Israel/Palestine post 10/7 - follow-on events/thoughts as relate to other countries

Best piece I've read on literary culture at this time. Hard not to conclude the whole thing is a disgrace.

https://thebaffler.com/latest/at-the-threshold-of-humanity-kattan

Don't know much about this organization but this seems like one way to counteract those who try to stir hate:

The pro-Palestine protesters made it clear that the masked neo-Nazis were not welcome, chanting “Nazis Go Home,” and “show your faces, you fucking cowards,” the Daily Montanan reported.

That is just one of the tactics that organizers of pro-Palestine solidarity protests can use to make clear to neo-Nazis that they are not welcome in that movement, according to Ben Lorber, an extremism expert who is working on a book about antisemitism. “It is vital for Palestine liberation organizers and progressive activists to recognize and counter far-right actors who stand diametrically opposed to the movement’s principles and goals,” Lorber wrote in a recent guide for organizers.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7zx5a/neo-nazis-hijack-pro-palestine-protest-mike-enoch

Personally, I find it much better to see an effort to recognize and counteract this kind of thing, rather than dismissing or denying that it exists

that's encouraging

Black-Jewish Alliance ✊🏿✡
@BlackJewishA
Police are attempting to arrest Jews in prayer.

We shout “let us pray” for Palestine.

The police have confiscated copies of our speeches.

GET YOUR COP HANDS OFF OUR JEWISH COMRADES

Video of harassment within that tweet.

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2023/11/02/frick-museum-in-pittsburgh-postpones-islamic-art-exhibition-over-fears-it-would-appear-insensitive-or-traumatic-amid-gaza-war

“When war broke out in the Middle East, we were as heartbroken as everyone, and we realised that we were about to open an exhibition that a forgiving person would call insensitive, but for many people, especially in our community, would be traumatic.”

it's so insensitive and traumatic that muslims exist

this whole thing is so devastating.

This is where stuff like "It would be insensitive to publish this book about Soviet dissidents at this time" leads to.

yeah that is obviously ridiculous

An Israeli air strike on the Bureij refugee camp today

https://x.com/ramabdu/status/1720067423238308122

If you use this thread on anything going on in Gaza or Israel.

Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events: Oct 23 on

The dissonance in reading about individuals expressing concerns about anti-Semitic violence rising in North America while 400 Arab children are dying every day in Gaza is, frankly, enraging

I have seen videos of anti-Semitic violence over the past week. These videos are exclusively Jewish peace protesters getting harassed by cops in North America, Orthodox Jewish peace protesters getting beaten by Israeli Police in Israel

My heart is ripped in two for my Jewish friends who are saying “not in my name” and being disowned, being called “self-hating Jews”, or— as the Times Of Jerusalem said in an op-ed two days ago: “anti-Zionists who claim to be Jewish are as Jewish as the Westboro Baptist Church that claimed to be Christian”

Jfc just because you’re saying “stop bombing Gaza” doesn’t make you “anti-Zionist”, to begin with

I was bothered by a now ex-friend who told me “how can you call it Gazan genocide when they (the Gazans) procreate so quickly”; fine, first I will block you and never speak to you again, second I will call it something else. What, tho? Israel already doesn’t acknowledge a nakba exists. Anti-war Jews are liberally calling it a holocaust, a shoah; those terms are not allowed to me as a non-Jew.

I feel like one can’t even call it “war” or “a conflict”; Gideon Levy argued that it is neither of these things, that it is a violent occupation, nothing more

Haaretz today reports Netanyahu’s latest speech: “nothing can stop us”.

Anyway, 9000 Gazans dead today, 3 hostages returned, congrats everyone

“anti-Zionists who claim to be Jewish are as Jewish as the Westboro Baptist Church that claimed to be Christian”

I mean ... fwiw, I do think a very not insignificant number of Christians are let's just say in Westboro's ballpark, if not on the same base

"I was bothered by a now ex-friend who told me “how can you call it Gazan genocide when they (the Gazans) procreate so quickly”"

So much hate.

(xp Not the point of the thread, I know, sorry)

"The dissonance in reading about individuals expressing concerns about anti-Semitic violence rising in North America while 400 Arab children are dying every day in Gaza is, frankly, enraging"

posters on this board are worried about their children being bullied at school for being Jewish

Sorry if my posts were emotional or “in the wrong thread” I shouldn’t post when I’m in a news consumption crying spiral, and I shouldn’t read pro-violence NYT articles (or the NYT at all), I am going to call a friend

I agree with everything else in your post, but you can be horrified by the massacre of innocents in Gaza (and the West Bank) while also being worried about anti-semitic violence

Tbh, the biggest “holy shit what are you guys doing” anti-Semitism concern over the past week has been seeing people on social media cheering on “Yemen declares war on Israel” when it’s the Houthis declaring war, not the Yemeni gvmt, and if anybody is cheering for Houthis then we have a big fucking problem

I have been seeing the odd report of AS attacks across Europe now, like this one.

A Moldovan couple arrested for allegedly spray-painting Stars of David on a Paris school last week reportedly told investigators they were acting on orders from an “individual in Russia.”https://t.co/VvJOmmoCAh

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) November 2, 2023

in the larger world, the anti-semitism is probably largely being driven by people who care less about the plight of the Palestinian people and care more about being anti-semitic, and seeing an opportunity for an opening to be a bit more free with their bigotry.

"zionist jews" now trending on twitter, that's that shit i don't like

Caitlyn Jenner's dead name is also trending there today, which says it all

sorry meant to post on the "is this anti-semitism?" thread

I thought this was pretty good:

You are criticizing Israel wrong. Here’s how to do it correctly. pic.twitter.com/DiwBTJOuiG

— Matt Lieb?? (@mattlieb) October 28, 2023

nice to finally see a video of Van Horn Street

in the larger world, the anti-semitism is probably largely being driven by people who care less about the plight of the Palestinian people and care more about being anti-semitic, and seeing an opportunity for an opening to be a bit more free with their bigotry.

― omar little, Thursday, November 2, 2023 12:29 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is upsetting me a lot right now. I know it sounds naïve but I was genuinely surprised at how fast people seized the opportunity to be flat out anti-Semitic. I grew up spending 1/2 the year in a mostly Jewish community in NY where I as a gentile was often the odd one out. 3 of my 5 lifelong close friends are Jewish. I said to one of them yesterday that I think I grew up in this little bubble were I didn't realize how much anti-semitism there still was out there and he was like yeah no shit you're from NY. Anyway - there are a million upsetting things (upsetting isn't anywhere near strong enough) happening right now but I have been thinking a lot about exactly this, OL. :/

it's not good. i have a friend who was indulging in some "deep thoughts" about judaism around the time kanye was on one about jewish people, and i had an instagram convo w/him re: a couple of his posts. i don't know that i reached him, but i tried. another friend (no longer a friend) started to get very alt-right and was an associate of ow3n b3njamin for awhile, a podcast comedian type guy who started to get into some anti-semitic and racist stuff a few years ago. that particular friend is long gone. he was at my wedding. he probably helped hold me up high in my chair during the hora. he just wound up being a particularly "bad actor" in life. and a pernicious influence on others.

i live in a bubble in Los Angeles obv, but shit does happen here. threats against synagogues, anti-semitic graffiti on a famous local deli last night, etc...

the Poetry Foundation shelved a 3500-word review of a poetry book that discusses the book's criticisms of Israel...the poet author of the book is, of course, Jewish, and so is the reviewer.

The donor pocketbook is where artistic freedom hits a wall

This is where stuff like "It would be insensitive to publish this book about Soviet dissidents at this time" leads to.

― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes)

yeah that is obviously ridiculous

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive)

Reflexive censorship of art always seems to crop up when wars begin and wartime propaganda cranks up the red hot rhetoric. Even as recently as the invasion of Ukraine there were ridiculous people calling for cancellation of symphonies by Russian composers as a sign of solidarity with Ukrainians.

O rly

If a HAMAS sympathizer or a HAMAS-adjacent amateur lone wolf carries out a gun attack in the USA killing more than 10 people in the name is Palestine … this poll will flip like a flapjack. https://t.co/NkWdyaliV7

— Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) November 2, 2023

and if my granny had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. I like the specificity of ten or more people, it shows a vigorous imagination.

Reflexive censorship of art always seems to crop up when wars begin and wartime propaganda cranks up the red hot rhetoric. Even as recently as the invasion of Ukraine there were ridiculous people calling for cancellation of symphonies by Russian composers as a sign of solidarity with Ukrainians.

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, November 2, 2023 1:41 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
My kid’s teacher canceled their Russia unit. Like I really don’t think it matters to Ukrainian lives whether our kids are learning about faberge eggs and Baryshnikov

re: that poll.. I'm not really sure that Israel needs much military support anyway... they're a major arms manufacturer/exporter, inventors of the Uzi submachine gun. And they seemed to have no issues selling arms to South Africa's white minority government

and yet the House just approved 14.5 billion in aide to Israel for some reason

$4 billion for the Iron Dome, which kind of seems like locking the gate after the dog gets out.

Wake Forest professor resigns after backlash due to tweet

https://journalnow.com/news/local/wake-professor-resigns-following-backlash-of-social-media-post-on-israeli-hamas-war/article_4e1022a4-78ea-11ee-a828-ffa8e334019a.html

(She’s a really good poet, fwiw!)

14.5 billion in aide to Israel for some reason

er, mm, by long tradition all those billions can only be spent on armaments produced by US-based death merchants military-industrial complex manufacturers.

And lots of defence contracting

Protests are being planned for Armistice Day. Looks like the match will be lit on the tiniest pretence

"They died for your freedom, but don't you dare think about exercising it." https://t.co/xyCICKV35j

— James B (@piercepenniless) November 3, 2023

Clare Hymer
@ClareHymer
HAPPENING NOW: Another peaceful sit-in calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, this time at Kings Cross Station.

the only additional freedoms that came because of GB participation in the world wars was the bankrupting and partial destruction of an evil global empire and the resultant decline arguably sped up the process of decolonisation that followed. "Protect our freedoms" my fucking arsehole, it was a warfare state that forced conscripts onto the battlefield, which is the absolute opposite of freedom.

David Adler
@davidrkadler
New bill in the French 🇫🇷 Senate : 'An insult committed against the State of Israel is punishable by two years of imprisonment and a fine of 75,000 euros.'

I don't even want to paste in what Germany are doing, just utterly disgusting

Belgian transport workers saved the lives of thousands of Jews in the 1940s by unlocking the doors of trains headed for the extermination camps. Now, they're refusing to load weapons onto ships headed to Israel. This is a meaningful & timeless solidarity with humanity. pic.twitter.com/kvcUMcnJd7

— Amro Ali (@_amroali) November 3, 2023

Wokeness run amok

Scoop: Blinken told Israeli war cabinet humanitarian pause will buy Israel time for Gaza operation. My story on @axioshttps://t.co/PkpZ8vrk5H

— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) November 4, 2023

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/08/yechiel-leiter-us-ambassador-israel-netanyahu

Netanyahu appointed a literal Kahanist:

Leiter, who was born in Scranton, Pennsylvania, has been a prominent rightwing thinker in Israel who was chief of staff to Netanyahu when he was finance minister and an aide to the late prime minister Ariel Sharon when he was a member of the Knesset.

According to Israeli media, Leiter has been affiliated with conservative policy centres including the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs and the Kohelet Forum.

Haaretz also reported that he was previously a member of the Jewish Defense League, which was founded by the far-right Rabbi Meir Kahane and was designated a terrorist organisation by the US for a series of attacks and assassinations. It was removed from that list due to inactivity.

grim fucking lol at that last line

https://defector.com/the-media-cant-figure-out-why-some-racist-israeli-soccer-hooligans-were-beaten-up

On Sky's reporting of the incident. Remarkable changes in reporting

2/Even the tweet accompanying the video has changed. It has explicitly shifted from mentioning anti-Arab slogans to removing the phrase "anti-Arab" and using antisemitism. It also removes mention of vandalism by Israeli fans. An extremely clear editorial shift! pic.twitter.com/6i2MXddLLL

— Marc Owen Jones (@marcowenjones) November 9, 2024

The two reports are below. Subtle re-framings.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1855322800220725404.html

What does Trump’s election mean for Israel? And - possibly a separate question - for the Jewish diaspora? I’ve noticed two instant, opposite reactions among Jews I know: 1) Trump is a neo-Nazi and white supremacist therefore this is very bad news for Jews 2) Trump will give Netanyahu an even greener light than Biden, therefore this is very good news for Israel

Those aren’t opposites and both seem likely to be true.

American evangelicals show it is totally possible to be anti-Semitic and pro-Israel

Otm

More likely IIRC!

Maccabi Tel Aviv Hooligan: “The arabs took my pants and hit me on my ass till it was swollen”

💀💀 pic.twitter.com/YmtnEB8XGQ

— Suppressed News. (@SuppressedNws) November 9, 2024

Those aren’t opposites and both seem likely to be true.

What does Trump’s election mean for Israel? And - possibly a separate question - for the Jewish diaspora? I’ve noticed two instant, opposite reactions among Jews I know: 1) Trump is a neo-Nazi and white supremacist therefore this is very bad news for Jews 2) Trump will give Netanyahu an even greener light than Biden, therefore this is very good news for Israel

― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Saturday, November 9, 2024 4:36 PM bookmarkflaglink

I don't think Trump is good news for any humanist or democratic element in any country, including the left or progressives in Israel. Trump is obviously a self-interested criminal and likes to stick together with other autocrats.

Center and left Israelis would probably love to replace Netanyahu and do a peace deal, so for them Trump is not good news at all.

Possibly a relevant context for Israel is to zoom out to the greater area and look at Saudi Arabia and the Iranian Regime. This article from Foreign Affairs by Karim Sadjadpour, "The New Battle for the Middle East: Saudi Arabia and Iran’s Clash of Visions," posits that Saudi Arabia and the Iranian Regime are on a collision course. Therefore possible normalization with Israel or greater recognition or establishment of a Palestinian state, depends to an extent on their internal directions.

https://archive.ph/LBWov#selection-1277.0-1286.0

It provides a US-centered perspective but basically takes the view that these two autocratic powers have colliding visions - Saudi Arabia towards a more secular direction, the Iranian Regime towards resistance and fundamentalism. It also compares their recent history since 1979 in terms of women's rights, human rights, energy, etc.

Trump is so wild and unpredictable (and only more demented than the last time he was President) there might be some direct standdown with IRGC and its proxies. The US Department of Justice has been filing charges against alleged hitmen tied to the IRGC against women's human rights activist Masih Alinejad and Trump himself so the IRGC leaders seem threatened.

As for the diaspora question, that feels like it should go in a different thread, and you'll probably get 3 opinions for every 2 you ask, as the old saying goes.

Tracer Hand, one of the biggest single contributors to Trump’s campaign was Miriam Adelson, widow of casino magnate Sheldon, who is Israeli-American and supports complete annexation of the West Bank and destruction of Gaza. Given this fact alone— she gave the campaign $100 million— it isn’t looking good for Palestinians against the forces of death.

https://www.businessinsider.com/miriam-adelson-sheldon-adelson-net-worth-donald-trump-2024-10

Netanyahu was a frequent visitor of the Kushner family when little Jared was growing up, and he is now full of beans about developing beachfront Gaza property for Israelis and tourists.

Not to mention all the Dominionists/eveangelicals who would prefer all Jewish people to move to Israel to commence Armageddon? How do you think THEY vote?

Center and left Israelis

A dying breed. Trump's even more popular in Israel than he is in the USA!

As always with this, and its been the case from October 8th or pre-/post-US election: Iran, and the Axis of Resistance, are the only ones that can deliver consequences.

Keep protesting and boycotting here. The braver ones will keep attacking bomb factories and blocking ports. But its a limited action.

Twitter is the thing most ILXors are serious about boycotting. Which is a good way to show you don't support Nazis and billionaires.

Good on most ilxors. Very nice.

Not to mention all the Dominionists/eveangelicals who would prefer all Jewish people to move to Israel to commence Armageddon? How do you think THEY vote?

Center and left Israelis would probably love to replace Netanyahu and do a peace deal, so for them Trump is not good news at all.

I'm sure this is true of some israeli leftists, but the opinion polls of the Israeli population I've seen indeed show a lot of dissatisfaction with Bibi but strong support of the war in general - is my info out of date? Has public opinion turned against it? Or are left + centre really such a small percentage of the population?

these two autocratic powers have colliding visions - Saudi Arabia towards a more secular direction

Not going to say this is wrong, have heard some steps being taken in Saudi Arabia regarding women's rights specifically and frankly don't know the context enough to be gung ho about this, but...considering Saudi Arabia has funded islamic extremism around the world, they have a strange way of going about this secularisation?

The Saudis are (literally) allowed to get away with murder because they're the West's big anti-Iran buddies. MBS is a repulsive autocrat in charge of a repulsive regime.

... oh, and oil of course.

From what i know, leftist Israelis are a small minority and repression of government criticism is intense.

Yeah I think we all know Saudi Arabia is a terrible regime that gets away w/ shit because of its US connection, think the essay felicity posted acknowledged that somewhat by calling them autocratic, just curious about this secular claim, obv they could be both.

I can easily believe the Israeli left is small but left + center? Wouldn't the center by definition have to be a lot of ppl?

This is true. My friend in Tel Aviv (a well known DJ) who was helping my other friend in Tulum navigate Israeli media ran down all the channels for her and at one point, they had to nuke someone who was a stringer selling stories to The Sun about the Mexican psytrance hostage my friend was desperate to help. 🤮

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8x5570514o?

"Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has condemned Israel’s actions in Gaza as “genocide” in some of the harshest public criticism of the country by a Saudi official since the start of the war.

Speaking at a summit of Muslim and Arab leaders the prince also criticised Israeli attacks on Lebanon and Iran.

Israel has vehemently denied that its forces are committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.

In a sign of improving ties between rivals Riyadh and Tehran, Prince Mohammed also warned Israel against launching attacks on Iranian soil."

Heartbreaking.jpeg

Incredible how these fascist hooligans are being effectively encouraged and tolerated. Besiktas lose home advantage too lol.

The Europa League game between Turkish side Besiktas and Maccabi Tel Aviv will be held at a neutral venue in Hungary instead of Istanbul as originally scheduled, due to safety concerns.

The game will be played behind closed doors, Hungarian authorities have decided citing the… https://t.co/w1bwYz4Fgv

— Leyla Hamed (@leylahamed) November 12, 2024

Their team are shit anyway so I expect Besiktas will still wallop them.

I know. Besiktas are still being punished.

Yeah I think we all know Saudi Arabia is a terrible regime that gets away w/ shit because of its US connection, think the essay felicity posted acknowledged that somewhat by calling them autocratic, just curious about this secular claim, obv they could be both.

Saudi Arabia being secular in a vacuum or in an absolute sense is not at all what Karim Sadjadpour is claiming. What he calls MBS' vision for Saudi Arabia's is in relation to and directional to what Sadjapour calls the vision of the Iranian regime.

SA is a monarchy with state religion led by MBS; the Iranian Regime is a theocracy led by Khemeni. MBS calls Khemeni the Hitler of the Middle East; Khemeni calls MBS an incompetent criminal.

To be clear, Saudi Arabia is an autocracy that causes many deaths that the US, Canada, and the UK also support with arms sales very heavily if not as much as Israel. That's not a comfort if you are concerned above all with innocent life. However it's part of the context for answering the question "what does Trump's election mean?"

whoops, that should be italics rather than strikethrough

Saudi Arabia being secular in a vacuum or in an absolute sense is not at all what Karim Sadjadpour is claiming. What he calls MBS' vision for Saudi Arabia's is in relation to and directional to what Sadjapour calls the vision of the Iranian regime.

Yeah, I get that - I had taken the idea to be that Saudi Arabia has a vision of moving towards a secular vision for the region as a whole, not that they were planning to become a secular state themselves. And this I find confusing because of their record of financing religious fundamentalism in the region.

Saudi likes financing it elsewhere but not within their own borders. The fact a million Iraqi citizens died when not a single Iraqi was among the 9/11 hijackers should tell you everything. What a fucking stain on those responsible.

Their daughters make great campaign surrogates I hear.

NEW — REPORTER: “Can you get a hostage deal done by the end of your term?”

BIDEN: "Do you think that you can get hit in the head by the camera behind you?” pic.twitter.com/x2fXcW9Mzo

— HOT SPOT (@HotSpotHotSpot) November 12, 2024

woof

The Barbarians are here.

The Ottoman building "Menshieh," located just meters from the UNESCO-listed Roman temples of Baalbek, before and after an Israeli strike destroyed it last week. pic.twitter.com/ZarbmqKXJs

— Nada Maucourant Atallah (@MaucourantNada) November 12, 2024

Disgusting.

Israeli supporters in tonight’s game between France and Israel at Stade de France beat up a French man.

Dozens of masked fans wearing Israeli flags can be seen laying into him, while the crowd boos. A lynching. https://t.co/mwEGSILmEY

— Naks Bilal (@NaksBilal) November 14, 2024

strange how neither of the two articles I read about the match said anything about that

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-government-could-fall-over-handling-amsterdam-violence-media-report-2024-11-15/

The Europa League game that toppled a government

The bravest, the best of what we have here in the murderous Western world.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgmvxgkwg17o

"If you look at what the suffragettes did, they were quite violent, they destroyed property, they put bricks through windows. We look on them as heroes.

"I think people will look back at people who took direct action in this context as heroes in the future."

100%!

i'm raising a (very small) amount of money and am wondering if there are any organizations ya'll would recommend, preferably those lower to the ground, more mutual aid and less large trusted global organization. pcrf is where a lot of locals point funds but just checking to see what you all do

If you're wondering what @JoeMSNBC and @morningmika will find "common ground" with Trump on, Trump's promise to crush the pro-Palestinian movement is identical to their demands the past year. Expect to see them help him out with more of this kind of coverage once it starts. pic.twitter.com/NH5sNdtZvs

— Branko Marcetic (@BMarchetich) November 18, 2024