Israel/Palestine post 10/7 - follow-on events/thoughts as relate to other countries

yeah that is obviously ridiculous

An Israeli air strike on the Bureij refugee camp today

https://x.com/ramabdu/status/1720067423238308122

If you use this thread on anything going on in Gaza or Israel.

Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events: Oct 23 on

The dissonance in reading about individuals expressing concerns about anti-Semitic violence rising in North America while 400 Arab children are dying every day in Gaza is, frankly, enraging

I have seen videos of anti-Semitic violence over the past week. These videos are exclusively Jewish peace protesters getting harassed by cops in North America, Orthodox Jewish peace protesters getting beaten by Israeli Police in Israel

My heart is ripped in two for my Jewish friends who are saying “not in my name” and being disowned, being called “self-hating Jews”, or— as the Times Of Jerusalem said in an op-ed two days ago: “anti-Zionists who claim to be Jewish are as Jewish as the Westboro Baptist Church that claimed to be Christian”

Jfc just because you’re saying “stop bombing Gaza” doesn’t make you “anti-Zionist”, to begin with

I was bothered by a now ex-friend who told me “how can you call it Gazan genocide when they (the Gazans) procreate so quickly”; fine, first I will block you and never speak to you again, second I will call it something else. What, tho? Israel already doesn’t acknowledge a nakba exists. Anti-war Jews are liberally calling it a holocaust, a shoah; those terms are not allowed to me as a non-Jew.

I feel like one can’t even call it “war” or “a conflict”; Gideon Levy argued that it is neither of these things, that it is a violent occupation, nothing more

Haaretz today reports Netanyahu’s latest speech: “nothing can stop us”.

Anyway, 9000 Gazans dead today, 3 hostages returned, congrats everyone

“anti-Zionists who claim to be Jewish are as Jewish as the Westboro Baptist Church that claimed to be Christian”

I mean ... fwiw, I do think a very not insignificant number of Christians are let's just say in Westboro's ballpark, if not on the same base

"I was bothered by a now ex-friend who told me “how can you call it Gazan genocide when they (the Gazans) procreate so quickly”"

So much hate.

(xp Not the point of the thread, I know, sorry)

"The dissonance in reading about individuals expressing concerns about anti-Semitic violence rising in North America while 400 Arab children are dying every day in Gaza is, frankly, enraging"

posters on this board are worried about their children being bullied at school for being Jewish

Sorry if my posts were emotional or “in the wrong thread” I shouldn’t post when I’m in a news consumption crying spiral, and I shouldn’t read pro-violence NYT articles (or the NYT at all), I am going to call a friend

I agree with everything else in your post, but you can be horrified by the massacre of innocents in Gaza (and the West Bank) while also being worried about anti-semitic violence

Tbh, the biggest “holy shit what are you guys doing” anti-Semitism concern over the past week has been seeing people on social media cheering on “Yemen declares war on Israel” when it’s the Houthis declaring war, not the Yemeni gvmt, and if anybody is cheering for Houthis then we have a big fucking problem

I have been seeing the odd report of AS attacks across Europe now, like this one.

A Moldovan couple arrested for allegedly spray-painting Stars of David on a Paris school last week reportedly told investigators they were acting on orders from an “individual in Russia.”https://t.co/VvJOmmoCAh

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) November 2, 2023

in the larger world, the anti-semitism is probably largely being driven by people who care less about the plight of the Palestinian people and care more about being anti-semitic, and seeing an opportunity for an opening to be a bit more free with their bigotry.

"zionist jews" now trending on twitter, that's that shit i don't like

Caitlyn Jenner's dead name is also trending there today, which says it all

sorry meant to post on the "is this anti-semitism?" thread

I thought this was pretty good:

You are criticizing Israel wrong. Here’s how to do it correctly. pic.twitter.com/DiwBTJOuiG

— Matt Lieb?? (@mattlieb) October 28, 2023

nice to finally see a video of Van Horn Street

in the larger world, the anti-semitism is probably largely being driven by people who care less about the plight of the Palestinian people and care more about being anti-semitic, and seeing an opportunity for an opening to be a bit more free with their bigotry.

― omar little, Thursday, November 2, 2023 12:29 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is upsetting me a lot right now. I know it sounds naïve but I was genuinely surprised at how fast people seized the opportunity to be flat out anti-Semitic. I grew up spending 1/2 the year in a mostly Jewish community in NY where I as a gentile was often the odd one out. 3 of my 5 lifelong close friends are Jewish. I said to one of them yesterday that I think I grew up in this little bubble were I didn't realize how much anti-semitism there still was out there and he was like yeah no shit you're from NY. Anyway - there are a million upsetting things (upsetting isn't anywhere near strong enough) happening right now but I have been thinking a lot about exactly this, OL. :/

it's not good. i have a friend who was indulging in some "deep thoughts" about judaism around the time kanye was on one about jewish people, and i had an instagram convo w/him re: a couple of his posts. i don't know that i reached him, but i tried. another friend (no longer a friend) started to get very alt-right and was an associate of ow3n b3njamin for awhile, a podcast comedian type guy who started to get into some anti-semitic and racist stuff a few years ago. that particular friend is long gone. he was at my wedding. he probably helped hold me up high in my chair during the hora. he just wound up being a particularly "bad actor" in life. and a pernicious influence on others.

i live in a bubble in Los Angeles obv, but shit does happen here. threats against synagogues, anti-semitic graffiti on a famous local deli last night, etc...

the Poetry Foundation shelved a 3500-word review of a poetry book that discusses the book's criticisms of Israel...the poet author of the book is, of course, Jewish, and so is the reviewer.

The donor pocketbook is where artistic freedom hits a wall

This is where stuff like "It would be insensitive to publish this book about Soviet dissidents at this time" leads to.

― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes)

yeah that is obviously ridiculous

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive)

Reflexive censorship of art always seems to crop up when wars begin and wartime propaganda cranks up the red hot rhetoric. Even as recently as the invasion of Ukraine there were ridiculous people calling for cancellation of symphonies by Russian composers as a sign of solidarity with Ukrainians.

O rly

If a HAMAS sympathizer or a HAMAS-adjacent amateur lone wolf carries out a gun attack in the USA killing more than 10 people in the name is Palestine … this poll will flip like a flapjack. https://t.co/NkWdyaliV7

— Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) November 2, 2023

and if my granny had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. I like the specificity of ten or more people, it shows a vigorous imagination.

Reflexive censorship of art always seems to crop up when wars begin and wartime propaganda cranks up the red hot rhetoric. Even as recently as the invasion of Ukraine there were ridiculous people calling for cancellation of symphonies by Russian composers as a sign of solidarity with Ukrainians.

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, November 2, 2023 1:41 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
My kid’s teacher canceled their Russia unit. Like I really don’t think it matters to Ukrainian lives whether our kids are learning about faberge eggs and Baryshnikov

re: that poll.. I'm not really sure that Israel needs much military support anyway... they're a major arms manufacturer/exporter, inventors of the Uzi submachine gun. And they seemed to have no issues selling arms to South Africa's white minority government

and yet the House just approved 14.5 billion in aide to Israel for some reason

$4 billion for the Iron Dome, which kind of seems like locking the gate after the dog gets out.

Wake Forest professor resigns after backlash due to tweet

https://journalnow.com/news/local/wake-professor-resigns-following-backlash-of-social-media-post-on-israeli-hamas-war/article_4e1022a4-78ea-11ee-a828-ffa8e334019a.html

(She’s a really good poet, fwiw!)

14.5 billion in aide to Israel for some reason

er, mm, by long tradition all those billions can only be spent on armaments produced by US-based death merchants military-industrial complex manufacturers.

And lots of defence contracting

Protests are being planned for Armistice Day. Looks like the match will be lit on the tiniest pretence

"They died for your freedom, but don't you dare think about exercising it." https://t.co/xyCICKV35j

— James B (@piercepenniless) November 3, 2023

Clare Hymer
@ClareHymer
HAPPENING NOW: Another peaceful sit-in calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, this time at Kings Cross Station.

the only additional freedoms that came because of GB participation in the world wars was the bankrupting and partial destruction of an evil global empire and the resultant decline arguably sped up the process of decolonisation that followed. "Protect our freedoms" my fucking arsehole, it was a warfare state that forced conscripts onto the battlefield, which is the absolute opposite of freedom.

David Adler
@davidrkadler
New bill in the French 🇫🇷 Senate : 'An insult committed against the State of Israel is punishable by two years of imprisonment and a fine of 75,000 euros.'

I don't even want to paste in what Germany are doing, just utterly disgusting

Belgian transport workers saved the lives of thousands of Jews in the 1940s by unlocking the doors of trains headed for the extermination camps. Now, they're refusing to load weapons onto ships headed to Israel. This is a meaningful & timeless solidarity with humanity. pic.twitter.com/kvcUMcnJd7

— Amro Ali (@_amroali) November 3, 2023

Wokeness run amok

Scoop: Blinken told Israeli war cabinet humanitarian pause will buy Israel time for Gaza operation. My story on @axioshttps://t.co/PkpZ8vrk5H

— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) November 4, 2023

Sorry, I blocked the Nazi social media website but it seems as if somebody is accusing Biden in being “complicit” in Palestinian massacre? What a concept

Quite an interesting set of remarks by this father (terrible headline), on his daughter's who have torn up those Israeli hostage fliers.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/03/news/father-of-aya-and-dana-bakaret-who-tore-israeli-posters-insists-they-are-good-girls/

“What happened in Manhattan with my daughters, I believe them. The lady provoke them, stole from their hand a picture of the baby and told her ‘this is going to keep happening to you as long as you support these people.’”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/media/2023/11/04/nyt-jazmine-hughes-resigns/

Central London blocked. Charing Cross station occupied.

---

Georgie Robertson
@_GeorgieBlaise
·
2h
🚨 HAPPENING NOW: huge sit in at Charring Cross station. Police have closed every entrance so hundreds more outside can’t join us. #CeasefireForGazaNOW #FreePalestine

The New York Times
@nytimes
Jazmine Hughes, an award-winning New York Times Magazine staff writer, resigned from the publication on Friday after she signed a letter that voiced support for Palestinians and protested Israel’s siege in Gaza.

These new twitter links are hella annoying

psa for all you can paste x links into ilx and then just erase the x in the url and type in twitter and the tweet will embed like the old days

There are issues with tweets embeds as outlined here.

Is this anti-semitism?

It certainly makes Christianity seem like one of the greatest things ever.

From UK pol but this backroom fixer who lobbies for continued relationship with Israel has been fast tracked to become an MP at our general election taking place in a few weeks. He pushes appalling conspiracies like this.

Labour candidate for North Durham Luke Akehurst spread Alex Jones-style conspiracy about Gaza, claiming that Palestinian crisis actors staged videos of IDF atrocities. pic.twitter.com/h2bRdpqryx

— Karl Hansen (@karl_fh) May 30, 2024

Whatever party wins next month it is certain that hostility toward Palestine from the British government is to continue.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/30/two-more-us-officials-resign-over-biden-administrations-position-on-gaza-war

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7lEDW5OjXE/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Just saw this shared on instagram, by my former college acquaintance who has some affiliation with reality israel, which is a group I believe this activist is part of, perhaps even a founder. I also believe she was someone who was strongly pushing the narrative that academia in the United States was infiltrated with rampant anti-semitism, and she might have even been somewhat adjacently involved with the Congressional embarrassments in recent months.

I really don't have any comments on this beyond that, just seemed like the right thread for it.

why bring pro-genocide bullshit here?

“here’s some pro-Israel talking points justifying mass murder, also I know this lady” like wtf

Something so grim about what I term Hasbara Honeys with balayage, immaculate make-up and enunciation straight out of a flight safety video.

"Turns out it's all their fault, not ours."

if you read carefully you'd see that I don't actually know this person at all, this dumbass I went to school with perhaps knows her and shared it, and obviously others have posted content from the pro-israeli side to shine a light on the type of bs being pushed. I don't know what you think my post was intended to convey other than disgust but allow me to say that type of content is disgusting but important to see.

And please I ask you, don't put words in my mouth, or imply something completely untrue about my motives.

Omar you’ve posted a lot about your family, your fears and your perspective over these threads. I thought you were showing it not to spread it in and of itself, but because seeing someone you know irl pushing this kind of content is really shocking. It’s hard to know what to say about radicalisation or how to combat it. I was reading an article a good while back about people with Qanon parents and it honestly was horrifying reading about these people trying to reason with their parents who lived in a different reality.

That's true, gyac, I don't really feel anything more than appalled by seeing that. it's sort of this helpless feeling seeing it, the complicated justifications which can be summed up as "this massacre was a good thing and here's why."

I'm irrationally annoyed by that lady's hypercorrect pronunciation of "Hamas" (it's spelled with a ح not a خ)

On further investigation, it appears that mispronouncing "Hamas" is just a normal thing that Israelis do? (I'll try not to read too much into that.) Didn't mean for that to be a cheap shot, I just find it genuinely annoying, in the same way that Anglo Americans saying "habañero" is annoying.

Sa-damm Hussein

Former president of Eye-Rack

The Former Guy

The book jacket for "A Problem From Hell" says:

"Samantha Power poses a question that haunts our nation's past: Why do American leaders who vow 'never again' repeatedly fail to marshal the will and the might to stop genocide?"

Right now she's firing people for reports on Gaza. pic.twitter.com/QWVJSjgZqk

— ☀️ Jon Schwarz ☀️ (@schwarz) May 30, 2024

People grow and change

Sorry for jumping down your throat omar.

I personally don’t feel the need to see that kind of hasbara stuff, because there’s so much of it to go around. That’s just me tho, and I understand why you brought it in. I was so repulsed I overreacted.

It's okay, I mean I have not seen a whole lot of that stuff because I've been studiously avoiding much of the discourse for my own sanity, that one just showed up right in my feed this morning and it was immediately appalling to me. The tone of the couple other ones I've seen are all so similar, these slick influencer vids designed for the fog of war.

This action was in Vancouver on Friday, when we blocked trains for over three hours all the way into Seattle.

For those inconvenienced by actions to end genocide, fight to end genocide.

Because our resolve is stronger. From Salish Sea to Palestine, may all people live free. https://t.co/R0H2MIk182

— Harsha Walia (@HarshaWalia) June 2, 2024

Harsha is the best.

It's interesting to note that @BBCNews regards the murder of seven people in the Ukraine to be a bloodbath... But 45 Palestinians dead in Rafah is dismissed as a "limited operation" pic.twitter.com/KvhyFN1Pdx

— William Dalrymple (@DalrympleWill) May 28, 2024

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7zB-KANAae/?igsh=aTFqdjl6eXVhbjh1

Wtf happened to Piers Morgan?

He likes to do a turn every now and then to show he's "open minded". He'll doubtless be back to right wing talking points soon enough but for the moment I'll take it.

Israel Secretly Targets U.S. Lawmakers With Influence Campaign on Gaza War

My friend went to the funeral for ‘our’ hostage yesterday. Orión was a dual national so both nations’ embassies sent floral tributes, but not a single blossom or acknowledgement from the Israelis.

that’s awful, suzy.

regarding my previous article post, safe to say that if almost any other country did what Israel did, it would be a huge scandal.

There’s so much I want to say about what happened and how various state actors behaved between 7 October and today, but a) some of the incidents were very odd indeed b) the families have been put through the wringer and c) I am peripheral to this so feel it would not be my place to speak (apart from the things I have said).

Wtf happened to Piers Morgan?

Yeah, he's been pretty outspoken about this. (I saw something where he compares Netanyahu's actions and reasoning unfavorably to the way the UK handled the IRA.) I've only caught clips of him that get reported on or go viral - never watched his show - but he's like Bill Maher where he's just really outspoken about personal opinions that range all over the place from good to terrible and he knows how to leverage his platforms so that everyone knows about them. So yeah, wait a while and I'm sure he'll do something shitty again, etc.

BREAKING: Spain has said it will join South Africa’s case before the ICJ accusing Israel of genocide in the Gaza Strip https://t.co/YMNXYWyafJ pic.twitter.com/I1KRvqxzcY

— Al Jazeera English (@AJEnglish) June 6, 2024

nobody expects the spanish…

sorry

Interesting argument that anti-Palestinian racism is a linked but separate phenomenon from Islamophobia, and that it must be addressed differently as a result.

https://www.vox.com/policy/352663/anti-palestinian-racism-islamophobia-antisemitism

Sorry if link has already been posted here. Really thorough piece in the LRB from a month ago. It starts on the Hamas rape allegations, but it goes on to cover a lot of the ground we have here, plus a lot of the discourse, with detours into the history of sexual violence in the conflict and others throughout the world.

www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n09/azadeh-moaveni/what-they-did-to-our-women

BREAKING

UN investigation concludes that Israel is committing the crime of EXTERMINATION in Gaza.

The truth is out.pic.twitter.com/oVDMFfL4y4

— sarah (@sahouraxo) June 12, 2024

Good to see.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/article/2024/jun/14/barclays-suspends-sponsorship-from-download-latitude-and-isle-of-wight-festivals

she couldn’t catch a train directly between two parts (!). I think my main concern for functioning in such a state might be both under and overestimated: how do you live together in peace after that?

I realized later your friend might have been referring to the fact city buses don't go to Lukavica or Istocno, but turn around just before so you have to walk the last 15 minutes if you want the "other" bus station for Podgorica or Belgrade.

With the wider point about segregation, its difficult to answer. The segregation is between 3 groups not 2, and while it is very pronounced its not absolute. There are mixed towns with different sides like Mostar, but then other towns that are intermingled but have things like the "two schools under one roof" system, where Bosniak kids and Croatian kids are taught in the same building but under different systems due to the "different languages". But this isn't necessarily popular with people and is a lot to do with unintended consequences of Dayton rather than the conflict itself, which incentivised and entrenched corruption by the way it organised power along ethnic lines (Jews, Albanians, and others are barred from various forms of office)

The HDZ has long been upset with Komsic because although he is Croatian he has popularity with non-Croatians as well as Croatians, which makes him insufficiently nationalist for the HDZ, which is an example of how the major parties are anti-integrationist for pragmatic/cynical reasons, so there's a top down element to all this.

The current situation is very safe, low levels of crime and violence but high corruption, and high emigration, as the country is gridlocked by the consequences of Dayton itself (although I'm not saying it was wrong per se given the circumstances at the time).

As to what lies below the surface, I don't know. Its worth pointing out that up to a third of all marriages were mixed in the 1960-1980s and yet what happened still happened. Thats a topic all of its own, but I wanted to say that the solution to the conflict is itself has had a lot of unforeseen consequences (or foreseen but viewed as acceptable tradeoff)