Is the US a dystopia?

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I'm eager to see how eagerly they bend around this when one of the one of the trolly right wing grifters that tour college campuses gets brought in speak

joygoat, Monday, 23 October 2023 18:35 (eleven months ago) link

I would just teach the way I’ve always taught.

Some people will, especially at the college level. But it's a lot dicier in K-12, where teachers and administrators tend to be very conflict-averse. Not many are likely to challenge even clearly unconstitutional laws, and it's already having impact in classrooms.

I'm eager to see how eagerly they bend around this when one of the one of the trolly right wing grifters that tour college campuses gets brought in speak

Not a problem. They are only after "woke" speech. They can simultaneously believe that they should be able to legally restrict left-wing ideas and mandate right-wing ideas, because their concern has nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with ideology and control.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, 23 October 2023 18:37 (eleven months ago) link

What they are attacking is the whole idea of "content-neutral restrictions," which has been the heart of free speech jurisprudence for ages.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, 23 October 2023 18:41 (eleven months ago) link

like it wouldn't take much to get the, idk, Black Student Union shut down

― rob

i mean shit like this is already happening

one of my friends is a nurse in texas, the hospital is owned by a university which is owned by the state

for the past three years they've had a DEI committee. i mean a lot of the big places, they've had DEI committees these days. the health system i work for, which is privately owned and pretends to be nonprofit, even though it isn't actually, they have a DEI committee. i mean DEI committees... they can be frustrating to those of us who are part of those marginalized groups. i mean they don't really _do_ anything, you know? they're there to try and make us feel better about all of the shit we're going through, but they don't actually change any of the shit we're going through. they help us connect with each other and talk to each other and commisserate. it's, like, bake-sale shit. maybe you do voluntary trainings (always _voluntary_) for people who want to be educated about the issues that face us, and that feels good. i guess that does something. i guess it's easy to be frustrated that they're not doing enough.

where my friend works, they're shutting down the DEI committee. because of SB 17 down there. i mean we're not really talking about a "chilling effect", this is more than that. she sees the writing on the wall. a lot of people there do. if you can get out, you get out. she's working to get out. she's not desperate enough to just drop everything and run. yet. i've got friends who were that desperate.

i do feel lucky that i got out early, that i had the privilege to get out early. not because i was scared of _them_, but because i was scared of _myself_. i saw what people around me, ordinary people, people i thought were basically alright, were becoming, and i was terrified that i'd become like them. social contagion, doncha know. and it was stupid, the social contagion argument only goes so far. i look at my youngest sibling who lives in indiana now, and they're not doing great, but they're getting queerer and queerer by the day. they're scared of the queer (adults in their 20s, not "kids", don't call adults "kids" kate, it's rude) they hang out with, they're middle-aged and it's all weird to them but at the same time they're spending more and more time around the queer folks and... there's hope for people a lot of places, these days. austin, i heard austin is the third biggest city in the country for queer people. i mean you find safety where you can even if it's only temporary. my ex wanted us to go to canada in november 2016 and i said no, let's go to portland oregon instead, it's too hard for us to get into canada. and hopefully that's good enough.

---

and, well... i guess it's ok for me to vent about capitalism a little bit

the bandcamp thing, where they got bought out by a bigger company and then the bigger company laid off half their staff

they were a good site doing good work and people loved them. it was a niche thing but having a site on the internet people genuinely loved... it's such a rare thing

and such a temporary thing. like not by accident, that's just how tech _works_

nobody makes money unless you're owned by one of the big tech companies, google or facebook or whatever. nobody else can compete. so the way people get around it is they get venture capital, they come up with a business model and they gamble. they gamble that they can attract the attention of one of the giants, and the giants will spend what is to them very little money but is to the startup an exorbitant amount of money to buy them. that's startup culture. and it's the venture capitalists who benefit so in the meantime the people working there get a living wage for doing something they're passionate about.

the thing is, no matter what happened those people would've got laid off. the big companies would've cut them loose because they don't buy companies for the _people_, the buy them for the _brand_. bailouts like the bandcamp case, you know, you do what you can but there's only so much you can support a money loser. and if neither of those things happen, at some point the paychecks start bouncing.

it doesn't _work_. none of this fucking _works_. i mean, this boot isn't _actually_ going to be stamping on our faces forever, is it?

real life doesn't work like that. i just have to keep reminding myself that.

Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 25 October 2023 13:13 (eleven months ago) link

one month passes...

As a former cancer patient, it is difficult to express the range of my fury at reading articles like this:

This woman lost her arm because of the healthcare industry’s greed

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 19 December 2023 12:26 (nine months ago) link

First paragraph of "Why You Should Hate Capitalism" should begin with this section from the article:

In interviews, more than a dozen current and former executives affiliated with the generic drug industry described many risks that discourage a company from increasing production that might ease the shortages.

They said prices were pushed so low that making lifesaving medicines could result in bankruptcy.

Formica Jordan (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 19 December 2023 15:15 (nine months ago) link

fucking ghouls

Formica Jordan (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 19 December 2023 15:15 (nine months ago) link

Even within our currently dystopian capitalism it seems like you can just raise the prices on medications people need to survive, you don't also have to collude with the rest of the industry to keep things extra horrible

Nhex, Tuesday, 19 December 2023 15:56 (nine months ago) link

"first, do no harm...those who wish to do great physical harm to others must first step two feet to the right, on the business side of healthcare"

z_tbd, Tuesday, 19 December 2023 16:22 (nine months ago) link

Another, this time about the Medicaid cliff that occurred earlier this year.

Land of the Free, Home of the Sick and Dying

Truly wish there was a way for me and my husband to renounce our citizenship and move to a place that was at least somewhat more robust in its care for its citizenry.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Wednesday, 20 December 2023 12:36 (nine months ago) link

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-12-19/750-a-month-no-questions-asked-improved-the-lives-of-homeless-people

Putting this here because every year of my life someone will run another one of these studies, the results will be the same and public policy won't move a millimeter.

papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 20 December 2023 17:38 (nine months ago) link

not taking action on clear empirical solutions is one thing, but Kentucky can do you better:

https://www.lpm.org/news/2024-01-02/proposed-anti-crime-bill-makes-street-camping-illegal-in-kentucky

Louisville-area Republican state lawmakers plan to sponsor legislation in January that would ban street camping, add unlawful camping to Kentucky’s “stand your ground” law and cut funding for Housing First initiatives.

rob, Tuesday, 2 January 2024 16:31 (nine months ago) link

what's the right's beef with housing first--"they didn't earn it"?

Expansion to Mackerel (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 2 January 2024 20:17 (nine months ago) link

The 'right' sees any government regulation of, or participation in, housing as interference in the free market, a horrifying crime that jeopardizes the freedom of the owning class to profit by the misery of others.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Tuesday, 2 January 2024 20:23 (nine months ago) link

Housing First is under widespread right-wing assault. Their argument is that it's a.) not working (because hey look we still have all these homeless people), and b.) too expensive (which is obviously the real problem for them, they would much rather spend that money keeping people in jail).

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/us/politics/federal-policy-on-homelessness-becomes-new-target-of-the-right.html

Never mind that keeping people in jail is far more expensive, both in terms of dollars spent and in terms of lost opportunities.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 2 January 2024 22:12 (nine months ago) link

jeopardizes the freedom of the owning class to profit

This is the sole criterion by which they measure any policy.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 2 January 2024 22:14 (nine months ago) link

Just read an article in the post today that that main anti-housing first guy is a cofounder of Palantir and pal of Peter Theil. I don’t know why these guys don’t just drop the euphemisms and go full “kill the poor”.

Expansion to Mackerel (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 2 January 2024 23:32 (nine months ago) link

Because it's the Wall Street Journal so fuck 'em (and they have one of the strongest paywalls around), here's an article on the collapse of the insurance industry:

After Allstate suffered billions of dollars in losses and failed to get the rate increases it wanted, it resorted to the nuclear option.

The insurance giant threatened last fall to stop renewing auto insurance for customers in three states that hadn’t given in to its demands, which would have left those policyholders scrambling for coverage. The states blinked.

In December, New Jersey approved auto rate increases for Allstate averaging 17%, and New York, a 15% hike. Regulators in California are allowing Allstate to boost auto rates by 30%, but still haven’t decided on its request for a 40% increase in home-insurance rates after the insurer refused to write new policies.

For many Americans, getting insurance for both their cars and homes has gone from a routine, generally manageable expense to a do-or-die ordeal that can strain household budgets.

Insurers are coming off some of their worst years in history. Catastrophic damage from storms and wildfires is one big reason. The past decade of global natural catastrophes has been the costliest ever. Warmer temperatures have made storms worse and contributed to droughts that have elevated wildfire risk. Too many new homes were built in areas at risk of fire.

As losses mounted, inflation only made matters worse, boosting the cost of repairing or replacing cars or homes.

Climate change also has made it harder for insurers to measure their risks, pushing some to demand even higher premiums to cushion against future losses.

“I have never seen the overall market this bad,” said Barry Gilway, a 52-year veteran of the industry who retired in 2023 as head of Florida’s Citizens Property Insurance, a state-created insurer of last resort that sells plans to people who can’t get coverage elsewhere.

Homeowners and drivers are facing sharply rising premiums, less coverage and fewer, if any, choices of insurer. In some places, the only options are bare bones coverage or none at all. That can make homes worth less and harder to sell, and cars less affordable.

Farmers Insurance Group increased home-insurance rates by more than 23% last year for tens of thousands of policyholders in both Illinois and Texas, according to S&P Global Market Intelligence. Nationwide Mutual said it won’t renew 10,525 home-insurance policies in hurricane-prone areas of North Carolina.

State Farm racked up $13 billion in property-casualty underwriting losses in 2022, its worst ever. Last year, it stopped writing new home-insurance policies in California. The state’s regulators last month approved a 20% home-insurance rate increase.

“This is just the worst possible scenario you could think of for consumers,” said Timothy Gaspar, head of a Los Angeles-based insurance agency. The mass retreat of insurers from the state means there is nothing to offer people seeking new home or auto insurance, he said.

A Farmers spokeswoman said its rate increases were designed to “better reflect the increased risk and claims costs we continue to face.” A Nationwide spokesman said the company was being more selective about where it writes policies in response to inflation and market disruptions.

A State Farm spokesman said the rate increases were driven by increased costs and risk, and that the company continued to look for ways to maintain competitive rates.

Allstate Chief Executive Tom Wilson defended the threat to yank auto coverage in the three states that generated heavy losses. “We can’t afford to use shareholder money…to support an underpriced product,” he said. A company spokesman said the “rate approvals allow us to protect more customers as we work with state regulators to improve insurance availability.”

Last summer, Marta Cross, an actress, bought a new home with her musician husband in northeast Los Angeles. Their new neighborhood in the San Rafael Hills, called Mount Washington, has lots of trees but no recent history of wildfires, she said, and no fire-zone warning signs.

Nevertheless, their house purchase almost fell apart when she was unable to get insurance from any private-sector company because of wildfire risk. “It was really hairy,” she said. “The seller’s agent was in touch every day, saying, ‘What’s happening with the insurance?’”

She contacted a local mothers’ group for advice. “Several moms started to be concerned, saying, wait, does this mean I’m not covered?” Cross recalled. She ended up buying fire coverage with the state’s insurer of last resort and a supplemental policy to cover other risks, as required by her mortgage lender.

The combined premiums total more than $4,000 a year. That’s around $1,500 more than if she had qualified for a regular home-insurance policy, according to her insurance agent, Nick Ramirez of Goosehead Insurance. “I’m considering forgoing earthquake insurance so I can have fire insurance,” Cross said. “And praying.”

U.S. property-casualty insurers, who issue home and auto policies, racked up $32.2 billion in net underwriting losses in the first nine months of 2023, $7.6 billion worse than in the same period a year earlier, according to a December report by ratings firm AM Best.

Tough times are nothing new for insurers. They are in the business of predicting the future. When losses are low, companies such as Progressive and Geico—known to consumers for their ubiquitous ads featuring, respectively, Flo and the gecko—fight for customers. When disasters hit, they tally their losses and raise prices or cut offerings.

Big profits often follow, leading to complaints from consumers and regulators. Shares of insurers, including Allstate’s, already have rebounded in anticipation of higher profits. Nevertheless, the industry’s traditional business model is under pressure and, some think, broken.

Insurance premiums have outpaced inflation. Car insurance rates increased 19.2% in the 12 months through November, six times the rise in overall consumer prices, Labor Department data show. It was the 15th consecutive month of double-digit percentage increases in premiums, year-over-year, the longest stretch of such high hikes since the mid-1980s, according to S&P Global.

Simon Edwards drives a 2012 Mazda 5 in his hometown of Las Vegas. The monthly premium of his Geico auto insurance, he said, has shot up 72% in less than a year, from $130 in April to $223 now. “I’ve been in no accidents, no tickets, been with Geico for many years,” he said.

Home insurers have faced premium increases from their own insurers, known as reinsurers. Reinsurance prices for last year were up 30% to 50%, and insurers were forced to take on more risk, said Neil Alldredge, head of the National Association of Mutual Insurance Companies. Reinsurers, more than almost any other industry, are focused on climate risks.

Prices for coverage can be all over the place, forcing consumers to shop around. Nancy Piel, who lives Lake Forest, Ill., a Chicago suburb, contacted three agents last year after Nationwide increased the cost of insuring her two homes and 2011 minivan to $18,000. According to one agent, Chubb quoted even more: $29,000. She ended up insuring with Cincinnati Insurance for $10,500. The coverages were all very similar, she said. Chubb, which caters to high-net-worth customers, offers services not typically available with mainstream policies.

Not all homeowners have the luxury of getting competing quotes. “We assume people have choices…go shop it and you’ll find it,” said Debbie Mayfield, a Florida state senator, at a hearing last year. “Well, I’ll tell you, it’s been shopped and you can’t find it.” Her district includes part of hurricane-prone Brevard County.

Among the factors pushing up the price of auto insurance: Prices of new and used cars, and parts, have risen, more people are driving expensive vehicles, and extreme weather is destroying more cars.

“I’ve been here 27 years, and we’ve never increased auto rates in the way we have in the last two years,” said Allstate CEO Wilson.

Wilson asked hundreds of his company’s agents at a fall event in Orlando how customers were reacting. “I was like, ‘How’s it going? What are people saying? If I’d said to you three years ago we were going to raise auto prices by 17.5% in one year, you would have thrown me out.’ ”

The answer he got back, Wilson said, was that “people understand it, they understand that their cars and their houses are worth more money.” But, he said, “it’s clearly a burden for customers, and we need to figure out what to do about it.”

Some consumers are opting to forgo coverage—if they have a choice. Most mortgage lenders require borrowers to have home insurance. Richard Redmond was quoted $7,500 a year for federal flood insurance for his new home on a barrier island on Florida’s east coast. “I chose to forgo the flood policy,” he said. “A $7,500 annual fee for $350,000 of coverage makes no sense.”

Inflation, higher reinsurance rates and lawsuits are part of doing business for insurers. Climate change is a wild card. When insurers can’t quantify a risk, they charge more to cover it, or avoid it completely.

“Climate change will destabilize the global insurance industry,” research firm Forrester Research predicted in a fall report. Increasingly extreme weather will make it harder for insurance companies to model and predict exposures, accurately calculate reserves, offer coverage and pay claims, the report said. As a result, Forrester forecast, “more insurers will leave markets besides the high-stakes states like California, Florida, and Louisiana.”

Allstate CEO Wilson said: “There will be insurance deserts.”

Insurance deserts, where private-sector companies no longer will sell regular home-insurance policies, are already developing in high-risk areas. Florida’s insurer of last resort is now the main provider of home coverage in that state.

In California’s wildfire-prone San Bernardino County, insurers in 2021 refused to renew 1,355 policies in a zip code that abuts Lake Arrowhead, north of San Bernardino, up sharply from 157 refusals in 2015, according to an analysis by research firm First Street Foundation.

In November, Chaucer Group, a London-based reinsurer, named several regions once considered low risk for wildfires that it said are “quickly becoming areas of concern for catastrophic wildfire insurance losses.” They include mountainous areas between Salt Lake City and Denver, and the Appalachian Mountains from Tennessee to New York.

Another concern is Texas, partly because of increased development on the fringes of metropolitan areas stemming from migration from California, the report said.

Insurers say they won’t completely abandon risky areas. “I don’t think it’s like the insurance industry said, we’re done here, you’re on your own,” said Allstate’s Wilson. “It’s just, there are certain places where if we can’t spread the cost appropriately and we can’t price it, then we shouldn’t do it.”

Insurance agents and analysts said many insurers are “quiet quitting” high-risk areas rather than face the public relations or regulatory fallout from an official exit.

“Most of the carriers have just flat out said, we are not accepting new business right now [in California]. But that statement is made to insurance agencies, not the public,” said Gaspar, the Los Angeles agency head. “Or they’re making it next to impossible to get a new policy.”

Companies are choking off new business by slashing advertising, closing sales offices or erecting barriers to getting quotes.

State Farm spent 72% less on broadcast and cable advertising in the nine months through Sept. 30, compared with the year-earlier period, according to advertising tracking company AdImpact. Geico cut back by 81%, the data show. A State Farm spokesman confirmed ad spending was down, but said the company didn’t think tracking services completely captured its marketing spending.

Geico in 2022 closed all its sales offices in California. Search for an agent on the Geico website, and the alphabetical list of states skips straight from Arkansas to Colorado. California appears not to exist. A Geico spokesman said customers still have the option to buy its policies in California directly from the company.

Agents say another common technique for restricting unprofitable growth is insisting on hard-to-locate paperwork upfront. Proof that the plumbing’s been updated, say, or documentation of work done on the roof. “It’s a way to say, we don’t want the business,” said Gaspar.

Last summer, Nationwide said it was requiring customers to supply documentation before the company would provide quotes for some new home or auto insurance products in certain states. The company, which declined to name the affected states, said the move was a response to “strong headwinds” buffeting the industry.

For years, state regulations kept insurance relatively cheap in California. Insurers usually requested rate increases of less than 7% because of a 35-year-old law that made it harder to raise rates by more.

That 7% norm appears to be a thing of the past. State Farm and others stopped selling new home insurance in the state. “For many Californians, this is an insurance emergency,” state insurance commissioner Ricardo Lara told state legislators in December.

The state regulator granted ASI Select Insurance, owned by Progressive, a 25% average home-insurance rate increase last August, affecting more than 40,000 policyholders, state filings show. Progressive didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Last fall, Lara said he would accede to a longstanding industry demand to allow rate increases to reflect predicted future losses from wildfires, rather than historic damages only. The regulator also said he would consider allowing companies to pass reinsurance cost increases through to policyholders.

Other states deserted by many big insurers, including Florida, are trying to tempt companies back by making it harder for policyholders to sue them.

Despite some concessions from regulators, insurers are bracing for a tough future. Allstate’s Wilson said that everywhere in the country is at some risk from increasingly severe weather. “There is no place that’s safe,” he said, “and no place that’s not going to be impacted.”

Given America's gun culture I kinda feel like we could just replace auto insurance with duels held at roadside, loser pays all costs for both vehicles.

Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Monday, 8 January 2024 17:49 (eight months ago) link

feel like some states are going to keep on heading to a housing/auto wild west where nobody can get homeowner's insurance or auto insurance at all and thus can't get mortgages or car loans

Disco Biollante (Neanderthal), Monday, 8 January 2024 17:56 (eight months ago) link

I feel about insurance the way I feel about coat checks at clubs: If it's mandatory, it should be free. If you're legally requiring people to have insurance, then there has to be a provider to give it to them no matter what. If that's the government, fine. Personally, I think people should forgo insurance and just learn to be a little more Zen about their possessions, but I recognize that that's a minority opinion.

Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Monday, 8 January 2024 18:02 (eight months ago) link

insurance covers more than possessions is the very obvious rejoinder

close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Monday, 8 January 2024 18:25 (eight months ago) link

the requirement to have it for vehicles, in execution, isn't for any benefit of the populace, it's used as a classist mechanism to prevent poor people from wrecking rich people's expensive rides and the poor rich folk having to spend more money out of pocket to fix their phallic symbol.

in a perfect world, everybody would have insurance, but on a sliding scale, cost-wise. instead, insurers penalize struggling people by jacking up rates for people with low credit scores, which just means these people can't afford to repair their car or do maintenance on it, and then have to put themselves and other people at risk by driving vehicles with significant problems. ironically causing more accidental and personal injury claims to pay out.

my best friend told me how much she pays a month for car insurance and I almost shit. I thought mine was high.

Disco Biollante (Neanderthal), Monday, 8 January 2024 18:28 (eight months ago) link

There is a mildly amusing early 1990s fantasy novel called Flying Dutch, by Tom Holt.

In it, a sea captain buys an insurance policy but mysteriously fails to die. The result is that the value of his insurance policy becomes worth more than the entire world's economy.

Insurance remains a weirdly circular problem - you can't afford a disaster, but part of the reason you can't afford a disaster is because you've spent much of your life paying someone money just in case you have a disaster.

And because lots of people have insurance, lots of disasters are paid for from the pool. And the pricing reflects that, and everyone involved knows it. But the industry knows how to count, so it ensures that they always profit.

A mess. Just one of many messes we have inherited from our elders.

CthulhuLululemon (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 8 January 2024 19:09 (eight months ago) link

But the industry knows how to count, so it ensures that they always profit.

The whole basis of the insurance industry is using statistics to predict future risk within large aggregates. The underlying statistics always rest on past events and are modified to predict the future by incorporating known trends. The 'collapse' of the insurance industry isn't because they stopped knowing how to count, but due to the collapse of stability within many of the systems where insurance gets applied. When your business is making reliable predictions in relatively stable systems then their breakdown into chaos is fatal to your business model.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 8 January 2024 19:41 (eight months ago) link

Does Jake from State Farm know about this?

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 8 January 2024 21:22 (eight months ago) link

So many threads this gem could go on, but this feels like the right fit

The fact that the Supreme Court is deciding whether it should be legal for homeless people to have pillows and blankets while they sleep outside shows just how depraved the United States really is.

— Commie Trucker (@commie_trucker) January 13, 2024

Wack Snyder (Eric H.), Sunday, 14 January 2024 16:14 (eight months ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDz6YXlX0AAsQtg?format=jpg&name=small

mookieproof, Sunday, 14 January 2024 20:08 (eight months ago) link

Within the margin of error of fully half of the country. Cool story, America!

Wack Snyder (Eric H.), Sunday, 14 January 2024 20:13 (eight months ago) link

primary voters still seem pretty solid in that one

Nhex, Sunday, 14 January 2024 22:28 (eight months ago) link

That's not half the country it's almost half of the registered voters in the country

a (waterface), Wednesday, 17 January 2024 16:43 (eight months ago) link

How do you even poison blood that is already 47% poison

Great-Tasting Burger Perceptions (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 17 January 2024 16:45 (eight months ago) link

The company (Macy's) is reportedly trying to transition in order to appeal to a younger generation of shoppers.

sounds bad

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 20 January 2024 20:53 (eight months ago) link

Department stores are a vanishing world, like print journalism. We can be wistful about it but we can't stop either trend now. It's too late.

I have a lot of fond memories of both, but they did not and could not adapt. People having the sad feelz about department stores now are mostly people who voted with their wallets and feet 20 years ago.

Wine not? (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 20 January 2024 21:10 (eight months ago) link

I have no fond memories of department stores. Most of my memories are of waiting for my mom to finish her interminable shopping.

Well, I suppose there was playing hide and seek with my brother in the clothes racks. But that was frowned upon.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 20 January 2024 21:28 (eight months ago) link

...and the lone and solitary K-Marts stretch off into the distance

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 20 January 2024 21:37 (eight months ago) link

two remaining Kmarts

ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Saturday, 20 January 2024 21:50 (eight months ago) link

K-Mart always smelled bad to me. Very similar to the burnt popcorn/hair perm smell of Woolworth's, but somehow shabbier.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 20 January 2024 21:53 (eight months ago) link

that era where discount department stores tried to expand wildly as standalones, as opposed to department stores which were usually in a mall or mall-adjacent, post-Walmart was something. we already had Target in the upper midwest pre-Walmart, and Walmart’s entire model was to open outside of cities. we briefly had Venture and probably a couple others before the bottom dropped out

ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Saturday, 20 January 2024 22:00 (eight months ago) link

OK.

In my experience, East Coast cities often had two (or more) department stores that were located right next to each other, and theoreticallly competed, but were actually mutually engaged in providing a very specific experience.

You went to Macy's then Gimbel's. You went to Wanamaker's or Filene's. Saks Fifth Avenue.

In Washington you could go to Woodward & Lothrop, Hecht's, Garfinkel's, Lord & Taylor.

In Richmond you could go to Thalheimer's and Miller & Rhoads.

Everyone had their preferences; there were (in a sense) choices. My grandmother took me to tea in their tea rooms.

Yeah surely they were all just as much of a capitalist scam as Amazon or Target or Wal-Mart or whatever, but all I am trying to say is that it is a world that existed, and it is now vanished.

Ditto the thump of the newspaper on the doorstep signaling the beginning of the day and a now-vanished world of relative consensus about the things that are happening.

Wine not? (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 20 January 2024 22:33 (eight months ago) link

Oh, one more pairing: in St. Louis, Famous-Barr and Styx Baer Fuller. Later, Dillard's and Nordstom.

It's not like I bear any personal loyalty to those specific businesses (I don't owe them anything, they just wanted to make money.) I can sympathize with people who are wistful about brands, but for me it's just that was a whole world, in which I worked, and it's basically vanished.

Wine not? (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 20 January 2024 22:39 (eight months ago) link

I have many fond memories of department stores, Burdines/Macy's in particular. I actually still go on on occasion because the sales are excellent -- went to Macy's last month!

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 20 January 2024 23:07 (eight months ago) link

buncha straight dudes, the lot of you

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 20 January 2024 23:07 (eight months ago) link

Oh -- Target is a vast improvement over Kmart and its forebears. I never mind going.

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 20 January 2024 23:08 (eight months ago) link

do you all remember the before times. before the supermarket was built around us? when we went to the store instead of working in it. all the best, just a guy here in aisle 28, near the office supplies

z_tbd, Saturday, 20 January 2024 23:12 (eight months ago) link

There was a chain in Michigan (and probably in other states in the Midwest) called Grant's. For my five-year-old self, it was a utopia: they had the best toy section I can remember. The Marx "historical" figures were the gold standard.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 20 January 2024 23:13 (eight months ago) link

I liked the smaller standalone department stores that were already dying when I was a kid - there was a Stripling & Cox a couple of blocks from my house in the kind of '70s construction shopping center that houses a beauty salon supply store, a Magic The Gathering store and a bunch of empty storefronts now. It was maybe a third the size of the anchors at the new mall but managed to fit all the standard departments though the brands might not have been the top shelf (they did have Girbaud and Mossimo jeans though).

papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 20 January 2024 23:41 (eight months ago) link

when i was a kid pittsburgh had kaufmann's and horne's (both local) plus gimbels

mookieproof, Saturday, 20 January 2024 23:42 (eight months ago) link

i still go to a department store at least a couple of times a month to get eg underwear, a small dehumidifier, a serving spoon etc because it’s easier than searching all that shit up online

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 20 January 2024 23:53 (eight months ago) link


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