Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events: Oct 23 on

Yair Wallach, who is an Israeli academic at SOAS very much not sympathetic to Likud/Bibi, is a good source on twitter atm, but like all the content out there atm, proceed at your own risk.

He retweeted this video of a young woman from one of the kibbutzes (kibbutzim?) that was attacked earlier:

By far the most powerful Israeli response I have seen.

This 19 year old girl survived the horrific massacre in Kibbutz Be’eri.

This is her message to her fellow Israelis and to the world.

Watch the whole thing.pic.twitter.com/qSPKZX4pzg

— Benzi Sanders (@BenzionSanders) October 14, 2023

Thanks, gyac.

Chotiner and Sari Bashi, the program director at Human Rights Watch:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-humanitarian-catastrophe-in-gaza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W43C8xhh5E

Sam & Emma interviewing Omar Shakir, Israel & Palestine Director at HRW this morning

looks like David Dayen in there too

Yes, but trying to ask a question of the guest when Sam is in interview mode is a tall order

Why is our political class so invested in suppressing criticism of the apartheid regime? The answer is obvious. Western states support Israel in order to maintain their power at a crucial crossroads of world trade. Challenging that power is impermissible, because any attempt to hold Israel accountable for its crimes is – by definition – an attempt to hold our own states accountable for their involvement in them. Not only are our rulers prepared to let Israel level Gaza; they will even provide it with diplomatic cover and military supplies.

https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/impending-genocide

As noted, I know numerous IRL people with Israeli flag avatars saying that they stand with Israel no matter what.

Plus I know IlXorz and others who almost uniformly condemn Israel as a brutal apartheid state that continues to use "but the Holocaust" as a laminated carte blanche for every atrocity the IDF wishes to commit. (There is a bit of a strawman in there but that's another topic for another time.)

I have met exactly zero people in between. I know it is not about me and/or my feelz. And I don't love "both sides"ing US politics either. The discourse is polarized and will remain so.

Absolutely no-one has talked about this situation at work, there's been no conversation about it at all, maybe people don't talk about it at work in the US either I don't know.

No offence Tom but that was a post I was hoping could be left behind in the old thread

xp, thank you for that gyac, incredibly moving. I also recommend the NYTimes Daily from today on the situation on the ground in gaza from the perspective of people caught in it, difficult listening:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/16/podcasts/the-daily/gaza-israel.html

(the ep labeled "Voices from Gaza")

I’m just going to say that I am not in-between on this issue, but that should be obvious by now.

xp I know people are all about bearing witness but I find this stuff incredibly upsetting.

I don’t think it was mentioned but Humza Yousuf who is Scotland’s first minister has family trapped in Gaza. I am linking this video as I find this content extremely upsetting.

Bernard's mother and family went out of their way to tell me that they would be praying for my family in Gaza. We hugged, we cried, and we promised to re-dedicate ourselves to peace and to be unequivocal; no innocent man, woman, or child should pay the price of another's actions. https://t.co/Vv1fz9gXqJ

— Humza Yousaf (@HumzaYousaf) October 13, 2023

Also, for context on the Kibbutz Be'eri post and those less familiar with the situation of the past 15-20 years (and again disclaimer I am hardly an expert myself): from Ariel Sharon onward, Israeli policy has been increasingly tilted toward a phony sort of "disengagement." In my mind, it traces back to the building of the West Bank wall although that could be simplistic take. But Netanyahu has turbo-charged this idea, basically that Israel could just kind of ignore the territories (at least other than soldiers stationed in the West Bank) rather than engage in any more ongoing negotiations, that the West Bank could continue to develop economically even without full agency or freedom, and that Gaza would be the kind of counterexample (i.e. life would be worse than in the West Bank) as long as Hamas was there. That terrorism could simply be prevented or minimized through "security," the settlements in the West Bank could continue quietly, and most Israelis would just live their lives and not worry.

Netanyahu is also notoriously corrupt and venal, and he has maintained power through a coalition with right-wing settler and religious parties, giving both more power (which also angers the more secular wings of Israeli politics as Israel gradually takes on additional trappings of theocracy, though it is hardly a full theocracy).

Netanyahu also favors his voters. The kibbutzes near Gaza tend actually to be center-liberal to left. They are not Netanyahu voters. There is a strong sense that Netanyahu "neglected" these areas as the girl expressed in her video, and that is also reflected in the sense that he neglected security near the Gaza border. I genuinely do not know whether Netanyahu "allowed" the attack but I seriously doubt it for reasons I stated in the prior thread. I think this was more hubris and stupidity and myopia.

"I don’t think it was mentioned but Humza Yousuf who is Scotland’s first minister has family trapped in Gaza. I am linking this video as I find this content extremely upsetting."

Mentioned this in the last Israel thread.

You can count on one hand the number of European leaders who have talked about Palestinians as human beings

And they’re all backpedaling now given protests and public pushback.

The President of the University of Pennsylvania has released her 3rd or 4th public statement apologizing for letting a Palestinian writers conference take place last month

The President of the University of Pennsylvania has released her 3rd or 4th public statement apologizing for letting a Palestinian writers conference take place last month

people are so fucking gross

Public statements issued by university presidents are generally tailored to a narrow and specific segment of the public, mainly anyone with influence over university revenues or endowments. They are paid to know how to read that room.

Aimless, we know. No offense.

Well, yeah. When you've got Dick Wolf threatening your donations because you let Palestinians into a building named after him...

a name like Dick Wolf must never be besmirched

Always guarantee the BBC will always be fucked.

The BBC admits that it misled the public about pro-Palestinian demonstrations in the UK. pic.twitter.com/oi4nVf5DN7

— Lowkey (@Lowkey0nline) October 16, 2023

i think about this poem by Palestinian poet Najwan Darwish all the time pic.twitter.com/jv5WOOjobb

— هستی hasti (@youarehasti) October 16, 2023

xp - That retraction was also poorly phrased and could be misleading.

This is @GhassanAbuSitt1, a surgeon who is currently saving the lives of Palestinians in a hospital in Gaza. He's just reported that counter terrorism police have showed up at his house in the UK and harrased his family.pic.twitter.com/GOvl5aQLHG https://t.co/bugmmZPAMM

— Saul Staniforth (@SaulStaniforth) October 16, 2023

That retraction was also poorly phrased and could be misleading.

glad i'm not the only one who thought this

OTM

I know this is old news, but it still blows my mind that the range of Acceptable Opinions on Israel is narrower in the West than it is in Israel.

That Darwish poem is great. Notable that Armenians were just cleansed from Artsakh by Azerbaijan and absolutely no-one in the west cared.

Yup. Armenia could be invaded in the next few weeks btw.

xxp two words: Social Media.

Nuanced discussions are often lacking in the echo chambers of social media and the 24 hour news cycle. The only place where I've seen nuanced discussions about the topic are on platforms that favor more nuanced discussion, such as ILX and (yes, believe it or not) Reddit.

I do wonder if the "outrage economy" of clickbait extremism online and the 24 hours news cycle will finally hit a limit of societal acceptability in western democracies, but I'm not holding my breath, they still make $$$

"We called a pro-palestinian march pro-Hamas. We accept that this was a thing that we said". WTF.

Now here's the weather.

True, I understand in theory how misinformation supposedly works. But I'm finding it extremely challenging to trust some of the news sources being cited and finding myself turning to reddit, and other news sources that I don't normally consult trying to see what areas of dispute exist over even just the factual reporting.

xp

Interestingly enough, a private forum I participate in is completely avoiding talking about this, and honestly it might be for the best.

The ukpolitics sub is overall fanatically pro-occupation and pro-genocide, and they are gradually losing their shit as they observe the public becoming turned off by this stance. Also they are usually witheringly critical of the Tories but have suddenly become staunchly supportive of Sunak and Braverman.

Are you taking about Reddit or something

I have met exactly zero people in between.

To the extent I've talked to people about this, almost everybody I know IRL is "in between" the two positions you describe.

Reddit is a paragon of “nuanced discussion” now. We are truly fucked.

Actually was just thinking about this specific issue in non-Reddit terms which still definitely apply to Reddit. How this conflict is a godsend for the extreme right (and whatever apologists they may have claiming to be “leftist”). Because it so thoroughly divides actual leftists from liberals steeped in realpolitik or whatever they’re on.

a name like Dick Wolf must never be besmirched

There's nothing decent to besmirch. The Law & Order "franchise" is a formulaic, sensationalist pile of shit. All 1,316 episodes of it.

Also pretty depressing how my social media feed was blissfully Ben Shapiro-free until various people decided his thick-headed, one-dimensional take on the Middle East was the voice of reason this past week.

xxp two words: Social Media.

Nuanced discussions are often lacking in the echo chambers of social media and the 24 hour news cycle. The only place where I've seen nuanced discussions about the topic are on platforms that favor more nuanced discussion, such as 4chan and (yes, believe it or not) Stormfront.

We get it. You don't like Reddit.

I don’t like social media illiterates upholding a literal right wing extremist-captured disinformation service as their go-to for balanced discussion.

lol what

Lol hey i wasnt even posting here viborg

Yes, the famously extremist platform, reddit

Extremely milquetoast maybe

i know this is dumb and unhelpful, but to illustrate the kinds of things i’m seeing regular jewish folks share these days: https://www.instagram.com/p/CyZO9L8sM01/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

this story about the military prosecutor who resigned after leaking video footage of a Palestinian prisoner at SDE being sexually assaulted is really messed up: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyk1dk7d9do

and: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/ex-israeli-military-top-lawyer-missing-after-admitting-leaking-soldiers-rape-video

just came here to post that. insane story, but most telling is this quote from Netanyahu:

The scandal has received widespread coverage in Israel, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday calling for an independent investigation into the leak, which he says caused "enormous damage to Israel's public image".

"This is perhaps the most severe propaganda attack that the state of Israel has experienced since its establishment," Netanyahu said.

And then there’s also this:
At least nine Israeli soldiers were questioned over the assault in late July 2024, sparking widespread anger across Israel, with polls showing that a majority believe the accused officers should not face criminal charges.

yeah that Netanyahu line is telling, as is Ben-Gvir saying "Anyone who spreads blood libels against IDF troops is unfit to wear the army's uniform."

"Anyone who spreads blood libels against IDF troops is unfit to wear the army's uniform," he said.

“Blood libel”= actual evidence of torture.
Fucking revolting.

Not even a token statement that rape and torture is bad

Simply noticing when IDF soldiers rape someone is now antisemitic, good to know

I thought libel was supposed to be a claim that was false. oh well.

I simply can’t understand how ingrained it seems to be in this discourse that “lying is an acceptable way to form an argument”; from the moment I heard/read the phrase “the most moral military in the world” it was definitely evident that the opposite was true (even just by dint of the fact that such an assertion needed to be made).

But as I’ve said before, the realization that to this population that there is no difference between a Palestinian life and a rodent infestation has seriously reduced any expectation of reasonable behaviour— we see murders where they see crop dusting

which he says caused "enormous damage to Israel's public image"

uhhh... I think the IDF has already done plenty to sully said public image. This woman should get a medal for the leak

This is what's actually happening to her:

An Israeli court on Monday extended the detention by three days of former Military Advocate General Yifat Tomer-Yerushalmi, who was arrested on Sunday night as part of the investigation into the leak of a video showing the abuse of a Palestinian detainee by Israeli guards.

...

National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir announced that Prison Service Commissioner Kobi Yaakobi had ordered that she be held in solitary confinement under heightened supervision, monitored by guards and cameras.

https://archive.ph/W1luL (Haaretz)

YouTube Quietly Erased More Than 700 Videos Documenting Israeli Human Rights Violations
https://theintercept.com/2025/11/04/youtube-google-israel-palestine-human-rights-censorship/

Sure these horrors are saved somewhere...the question is whether this will ever be used to prosecute.

Utterly deranged society.

"A future in which IDF uniforms evolve from a military symbol into raw material for creation, fashion and hope": It should come as no surprise that the war in Gaza served as inspiration for shows at Israel's recent fashion week in Tel Avivhttps://t.co/DY7YYid8dL

— Haaretz.com (@haaretzcom) November 11, 2025

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/12/israeli-settlers-new-attack-violence-west-bank-palestinians

Israeli president condemns ‘serious’ attack by settlers on West Bank villages

oh, that's surprising

The Israeli army said soldiers had responded to Tuesday’s settler attacks, causing the settlers to flee to a nearby industrial zone, where they attacked soldiers and damaged a military vehicle.

The police also said they had arrested four settlers involved in the attacks, a rarity as settlers generally go unpunished in what human rights bodies call a system of impunity.

ah

The Haaretz summary:

PM Netanyahu said settler violence in the West Bank "will be addressed with full force," and that he still opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state, despite the U.S. submitting a UN draft resolution that offers a "credible pathway" to statehood. Saudi Arabia will not normalize ties with Israel under the Netanyahu government, Palestinian sources told Haaretz, citing senior Saudi officials. Israel's government announced that it will probe the failures surrounding October 7, 2023, but not through a state commission of inquiry. Israeli troops fired at UNIFIL soldiers in southern Lebanon "due to poor weather conditions," the IDF said, adding that the incident is being investigated.

Palestinian deaths in Israeli custody have surged. A prison guard describes rampant abuse

CAIRO, Nov 17 (Reuters) - Gazans said they paid $2,000 per seat to fly their families to South Africa on a trip arranged by a group offering a way out of the devastated enclave, in what South Africa alleged on Monday appeared to be part of a bid to displace Palestinians.
Two Gazans interviewed by Reuters said they were among 130 Palestinians granted entry by South Africa after being bussed from Gaza and flown out of an Israeli airport last week, arriving in Johannesburg on Thursday after a stop in Nairobi.

bless this clip https://www.instagram.com/reel/DN6QtGgDZkp/?igsh=NGtqbGowczlhODZ5

How climate could intersect with the ongoing conflicts in the region.

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202511209098

Not read this yet. Probably too much.

One of the best pieces written about the West Bank this year, imo, by @BenEhrenreich: https://t.co/16v0Ps8SjW

— jasper nathaniel (@infinite_jaz) December 1, 2025

the desperate lies and condescension of Hilary blaming TikTok for the growing domestic revulsion for US supported genocide and then giving an Arafat blaming genocide washing history of Palestine, that makes her husband look like a put upon heroic statesman who could have brokered an independent Palestinian state. get the fuck out of here, you belong in hell with your paedo husband, sick lying piece of shit.

Yeah, the nerve of her trying to Israelsplain to Jewish anti-Zionist teens.

Here's what Hillary's favourite truth-loving democracy has been up to: https://www.972mag.com/knesset-apartheid-laws-gaza-war/

Legislating apartheid: How Israel entrenched unequal rule during Gaza war
In a two-year blitz, Israeli lawmakers passed over 30 laws curtailing Palestinians' rights and punishing dissent, a new report shows.

How dare you kids have an opinion on Palestine when you didn't even fail to make a peace agreement

Contrast the op ed Ben Rhodes had in the NYT a couple days ago which demonstrates that you can still have an honest reckoning mea culpa on the issue, even with a neolib dem establishment perspective

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/01/opinion/democrats-israel.html?unlocked_article_code=1.508.gJ9t.0QpF8-g2TI3P&smid=nytcore-ios-share
(gift link)

A dire situation for Lebanon and Syria. Resistance, in whatever way, is the only way.

1. Lebanon’s appointment of a political figure to lead talks with Israel for the first time in decades, exposes the reality of normalisation without peace, not even an unjust one. Israel is not seeking to normalize itself as a state pursuing security or stable borders, as its…

— Amal Saad (@amalsaad_lb) December 3, 2025

Got round to a review of this book on Zionism, which has some interesting passages on Lebanese politics.

"Jiryis is a scholar; he witnessed the start of the Nakba and its consequences, and is not writing for those who won’t listen."

https://thebaffler.com/latest/given-this-reality-turfah

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/watched-tracked-targeted-israel-surveillance-gaza.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=s1&utm_campaign=nym

long detailed article by a Palestinian journalist who has since left Gaza, about how Israel tracks Palestinians on their phones, online, via drones ,etc.

Thank you for sharing, my god

It’s horrible and I wish some of my hometown Zionists would read it.

Since you were talking around anti-racist work on the uk thread and calling me out maybe shove this in front of them, and be confrontational and loud with it?

Why don’t you do something more useful with your time than biting my ankles, shawty?

No biting here, just something that simply occurred to me that you could easily do for anti-racism.

Sorry for name-calling but you are massively getting on what passes for my tits.

So you are telling me your hometown Zionist will stay uninformed? That's a shame.

Never mind.

So you are telling me your hometown Zionist will stay uninformed? That's a shame.

Never mind.

So you are telling me your hometown Zionist will stay uninformed? That's a shame.

Never mind.

Hamas announced the death of senior Al-Qassam Brigades commander Raed Saad, known as Abu Mu’ath, in an Israeli assassination operation yesterday (Dec 13).

He was targeted by an Israeli drone in his car while driving on the Al-Rashid road, west of Gaza City. The strike killed five people and injured at least 25 others, including civilians, according to Al Jazeera.

In a statement published on its official website, Hamas said Saad was killed alongside three other Al-Qassam members: Riyad al-Luban, Abd al-Haqq Zakout, and Yahya al-Qayali. The group said the four had played prominent roles within the armed wing.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2025/12/16/israeli-raids-across-west-bank-as-gaza-reels-from-aftermath-of-storm

Infants dying of cold in Gaza

Egypt can say what it wants but purchasing $35bn of gas from Israel violates int'l law, including the ICJ advisory opinion of 2024, and is, honestly, an incredible sign of support to Israel during the genocide of the Palestinians.
States must stop placing profits above humanity. https://t.co/J3F7tMbPP1

— Francesca Albanese, UN Special Rapporteur oPt (@FranceskAlbs) December 20, 2025

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/12/26/israel-becomes-first-country-to-recognise-somaliland

From Haaretz - Iranian hackers said they hacked into the phone of PM Netanyahu's chief of staff and will soon publish sensitive information they obtained about the premier and his aides' alleged ties to Qatar. Far-right minister Ben-Gvir said that anyone involved in Qatargate "should be sent to prison for many years," while saying that he believes Netanyahu was not involved in qatargate affair

was looking up Somaliland and quelle surprise it is a zone of British neocolonial interest with no credible claims of sovereignty in the region other than from Israel.

It's kind of a self-negating move from a country that doesn't recognise one that 81% of the world does. But shameless is how they roll.

https://apnews.com/article/saudi-arabia-bomb-yemen-mukalla-weapons-uae-9fc56e4678a12f56d61b1ecf855d4a4e

thought this interview with a Palestinian writer was really interesting:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/20/magazine/raja-shehadeh-interview.html

"At the end of another brutal year of strife and suffering, with a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas holding"

Great interview, and yes I know it has been contentious here but the way he identifies Zionism as the central problem..

Something that has struck me in talking to you is a calm or lack of stridency in how you make your arguments, which seems very different than the stridency of younger pro-Palestinian activists. I’m curious if you see generational differences in how pro-Palestinian voices express themselves and the tactics that they call for? Yes, but I think that even when I was young I always had a mild tone.

So it’s you, not generational? I always try to understand the other side because I want to be effective and speak to the other side in a language that they can understand. I’ve always been hesitant to use strident language and to be extremist in order to win over the other side. That has been my effort all along — to win the other side — but it has never worked

This is something else.