Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events: Oct 23 on

Giorgio Meloni huh.

this is the new Axis and your "never again" is happening now pic.twitter.com/w8Q6gdJSFu

— Sade (@atlajala) October 23, 2023

the middle east is complicated because its bad to support smothering orphans in hell fire but I also really want to graduate Harvard

— wint (@dril) October 23, 2023

xp "the new Axis" huh

Trudeau's statement is a bigger problem but maybe it's the random poster we got to focus on.

Not to derail the thread on a comparatively minor issue, but here's some follow-up reporting on the incident near my house yesterday. Just as an example of how far the hate has spread.

https://www.wbez.org/stories/shot-fired-crowd-maced-at-pro-palestinian-protest-outside-israeli-solidarity-event-in-skokie/64241ffd-609e-4423-bc77-7aa02886c51c

Two people were taken into police custody Sunday evening after one man allegedly fired a shot in the air near a group of pro-Palestinian demonstrators protesting an Israeli solidarity event in the northern suburbs and another man later maced the group, which included a Sun-Times reporter.

No one was injured by the gunshot. Another protester was struck in a hit and run, police said, but was also not seriously injured.

I've been livid since yesterday morning, seeing people and outlets that should fucking know better parroting the, "this was a pro-Hamas rally" in reference to the pro-Palestinians.

Maybe not the greatest decision by the pro-Palestine folks to show up at the other event tbh

Not that that excuses anything obviously

I get what you are saying. I'm just glad no one was seriously injured, sounds like it could have been worse. Just disgusted by the American right wing going all in on further fanning the flames.

In London I counted literally one counterprotestor, standing in front of the Silver Cross (pub), enflanked by three cops. Two other cops were stood a few feet away. The guy had a mask completely covering his face so we couldn't see it, and a St George's cross flag. He had written some things on the flag but the cops were standing so close to him that we couldn't read what he'd written. This of course led to the joke 'what do you call a racist surrounded by three cops' 'FOUR racists!' waheyyyy

Trudeau's statement is a bigger problem but maybe it's the random poster we got to focus on.

― xyzzzz__, Monday, October 23, 2023 7:26 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

what's stopping you from posting the statement and offering your own take (or not) instead of posting some twitter weirdo?

Trudeau's statement is absolutely horrifying

VC - felt the anger at that was justified, even if I can quibble with the wording I am going to give it slack given what the rando is reacting to.

🚨 NEW: Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez has called for a ceasefire in Israel and Palestine.

He joins other leaders such as Humza Yousaf (First Minister of Scotland), Leo Varadkar (Taoiseach of Ireland) and Gustavo Petro (President of Colombia). pic.twitter.com/zS2Q26owN0

— Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️ 🇵🇸 (@LeftieStats) October 23, 2023

"Over 4000 Palestinians have been killed in this conflict.

They are also the victims."

First time I've seen Sunak acknowledge them at all

5000 now...25K by end of year? Despicable

Trudeau's statement is absolutely horrifying

NDP MPP Sarah Jama has faced condemnation (even from NDP leader Marit Stiles) for calling for a cease-fire, Doug “Shithead” Ford immediately jumped on this to demand her immediate termination, and today she has been terminated.

Her statement is here, via Twitter:

Thirteen days ago, I called for an immediate ceasefire and de-escalation by the Israeli government, which had begun a horrific siege on Palestinians in Gaza. Since I made that statement, Israel has only escalated its assault on millions of Gazans. 1/ pic.twitter.com/b9iuu0ogbd

— Sarah Jama (she/her) (@SarahJama_) October 23, 2023

apologies if this has already been posted but these interviews with palestinians in gaza from last week are good:

https://jewishcurrents.org/dispatches-from-gaza

Pretty insane how pleading for the fighting to stop (i.e. the bombings, the dying including children) is being met with this warped response. Even when factoring in the Israeli hostages - how bringing them home should be THE priority and how continuing this military campaign instead of negotiating is gambling with their safety - that doesn't seem to dissuade some histrionic accusations being thrown about.

I believe there is some chat about podcasts elsewhere on this site. This sounds fun.

I am listening to this weeks Ha'aretz podcast "The Week". Remember guys, these are the liberal, sensible, peace-loving, human rights & rule of law respecting, anti-Netanyahu pro-democracy Good Israelis 🧵https://t.co/d11wLylfCW

— Fílos of Hippos (@HolyLandRed1) October 23, 2023

"the"

How many people actually believed Herzog anyway? I could be wrong but this gambit of the Israeli government to link Hamas with Isis and present them as a threat to Western civilization as a whole seems to be falling on deaf ears.

it's getting a lot of uncritical uptake from the western press which is all they're hoping for. anyone paying attention can tell it's obvious bullshit but that isn't who they're trying to convince

I have no idea what the Western press are saying but I have no doubt they know it's bullshit too.

For the record, this was the tweet. https://t.co/YotbhjLkRZ pic.twitter.com/dg7VqdKVVD

— Rivkah Brown (@rivkahbrown) October 23, 2023

https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505

There’s a petition of notable celebrities, mostly of the “I never liked you” variety but with a couple of “wtf, Eric Andre?” moments, congratulating Biden for his actions, claiming Hamas are the primary force oppressing Palestinians, signed by a list of people from whom I will never work for, in some cases have worked for and will never do so again:

https://www.nohostageleftbehind.com/

Meanwhile, Amy Schumer posted on her IG that “The holocaust happened because of propaganda” and I agree with that fact, Amy Schumer, check your other fucking posts for further evidence to that fact you nihilistic bloodless shithead

https://x.com/stevesosebee/status/1716637441895854390?s=46&t=ybWek2m57bcE72i3ldMsfA

surreal to me to see eisen’s case being so widely disseminated. he’s always seemed like a good dude to me and I hope/suspect he lands on his feet. even if elife did reject a paper of mine a couple of years ago

Yeah it's utterly bizarre instance of it. I don't know him or the obscure journal but it's an instance of a few people losing jobs or work because of tweeting pro-Palestinian matter.

but with a couple of “wtf, Eric Andre?” moments,

Andre was also shilling NFTs not too long ago, love his show but guess the chaotic neutral shtick is less appealing irl.

lol why are UK panel show cunts on this list

otoh there's this: https://www.artists4ceasefire.org/

If you retweet this - and you should - you should know that the director of Yesh Din, Ziv Stahl, was in Kfar Aza on 7th October, hiding with her family an entire day as her neighbours were murdered. She continues to stand for humanity. https://t.co/cL0hwQCRzp

— Yair Wallach (@YairWallach) October 24, 2023

The only thread on the geopolitics in the region that -- while you may disagree with some of it -- is packed with interesting detail.

Here's a thread outlining the geopolitical situation around the Israel-Gaza war its possibilities, impossibilities, and possible outcomes. Heads up, it's my longest thread yet. It's also raw, unedited, and unevenly paced. Sorry, none of us are well but at least we're trying

— İyad el-Baghdadi | إياد البغدادي (@iyad_elbaghdadi) October 23, 2023

lol pic.twitter.com/B5yFHRVGpD

— Spooky Lolo 🎃 (@LolOverruled) October 24, 2023

I stopped reading that "geopolitical analysis" when he suggested that Bibi's only two options are to "resign" or to "ethnically cleanse 2 million Palestinians." Neither of those two things are going to happen. Bibi is not really at the wheel anymore. There's a wartime unity government, and when this is over, Bibi's coalition will be no more. Israel's stated war aim is to depose Hamas and to come up with some kind of situation where they are no longer responsible for Gaza under international law. I have no idea what that looks like or if it's feasible. But not even having a basic understanding of Israeli parliamentary politics and coalition governments casts a lot of doubt on his "geopolitical analysis" chops.

Amazing list

Lana Del Ray, Patti Lupone, everyone's new comedy favorite Emma Seligman

It’sa twitter thread so probably oversimplifying some things. he goes on to say that:

The most likely outcome is he'll go in as far as he can but as the risks rise for everyone he'll have to stop, declare victory and pull out.

The report card will be:
- Israel isn't safer
- Relations with long-term partners (Egypt & Jordan) damaged
- Impossible for Saudi to normalize for a while
- Real damage to US standing in the region
- Hamas can claim victory because it wasn't destroyed

I dunno now Wikipedia is telling me Seligman is a member of Jewish Voice for Peace and signed a petition for a cease fire, now I don't know what to believe.

I really don't want to make excuses for anyone on there but I'd bet a number of those people still naively believe releasing the hostages would also result in a ceasefire, therefore it's a much better public position to take. i.e. It hasn't penetrated their ecosystem that Israel doesn't care about the hostages and in fact has killed a number of them so far. Furthermore, it wouldn't surprise me if many of them didn't know or care about the wording of the actual letter and were just asked to sign a petition about releasing hostages, which sounds nice. And celebs like everything to be nice.

Sarah Cooper? the woman who got famous for lipsynching to Trump videos? does that really count as a celebrity?

Twitter thread was useful on Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Saudi and different calculations of various actors.

Also very interesting on the tunnel network that has been built. And the kind of repercussions in moving Palestinians to Egypt xp

I really don't want to make excuses for anyone on there but I'd bet a number of those people still naively believe releasing the hostages would also result in a ceasefire, therefore it's a much better public position to take. i.e. It hasn't penetrated their ecosystem that Israel doesn't care about the hostages and in fact has killed a number of them so far. Furthermore, it wouldn't surprise me if many of them didn't know or care about the wording of the actual letter and were just asked to sign a petition about releasing hostages, which sounds nice. And celebs like everything to be nice.

I think there's a fair amount of naivety and "sure I'll sign, I don't need to read it" happening, sure. But a letter congratulating Biden for standing with Israel and which refers to Palestinians solely as "victims of Hamas"...not great.

I can't not be curious about the tier system - three alphabetical lists of celebs, who decided who was in which list?

I have a lot of questions too but also feel a bit bad talking about celeb shit itt, tho a "celebrity reaction to Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events" thread would prob be overkill, lol.

The idea that Israel "doesn't care about the hostages" is absurd, baseless, and borderline offensive. Israel currently has 150ish families of hostages among its citizens plus all their friends and extended families. It has thousands of immediate families of the murdered and wounded, and hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, directly know someone who was killed or kidnapped. Even if you believe that Bibi is an unfeeling psychopath, he alone is not "Israel" or even the Israeli government, and Israelis very much care about getting the hostages back.

It seems like this myth arises from an old military concept called the Hannibal Directive that applies to kidnapped soldiers, not civilians, is debated, is not an official policy of the IDF, and has only even arguably been invoked a few times. It's just a convenient fantasy to rely on, a nation so uniquely evil that it doesn't actually even care about its own people, which ironically is exactly the kind of rhetoric used to demonize Palestinians.

I should have worded that better to clarify I was talking about the tactics of the IDF and Netanyahu's government, not all Israelis.

Re: that list of celebrities crawling over one another to congratulate Biden, this is probably the first time many people have felt pressured to really think about or take a position about the situation so it's unsurprising that so many hot takes feel super uninformed and hastily scrabbled together. I think the thing that people far too often forget in this social media-saturated environment of ours, though, is that you don't need to (and almost certainly should not) share a hot take on every fucking thing under the sun, particularly with respect to things that you clearly don't understand even a little bit.

I should have worded that better to clarify I was talking about the tactics of the IDF and Netanyahu's government, not all Israelis.

― Chris L, Tuesday, October 24, 2023 8:37 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I don't think that's true either.

It's just a convenient fantasy to rely on, a nation so uniquely evil that it doesn't actually even care about its own people, which ironically is exactly the kind of rhetoric used to demonize Palestinians.

fwiw I don't think that's "uniquely evil" at all? the calculus of whether or not to sacrifice hostages has happened many times in many wars.

xp I think they are acting with complete recklessness not just in terms of international law but in regard to the fate of the hostages. One surviving hostage confirmed several of them were already killed by Israeli troops in crossfire with Hamas, in a story that was subsequently censored.