Israel/Palestine post 10/7 - follow-on events/thoughts as relate to other countries

this whole thing is so devastating.

This is where stuff like "It would be insensitive to publish this book about Soviet dissidents at this time" leads to.

yeah that is obviously ridiculous

An Israeli air strike on the Bureij refugee camp today

https://x.com/ramabdu/status/1720067423238308122

If you use this thread on anything going on in Gaza or Israel.

Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events: Oct 23 on

The dissonance in reading about individuals expressing concerns about anti-Semitic violence rising in North America while 400 Arab children are dying every day in Gaza is, frankly, enraging

I have seen videos of anti-Semitic violence over the past week. These videos are exclusively Jewish peace protesters getting harassed by cops in North America, Orthodox Jewish peace protesters getting beaten by Israeli Police in Israel

My heart is ripped in two for my Jewish friends who are saying “not in my name” and being disowned, being called “self-hating Jews”, or— as the Times Of Jerusalem said in an op-ed two days ago: “anti-Zionists who claim to be Jewish are as Jewish as the Westboro Baptist Church that claimed to be Christian”

Jfc just because you’re saying “stop bombing Gaza” doesn’t make you “anti-Zionist”, to begin with

I was bothered by a now ex-friend who told me “how can you call it Gazan genocide when they (the Gazans) procreate so quickly”; fine, first I will block you and never speak to you again, second I will call it something else. What, tho? Israel already doesn’t acknowledge a nakba exists. Anti-war Jews are liberally calling it a holocaust, a shoah; those terms are not allowed to me as a non-Jew.

I feel like one can’t even call it “war” or “a conflict”; Gideon Levy argued that it is neither of these things, that it is a violent occupation, nothing more

Haaretz today reports Netanyahu’s latest speech: “nothing can stop us”.

Anyway, 9000 Gazans dead today, 3 hostages returned, congrats everyone

“anti-Zionists who claim to be Jewish are as Jewish as the Westboro Baptist Church that claimed to be Christian”

I mean ... fwiw, I do think a very not insignificant number of Christians are let's just say in Westboro's ballpark, if not on the same base

"I was bothered by a now ex-friend who told me “how can you call it Gazan genocide when they (the Gazans) procreate so quickly”"

So much hate.

(xp Not the point of the thread, I know, sorry)

"The dissonance in reading about individuals expressing concerns about anti-Semitic violence rising in North America while 400 Arab children are dying every day in Gaza is, frankly, enraging"

posters on this board are worried about their children being bullied at school for being Jewish

Sorry if my posts were emotional or “in the wrong thread” I shouldn’t post when I’m in a news consumption crying spiral, and I shouldn’t read pro-violence NYT articles (or the NYT at all), I am going to call a friend

I agree with everything else in your post, but you can be horrified by the massacre of innocents in Gaza (and the West Bank) while also being worried about anti-semitic violence

Tbh, the biggest “holy shit what are you guys doing” anti-Semitism concern over the past week has been seeing people on social media cheering on “Yemen declares war on Israel” when it’s the Houthis declaring war, not the Yemeni gvmt, and if anybody is cheering for Houthis then we have a big fucking problem

I have been seeing the odd report of AS attacks across Europe now, like this one.

A Moldovan couple arrested for allegedly spray-painting Stars of David on a Paris school last week reportedly told investigators they were acting on orders from an “individual in Russia.”https://t.co/VvJOmmoCAh

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) November 2, 2023

in the larger world, the anti-semitism is probably largely being driven by people who care less about the plight of the Palestinian people and care more about being anti-semitic, and seeing an opportunity for an opening to be a bit more free with their bigotry.

"zionist jews" now trending on twitter, that's that shit i don't like

Caitlyn Jenner's dead name is also trending there today, which says it all

sorry meant to post on the "is this anti-semitism?" thread

I thought this was pretty good:

You are criticizing Israel wrong. Here’s how to do it correctly. pic.twitter.com/DiwBTJOuiG

— Matt Lieb?? (@mattlieb) October 28, 2023

nice to finally see a video of Van Horn Street

in the larger world, the anti-semitism is probably largely being driven by people who care less about the plight of the Palestinian people and care more about being anti-semitic, and seeing an opportunity for an opening to be a bit more free with their bigotry.

― omar little, Thursday, November 2, 2023 12:29 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is upsetting me a lot right now. I know it sounds naïve but I was genuinely surprised at how fast people seized the opportunity to be flat out anti-Semitic. I grew up spending 1/2 the year in a mostly Jewish community in NY where I as a gentile was often the odd one out. 3 of my 5 lifelong close friends are Jewish. I said to one of them yesterday that I think I grew up in this little bubble were I didn't realize how much anti-semitism there still was out there and he was like yeah no shit you're from NY. Anyway - there are a million upsetting things (upsetting isn't anywhere near strong enough) happening right now but I have been thinking a lot about exactly this, OL. :/

it's not good. i have a friend who was indulging in some "deep thoughts" about judaism around the time kanye was on one about jewish people, and i had an instagram convo w/him re: a couple of his posts. i don't know that i reached him, but i tried. another friend (no longer a friend) started to get very alt-right and was an associate of ow3n b3njamin for awhile, a podcast comedian type guy who started to get into some anti-semitic and racist stuff a few years ago. that particular friend is long gone. he was at my wedding. he probably helped hold me up high in my chair during the hora. he just wound up being a particularly "bad actor" in life. and a pernicious influence on others.

i live in a bubble in Los Angeles obv, but shit does happen here. threats against synagogues, anti-semitic graffiti on a famous local deli last night, etc...

the Poetry Foundation shelved a 3500-word review of a poetry book that discusses the book's criticisms of Israel...the poet author of the book is, of course, Jewish, and so is the reviewer.

The donor pocketbook is where artistic freedom hits a wall

This is where stuff like "It would be insensitive to publish this book about Soviet dissidents at this time" leads to.

― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes)

yeah that is obviously ridiculous

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive)

Reflexive censorship of art always seems to crop up when wars begin and wartime propaganda cranks up the red hot rhetoric. Even as recently as the invasion of Ukraine there were ridiculous people calling for cancellation of symphonies by Russian composers as a sign of solidarity with Ukrainians.

O rly

If a HAMAS sympathizer or a HAMAS-adjacent amateur lone wolf carries out a gun attack in the USA killing more than 10 people in the name is Palestine … this poll will flip like a flapjack. https://t.co/NkWdyaliV7

— Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) November 2, 2023

and if my granny had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. I like the specificity of ten or more people, it shows a vigorous imagination.

Reflexive censorship of art always seems to crop up when wars begin and wartime propaganda cranks up the red hot rhetoric. Even as recently as the invasion of Ukraine there were ridiculous people calling for cancellation of symphonies by Russian composers as a sign of solidarity with Ukrainians.

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, November 2, 2023 1:41 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
My kid’s teacher canceled their Russia unit. Like I really don’t think it matters to Ukrainian lives whether our kids are learning about faberge eggs and Baryshnikov

re: that poll.. I'm not really sure that Israel needs much military support anyway... they're a major arms manufacturer/exporter, inventors of the Uzi submachine gun. And they seemed to have no issues selling arms to South Africa's white minority government

and yet the House just approved 14.5 billion in aide to Israel for some reason

$4 billion for the Iron Dome, which kind of seems like locking the gate after the dog gets out.

Wake Forest professor resigns after backlash due to tweet

https://journalnow.com/news/local/wake-professor-resigns-following-backlash-of-social-media-post-on-israeli-hamas-war/article_4e1022a4-78ea-11ee-a828-ffa8e334019a.html

(She’s a really good poet, fwiw!)

14.5 billion in aide to Israel for some reason

er, mm, by long tradition all those billions can only be spent on armaments produced by US-based death merchants military-industrial complex manufacturers.

And lots of defence contracting

Protests are being planned for Armistice Day. Looks like the match will be lit on the tiniest pretence

"They died for your freedom, but don't you dare think about exercising it." https://t.co/xyCICKV35j

— James B (@piercepenniless) November 3, 2023

Clare Hymer
@ClareHymer
HAPPENING NOW: Another peaceful sit-in calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, this time at Kings Cross Station.

the only additional freedoms that came because of GB participation in the world wars was the bankrupting and partial destruction of an evil global empire and the resultant decline arguably sped up the process of decolonisation that followed. "Protect our freedoms" my fucking arsehole, it was a warfare state that forced conscripts onto the battlefield, which is the absolute opposite of freedom.

David Adler
@davidrkadler
New bill in the French 🇫🇷 Senate : 'An insult committed against the State of Israel is punishable by two years of imprisonment and a fine of 75,000 euros.'

I don't even want to paste in what Germany are doing, just utterly disgusting

Belgian transport workers saved the lives of thousands of Jews in the 1940s by unlocking the doors of trains headed for the extermination camps. Now, they're refusing to load weapons onto ships headed to Israel. This is a meaningful & timeless solidarity with humanity. pic.twitter.com/kvcUMcnJd7

— Amro Ali (@_amroali) November 3, 2023

Wokeness run amok

Scoop: Blinken told Israeli war cabinet humanitarian pause will buy Israel time for Gaza operation. My story on @axioshttps://t.co/PkpZ8vrk5H

— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) November 4, 2023

Sorry, I blocked the Nazi social media website but it seems as if somebody is accusing Biden in being “complicit” in Palestinian massacre? What a concept

Quite an interesting set of remarks by this father (terrible headline), on his daughter's who have torn up those Israeli hostage fliers.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/03/news/father-of-aya-and-dana-bakaret-who-tore-israeli-posters-insists-they-are-good-girls/

“What happened in Manhattan with my daughters, I believe them. The lady provoke them, stole from their hand a picture of the baby and told her ‘this is going to keep happening to you as long as you support these people.’”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/media/2023/11/04/nyt-jazmine-hughes-resigns/

Central London blocked. Charing Cross station occupied.

---

Georgie Robertson
@_GeorgieBlaise
·
2h
🚨 HAPPENING NOW: huge sit in at Charring Cross station. Police have closed every entrance so hundreds more outside can’t join us. #CeasefireForGazaNOW #FreePalestine

The New York Times
@nytimes
Jazmine Hughes, an award-winning New York Times Magazine staff writer, resigned from the publication on Friday after she signed a letter that voiced support for Palestinians and protested Israel’s siege in Gaza.

These new twitter links are hella annoying

And just to be clear, man alive's posts are not the ones I am referring to.

“what if the Palestinians were self-reliant” motherfuck this racist motherfucker, the Palestinian people have survived numerous ethnic cleansing campaigns and genuine apartheid and this asshole has the temerity to tweet such garbage

hard to be self-reliant when insane 20- year old IDF soldiers can break into your house and terrorize your family for no fucking reason at anytime. like why are we even talking about this bullshit point

And tbc I wasn't defending the Haviv Rettig-Gur tweet, which I'm not even sure I entirely understand. But I was disagreeing with Eephus and therefore I guess agreeing with the first part of the tweet.

My partial understanding is that the demographics don’t support this, which I’ve seen discussed as “If everyone lived in one nation then Israeli Jews would cease being the majority”, which then directs back to a two state solution but then there’s the issue of non contiguous nationhood etc. Honestly I have no idea what a workable practical solution would be, but whatever it might be it’ll make the former Yugoslavia look functional.
― Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Wednesday, May 29, 2024 1:23 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I know there are some proposals for a "federation" and the like. Like one state made up of two sub-states. Reparations in lieu of right of return, and/or some limited right of return. I don't think everything necessarily needs to be treated as a single unbroken state so long as Palestinians have self determination and equal representation in joint governance issues. The modern western nation state is only one model, and a fairly young one. I'd like to read more about these proposals as well.

Yeah that’s quite similar to the way Bosnia is divided between Republika Srpks and the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. My understanding from a friend who lives in one part is that it’s insanely segregated, her example was that she couldn’t catch a train directly between two parts (!). I think my main concern for functioning in such a state might be both under and overestimated: how do you live together in peace after that? Yet we do have examples of people doing so, albeit to varying degrees of happiness. In the end, nobody wants to live like this. It’s just what people are prepared to give up.

I agree with ivy. There are not two symmetrical sides to this conflict and anything suggesting otherwise is gaslighting.

― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Wednesday, May 29, 2024 11:15 AM bookmarkflaglink

Yea, sorry, not trying to suggest there is a symmetry or gaslight anyone. Clearly I have been tactless and I apologize.

BiH still has problems but you can travel between the two parts easily by a pretty comprehensive intercity bus network. The rail system is practically non-existent anywhere in the country.

Yeah I did wonder when I was posting that how true that was. It’s a beautiful country but the little I saw when I visited made it very clear exactly how fucked things are not too far below the surface.

you can just publish this sort of thing in a mainstream magazine i guess - https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/live-law-die-cross-israel

We need to look for standards from within our tradition to set a moral example for the whole world, while making it more practically possible to defend our homeland.

Instead of bragging about the extra danger our soldiers experience for the sake of sparing enemy noncombatants, we should reject the premise that we Jews bear any responsibility for protecting the human shields employed by our enemy.

Instead of threatening Jews with arrest for praying on the Temple Mount, we should take a hint from the “Al-Aqsa” moniker our attackers gave to their day of savage invasion and let Cohens up there on the hill to slaughter lambs for Passover.

And above all—given that land is nearly all that matters to this death-worshipping foe—instead of repeatedly withdrawing troops from areas we have just taken over so we can deny having unchristian territorial ambitions, we should conquer, annex, and resettle parts of Gaza so that Jews and friendly gentiles both can live there safely.

What was that about psychotic Americans settling in Israel?

What in the brain rot did I just read

TBF, Tablet is only "mainstream" in that it's a website people who are online a lot have usually heard of. It posts extremely weird takes all the time.

Tablet is hardly mainstream

mea culpa, i am probably too online

yeah according to one of those web traffic tracking sites, it has 1/12th the visitors of Pitchfork

And probably three times the staff

And just to be clear, man alive's posts are not the ones I am referring to.

― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR)

yes, cosign

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/adjunct-professor-fired-depaul-assignment-war-in-gaza-public-health/

that tablet article strikes me as one of the most antisemitic things ever but maybe I just read it that way because I was raised a granola catholic who thinks dimly of vengeance.

It certainly makes Christianity seem like one of the greatest things ever.

From UK pol but this backroom fixer who lobbies for continued relationship with Israel has been fast tracked to become an MP at our general election taking place in a few weeks. He pushes appalling conspiracies like this.

Labour candidate for North Durham Luke Akehurst spread Alex Jones-style conspiracy about Gaza, claiming that Palestinian crisis actors staged videos of IDF atrocities. pic.twitter.com/h2bRdpqryx

— Karl Hansen (@karl_fh) May 30, 2024

Whatever party wins next month it is certain that hostility toward Palestine from the British government is to continue.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/30/two-more-us-officials-resign-over-biden-administrations-position-on-gaza-war

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7lEDW5OjXE/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Just saw this shared on instagram, by my former college acquaintance who has some affiliation with reality israel, which is a group I believe this activist is part of, perhaps even a founder. I also believe she was someone who was strongly pushing the narrative that academia in the United States was infiltrated with rampant anti-semitism, and she might have even been somewhat adjacently involved with the Congressional embarrassments in recent months.

I really don't have any comments on this beyond that, just seemed like the right thread for it.

why bring pro-genocide bullshit here?

“here’s some pro-Israel talking points justifying mass murder, also I know this lady” like wtf

Something so grim about what I term Hasbara Honeys with balayage, immaculate make-up and enunciation straight out of a flight safety video.

"Turns out it's all their fault, not ours."

if you read carefully you'd see that I don't actually know this person at all, this dumbass I went to school with perhaps knows her and shared it, and obviously others have posted content from the pro-israeli side to shine a light on the type of bs being pushed. I don't know what you think my post was intended to convey other than disgust but allow me to say that type of content is disgusting but important to see.

And please I ask you, don't put words in my mouth, or imply something completely untrue about my motives.

Omar you’ve posted a lot about your family, your fears and your perspective over these threads. I thought you were showing it not to spread it in and of itself, but because seeing someone you know irl pushing this kind of content is really shocking. It’s hard to know what to say about radicalisation or how to combat it. I was reading an article a good while back about people with Qanon parents and it honestly was horrifying reading about these people trying to reason with their parents who lived in a different reality.

That's true, gyac, I don't really feel anything more than appalled by seeing that. it's sort of this helpless feeling seeing it, the complicated justifications which can be summed up as "this massacre was a good thing and here's why."

I'm irrationally annoyed by that lady's hypercorrect pronunciation of "Hamas" (it's spelled with a ح not a خ)

On further investigation, it appears that mispronouncing "Hamas" is just a normal thing that Israelis do? (I'll try not to read too much into that.) Didn't mean for that to be a cheap shot, I just find it genuinely annoying, in the same way that Anglo Americans saying "habañero" is annoying.

Sa-damm Hussein

Former president of Eye-Rack

The Former Guy

The book jacket for "A Problem From Hell" says:

"Samantha Power poses a question that haunts our nation's past: Why do American leaders who vow 'never again' repeatedly fail to marshal the will and the might to stop genocide?"

Right now she's firing people for reports on Gaza. pic.twitter.com/QWVJSjgZqk

— ☀️ Jon Schwarz ☀️ (@schwarz) May 30, 2024

People grow and change

Sorry for jumping down your throat omar.

I personally don’t feel the need to see that kind of hasbara stuff, because there’s so much of it to go around. That’s just me tho, and I understand why you brought it in. I was so repulsed I overreacted.

It's okay, I mean I have not seen a whole lot of that stuff because I've been studiously avoiding much of the discourse for my own sanity, that one just showed up right in my feed this morning and it was immediately appalling to me. The tone of the couple other ones I've seen are all so similar, these slick influencer vids designed for the fog of war.