson says seems perfectly rational to me, what's the problem with it?" Which is a genuinely reasonable and good-faith question to have! These men deserve an answer. I don't want them to feel bad about asking questions like that, because that's how people _learn_. I'm just not really the best person to answer that question under those circumstances, that's all.

It's why I say, why a lot of us say, that it's not our responsibility to explain. There's a lot of pressure. It's an undue burden, a lot of the times, to explain. It's not that I don't want to, it's this constant feeling like I have to drop everything every time some cishet guy gets pissed off about something that's not even about him. And yes, this absolutely is how I behave towards other people sometimes, and I know now - I didn't before, I didn't _have to_ before, not like I do now - how incredibly fucking rude and insulting behavior like that is. I'm working really hard to try and correct this awful behavior I've developed over the course of a lifetime. And that's me. That's not all men. That's me. Most men _don't_ do that, most _people_ don't do that.

The thing is, before I transitioned, that behavior, which has always been unacceptable and inappropriate behavior on my part, was a lot more _accepted_, or at least _tolerated_, than it is now. Particularly because I was, and am, really good at rhetoric. I am really good at framing my emotions as facts, at making my anger, my hostility, and my resentment look reasonable, objective concerns. Like I'm just asking questions. That's a pretty powerful skill to have. It's not an intrinsically male skill. I learned it from a woman. That said, that skill benefited me, before my transition, a lot more than it ever benefited her.

I think I'd feel more comfortable around men, better able to get close to men, if that sort of behavior wasn't tolerated as much as it is.

Kate (rushomancy), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 12:55 (one year ago) link

Fwiw kate, I really appreciated your posts and while I understand your need to explore why you posted and interacted the way that you did, I need to stress that you did nothing wrong. Being gaslit by straight and cis people has been our burden for way too fucking long, and I will not apologize for any of my reactions yesterday, and I don’t think you should have to, either.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 14:13 (one year ago) link

I think I'd feel more comfortable around men, better able to get close to men, if that sort of behavior wasn't tolerated as much as it is.

Boom.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 14:15 (one year ago) link

Fwiw kate, I really appreciated your posts and while I understand your need to explore why you posted and interacted the way that you did, I need to stress that you did nothing wrong. Being gaslit by straight and cis people has been our burden for way too fucking long, and I will not apologize for any of my reactions yesterday, and I don’t think you should have to, either.

― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table)

thanks table! i don't feel like i did anything wrong, and i'm not apologizing. :) I'm mostly just trying to learn and grow! i was, honestly, going to post the thing i wrote in the maleness and masculinity thread, because it _does_ touch on maleness and masculinity, i just didn't want to nuke the convo you were having about that movie (again) :)

Kate (rushomancy), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 14:44 (one year ago) link

i'm sorry that i put myself in the ludicrous and impossible position of trying to "translate" b/w the two of you. for some reason i thought i saw a glimpse of hope in a possible reconciliation of worldviews but i feel like i just made an ass of myself. tbh i find it really confusing to post here sometimes and have a hard time with the pace and quantity of posting. i try to post less and think more. but really appreciate you posting here if it's not obvious

budo jeru, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 16:40 (one year ago) link

thanks budo jeru— i know you were just trying to parse out what was happening

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 17:03 (one year ago) link

I'm glad there's a thread where masculinity can, and should, be contained

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 17:29 (one year ago) link

i hate having feelings

sarahell, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 17:54 (one year ago) link

As soon as I transitioned, it was such an amazing experience, because immediately I was made welcome, accepted. The sororal love I'd had for women for a long time was accepted and reciprocated.

that's a beautiful image <3 <3

i also couldn't keep up with the pace and quantity of posts yesterday. busier than usual, didn't mean to bail. hopefully i'll get to respond today (or soon) even if i don't have anything more to offer than thanks and love and encouragement.

Deflatormouse, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 18:03 (one year ago) link

agreed. there’s so much about trans-ness i fear i’ll never get— but i get that, and it’s a very fundamental thing.

juan epshteyn-- r.i.c.o., but suave tambien (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 18:21 (one year ago) link

@rob

Not to derail that discussion, he is also a huge fan of The Carpenters, spent lots of car trips as a kid hoping he wouldn’t start singing along (literally the worst singing voice I’ve ever heard) but! Important life lesson about taste!

ydkb (gyac), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 20:12 (one year ago) link

i'm sorry that i put myself in the ludicrous and impossible position of trying to "translate" b/w the two of you. for some reason i thought i saw a glimpse of hope in a possible reconciliation of worldviews but i feel like i just made an ass of myself. tbh i find it really confusing to post here sometimes and have a hard time with the pace and quantity of posting. i try to post less and think more. but really appreciate you posting here if it's not obvious

― budo jeru

i'm not asking you for an apology. mostly it's not, like, your responsibility! that was something i kind of had to unlearn, the whole "white man's burden" thing. it's great that you want to put more thought into your posts! unsolicited advice on that front. one of the things me and my primary have started doing is, like, at once point she told me she was on Team Kate. and i was like, i don't want you to be on Team Kate, I want you to be on Team Kate's Girlfriend (i mean i used her name of course). that's something i try to do, since then, when i think about things i think about it in terms of "is this a Team Kate move?" i find that a lot of the times i fuck up, it's because i wasn't on Team Kate.

agreed. there’s so much about trans-ness i fear i’ll never get— but i get that, and it’s a very fundamental thing.

― juan epshteyn-- r.i.c.o., but suave tambien (Hunt3r)

you don't have to _get_ everything about transness! all you need to get is that trans people know stuff about transness that cis people don't, and when we say something about being trans it's best practice to assume that we know what we're talking about. :) (though we don't, always!) same goes for members of any marginalized group or _non-normative_ group.

Kate (rushomancy), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 20:15 (one year ago) link

xp to gyac

awww lol

my dad singing along with things he couldn't (like OPERA ffs) was also a feature of my childhood. also he could clap his hands with punishing volume when he wanted...a trait I inherited to my partner's dismay

rob, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 20:18 (one year ago) link

My dad told us at Christmas he has some previously unknown (by us) interest in opera, am hoping he might go with the husband to one next time he’s over, mainly cos I have no interest & it would be nice for them!

My dad is a complete troll, when we had a landline I would ring home & he’d answer & pretend not to be able to hear/understand me - always thought it was the funniest thing ever lol

ydkb (gyac), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 20:31 (one year ago) link

Kate i appreciate your resolve to call people in instead of calling them out. It's extremely difficult to balance the resolve you've demonstrated to aid in the recovery of others with the need to protect your own emotional equilibrium and avoid taking on an undue burden of responsibility. Please give yourself permission to snap. Just in general, and especially when someone resists your aid. What you're doing is good and positive, imo it's what this moment calls for broadly speaking. So it's on us collectively to help each other achieve that balance, it can't be all on you.

Deflatormouse, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 20:57 (one year ago) link

One's perception of the tilt of a slash character depends on where one imagines the fixed axis or pivot point, which could be at the top, making it similar to a pendulum, or in the middle, making it similar to a propeller, or at the bottom.

Because printed alphabetical and numerical characters in English usually align to a notional horizontal line at their 'base', my imaginary pivot point is at the bottom. And because English reads left to right, a slash where the top is further right than the bottom appears titled forward and when the top is further left than the bottom it appears titled backwards, against the right-to-left motion of the reader's eye.

I had fun writing that.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 16 August 2023 01:50 (one year ago) link

That is, to me, the normal interpretation and I tend to agree. But I realize there are other points of view out there and I feel we may as well hear them out, sweet child of mine.

Bonobo Vox (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 16 August 2023 01:54 (one year ago) link

That long post from Kate above is great, and there are lots of things that make total sense and are eye opening. Kinda like downloading a new device driver!

I had second thoughts about posting that, so I guess it qualifies for posting here...

Mark G, Wednesday, 16 August 2023 06:28 (one year ago) link

awww, that's a really cool compliment! i'm not really sure i understand it, but that's kind of what makes it so cool, hearing from someone who likes my posts but looks at them from a perspective i never imagined. :heart:

Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 16 August 2023 13:20 (one year ago) link

reverse solidus is when i put the poop back into my butt

ꙮ (map), Wednesday, 16 August 2023 20:25 (one year ago) link

One's perception of the tilt of a slash character depends on where one imagines the fixed axis or pivot point, which could be at the top, making it similar to a pendulum, or in the middle, making it similar to a propeller, or at the bottom.

― more difficult than I look (Aimless)

nonsense, slash characters are all queer, it's kind of baked into the medium

Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 16 August 2023 23:39 (one year ago) link

reverse solidus is when i put the poop back into my butt

― ꙮ (map)

i thought that was called "solidus snake"

Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 16 August 2023 23:42 (one year ago) link

Banging post aimless, you would have changed my vote if you posted that earlier tbh

hrep (H.P), Wednesday, 16 August 2023 23:55 (one year ago) link

(a pedant writes: light years is a measure of distance, not of time)

koogs, Thursday, 17 August 2023 01:38 (one year ago) link

I don't pretend to have a firm grasp on general or special relativity, but isn't it both?

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Thursday, 17 August 2023 01:46 (one year ago) link

if that’s true about it being a measure of time then what makes it different from a regular year

the late great, Thursday, 17 August 2023 02:27 (one year ago) link

525,600 light years

earosmith (Neanderthal), Thursday, 17 August 2023 02:30 (one year ago) link

Isn't it the measure of the movement of light through spacetime?

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Thursday, 17 August 2023 02:31 (one year ago) link

how do you measure
a light year in the life

earosmith (Neanderthal), Thursday, 17 August 2023 02:31 (one year ago) link

it’s just the distance it travels in a year

the late great, Thursday, 17 August 2023 02:31 (one year ago) link

Exactly, through the three spatial dimensions and the dimension of time.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Thursday, 17 August 2023 02:32 (one year ago) link

Or the who knows how many spatial dimensions.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Thursday, 17 August 2023 02:32 (one year ago) link

how about love

earosmith (Neanderthal), Thursday, 17 August 2023 02:33 (one year ago) link


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