Israel/Palestine post 10/7 - follow-on events/thoughts as relate to other countries

"The dissonance in reading about individuals expressing concerns about anti-Semitic violence rising in North America while 400 Arab children are dying every day in Gaza is, frankly, enraging"

posters on this board are worried about their children being bullied at school for being Jewish

Sorry if my posts were emotional or “in the wrong thread” I shouldn’t post when I’m in a news consumption crying spiral, and I shouldn’t read pro-violence NYT articles (or the NYT at all), I am going to call a friend

I agree with everything else in your post, but you can be horrified by the massacre of innocents in Gaza (and the West Bank) while also being worried about anti-semitic violence

Tbh, the biggest “holy shit what are you guys doing” anti-Semitism concern over the past week has been seeing people on social media cheering on “Yemen declares war on Israel” when it’s the Houthis declaring war, not the Yemeni gvmt, and if anybody is cheering for Houthis then we have a big fucking problem

I have been seeing the odd report of AS attacks across Europe now, like this one.

A Moldovan couple arrested for allegedly spray-painting Stars of David on a Paris school last week reportedly told investigators they were acting on orders from an “individual in Russia.”https://t.co/VvJOmmoCAh

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) November 2, 2023

in the larger world, the anti-semitism is probably largely being driven by people who care less about the plight of the Palestinian people and care more about being anti-semitic, and seeing an opportunity for an opening to be a bit more free with their bigotry.

"zionist jews" now trending on twitter, that's that shit i don't like

Caitlyn Jenner's dead name is also trending there today, which says it all

sorry meant to post on the "is this anti-semitism?" thread

I thought this was pretty good:

You are criticizing Israel wrong. Here’s how to do it correctly. pic.twitter.com/DiwBTJOuiG

— Matt Lieb?? (@mattlieb) October 28, 2023

nice to finally see a video of Van Horn Street

in the larger world, the anti-semitism is probably largely being driven by people who care less about the plight of the Palestinian people and care more about being anti-semitic, and seeing an opportunity for an opening to be a bit more free with their bigotry.

― omar little, Thursday, November 2, 2023 12:29 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is upsetting me a lot right now. I know it sounds naïve but I was genuinely surprised at how fast people seized the opportunity to be flat out anti-Semitic. I grew up spending 1/2 the year in a mostly Jewish community in NY where I as a gentile was often the odd one out. 3 of my 5 lifelong close friends are Jewish. I said to one of them yesterday that I think I grew up in this little bubble were I didn't realize how much anti-semitism there still was out there and he was like yeah no shit you're from NY. Anyway - there are a million upsetting things (upsetting isn't anywhere near strong enough) happening right now but I have been thinking a lot about exactly this, OL. :/

it's not good. i have a friend who was indulging in some "deep thoughts" about judaism around the time kanye was on one about jewish people, and i had an instagram convo w/him re: a couple of his posts. i don't know that i reached him, but i tried. another friend (no longer a friend) started to get very alt-right and was an associate of ow3n b3njamin for awhile, a podcast comedian type guy who started to get into some anti-semitic and racist stuff a few years ago. that particular friend is long gone. he was at my wedding. he probably helped hold me up high in my chair during the hora. he just wound up being a particularly "bad actor" in life. and a pernicious influence on others.

i live in a bubble in Los Angeles obv, but shit does happen here. threats against synagogues, anti-semitic graffiti on a famous local deli last night, etc...

the Poetry Foundation shelved a 3500-word review of a poetry book that discusses the book's criticisms of Israel...the poet author of the book is, of course, Jewish, and so is the reviewer.

The donor pocketbook is where artistic freedom hits a wall

This is where stuff like "It would be insensitive to publish this book about Soviet dissidents at this time" leads to.

― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes)

yeah that is obviously ridiculous

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive)

Reflexive censorship of art always seems to crop up when wars begin and wartime propaganda cranks up the red hot rhetoric. Even as recently as the invasion of Ukraine there were ridiculous people calling for cancellation of symphonies by Russian composers as a sign of solidarity with Ukrainians.

O rly

If a HAMAS sympathizer or a HAMAS-adjacent amateur lone wolf carries out a gun attack in the USA killing more than 10 people in the name is Palestine … this poll will flip like a flapjack. https://t.co/NkWdyaliV7

— Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) November 2, 2023

and if my granny had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. I like the specificity of ten or more people, it shows a vigorous imagination.

Reflexive censorship of art always seems to crop up when wars begin and wartime propaganda cranks up the red hot rhetoric. Even as recently as the invasion of Ukraine there were ridiculous people calling for cancellation of symphonies by Russian composers as a sign of solidarity with Ukrainians.

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, November 2, 2023 1:41 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
My kid’s teacher canceled their Russia unit. Like I really don’t think it matters to Ukrainian lives whether our kids are learning about faberge eggs and Baryshnikov

re: that poll.. I'm not really sure that Israel needs much military support anyway... they're a major arms manufacturer/exporter, inventors of the Uzi submachine gun. And they seemed to have no issues selling arms to South Africa's white minority government

and yet the House just approved 14.5 billion in aide to Israel for some reason

$4 billion for the Iron Dome, which kind of seems like locking the gate after the dog gets out.

Wake Forest professor resigns after backlash due to tweet

https://journalnow.com/news/local/wake-professor-resigns-following-backlash-of-social-media-post-on-israeli-hamas-war/article_4e1022a4-78ea-11ee-a828-ffa8e334019a.html

(She’s a really good poet, fwiw!)

14.5 billion in aide to Israel for some reason

er, mm, by long tradition all those billions can only be spent on armaments produced by US-based death merchants military-industrial complex manufacturers.

And lots of defence contracting

Protests are being planned for Armistice Day. Looks like the match will be lit on the tiniest pretence

"They died for your freedom, but don't you dare think about exercising it." https://t.co/xyCICKV35j

— James B (@piercepenniless) November 3, 2023

Clare Hymer
@ClareHymer
HAPPENING NOW: Another peaceful sit-in calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, this time at Kings Cross Station.

the only additional freedoms that came because of GB participation in the world wars was the bankrupting and partial destruction of an evil global empire and the resultant decline arguably sped up the process of decolonisation that followed. "Protect our freedoms" my fucking arsehole, it was a warfare state that forced conscripts onto the battlefield, which is the absolute opposite of freedom.

David Adler
@davidrkadler
New bill in the French 🇫🇷 Senate : 'An insult committed against the State of Israel is punishable by two years of imprisonment and a fine of 75,000 euros.'

I don't even want to paste in what Germany are doing, just utterly disgusting

Belgian transport workers saved the lives of thousands of Jews in the 1940s by unlocking the doors of trains headed for the extermination camps. Now, they're refusing to load weapons onto ships headed to Israel. This is a meaningful & timeless solidarity with humanity. pic.twitter.com/kvcUMcnJd7

— Amro Ali (@_amroali) November 3, 2023

Wokeness run amok

Scoop: Blinken told Israeli war cabinet humanitarian pause will buy Israel time for Gaza operation. My story on @axioshttps://t.co/PkpZ8vrk5H

— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) November 4, 2023

Sorry, I blocked the Nazi social media website but it seems as if somebody is accusing Biden in being “complicit” in Palestinian massacre? What a concept

Quite an interesting set of remarks by this father (terrible headline), on his daughter's who have torn up those Israeli hostage fliers.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/03/news/father-of-aya-and-dana-bakaret-who-tore-israeli-posters-insists-they-are-good-girls/

“What happened in Manhattan with my daughters, I believe them. The lady provoke them, stole from their hand a picture of the baby and told her ‘this is going to keep happening to you as long as you support these people.’”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/media/2023/11/04/nyt-jazmine-hughes-resigns/

Central London blocked. Charing Cross station occupied.

---

Georgie Robertson
@_GeorgieBlaise
·
2h
🚨 HAPPENING NOW: huge sit in at Charring Cross station. Police have closed every entrance so hundreds more outside can’t join us. #CeasefireForGazaNOW #FreePalestine

The New York Times
@nytimes
Jazmine Hughes, an award-winning New York Times Magazine staff writer, resigned from the publication on Friday after she signed a letter that voiced support for Palestinians and protested Israel’s siege in Gaza.

These new twitter links are hella annoying

psa for all you can paste x links into ilx and then just erase the x in the url and type in twitter and the tweet will embed like the old days

There are issues with tweets embeds as outlined here.

Is this anti-semitism?

While that's to do with threads and not individual tweets I am trying to just link tweets as it makes some people mad that I am just linking to twitter at all (I am not going to stop, though I am having a go at defusing the issue).

But right now I think we're past that, because a lot of the messaging that causes people to link together Israel and The Jews In General is coming direct from Israel and pro-Israel Jewish groups, on purpose, with no concern for how they are setting up Jews around the world for a rise in antisemitism. The corollary to "Israel = The Jews; if you are anti-Israel you are anti-Semitic" is "If Israel does something you have to take a stance against, then you may as well embrace antisemitism in general." And right now Israel is committing atrocities and the world is not going to forgive the Jews for that. It's been 2000 years and people are still saying "The Jews killed Jesus" - how long will "The Jews carried out an ethnic cleansing" be used as a weapon against the world's Jewish population? I was talking to my dad about this, and he pointed out that an explosion in global antisemitism means more Jews seeing Israel as the only safe place to live, which means more settlers, which is what Netanyahu wants, so why would he care about the safety of Jews worldwide?

I don't mean this to suggest that I'm looking at this whole conflict through the lens of "Is this good for the Jews?" My primary concern is for Gaza. But when I do take a moment to look through that lens, it is undoubtedly very bad for the Jews.

― Lily Dale, Sunday, 5 November 2023 17:11 (six hours ago) link

I understand this line of thinking, but will never accept it, it's just excusing antisemitism. No one is saying "well Islamophobia is mainly the fault of Muslim groups that associate Islam with radicalization" Plenty of people are just happy to have an excuse to be antisemitic. Antisemitism quite obviously did not start with the founding of Israel. Whatever Bibi does, it shouldn't change that we don't have to prove we are "one of the good ones" before being afforded basic respect and dignity. I apply the same standard to all groups of people.

Yes, it's sometimes difficult to discuss how it feels to experience this as an American Jewish person without others getting weirdly defensive about the mere suggestion that they may have a slight bias or blind spot.

It feels a bit like being a woman and trying to discuss sexism with someone who gets angry and then mansplains to you how he's one of the good ones.

I find it most discouraging when people try to rationalize by explaining there has always been antisemitism, and surely we need to admit this, as if it's just a natural feature of the landscape that we should just be expected to tolerate.

Luckily, I did not grow up to believe that. I had very idealistic and accepting friends and supportive family. I just tune people out that try to explain my own experience back to me in a negative way. We do not just experience history. We also make it.

man alive, I didn't mean to say that antisemitism was mainly the fault of Israel, or that Israel's messaging is an excuse for antisemitism. I just meant that I think any message that represents Jews as a monolithic group is its own form of antisemitism, and one that I find very dangerous right now.

I think the analogy man alive makes in your previous post is quite a good one. Regardless of whether or not one thinks that all Muslims bear responsibility for the actions of groups who purport that atrocities they commit are in the name of Islam (and, to be clear, this is similarly a horrible and racist idea) it is clear that to do so is common and, based on a quick skim of British newspapers, respectable in many quarters. In this equation I think its pretty clear that there are a range of actors linked by an interest in making Islam and violence synonymous, regardless of the extreme divergence of their motivations. Both are culpable for forging this slanderous connection.

The wholesale commandeering of identities by fringe or conservative elements within them, motivated by deep animus, is common and tends to be enthusiastically embraced by the sensible, measured bigots that populate the opinion columns of the world. I think also of the, often unchallenged, framing of transphobia as the protection of women's or "LGB" rights. The spectacle of swivel-eyed right-wing thugs 'standing up for "LGB" rights' is not a reassuring or comforting development, and I feel a deep but difficult to articulate resonance with the images of the Jewish protesters being arrested in NYC with 'Not in my name' t-shirts. The horror and nauseating feeling of being implicated and used in such a cynical way. It seems especially galling given that apportioning blame for the state of Israel to jewish people everywhere is recognised as a fundamental expression and vector of antisemitism.

Nicholas Courtman
@CourtmanNick
German MP from the liberal party (!) calling for the parliament to eliminate foreigners’ right to organise protests and deny their right to association as a response to pro-Palestinian demonstrations, I see

dunno what that ! is about - the liberal party is the FDP, i.e. libertarian cranks, no surprise they'd be into this

Have seen a strong reaction to protests in Germany (and ofc the UK), across the pol class. But yes it's to be seen whether something is ratified in Parliament...just something to keep an eye on.

Center and left Israelis

A dying breed. Trump's even more popular in Israel than he is in the USA!

As always with this, and its been the case from October 8th or pre-/post-US election: Iran, and the Axis of Resistance, are the only ones that can deliver consequences.

Keep protesting and boycotting here. The braver ones will keep attacking bomb factories and blocking ports. But its a limited action.

Twitter is the thing most ILXors are serious about boycotting. Which is a good way to show you don't support Nazis and billionaires.

Good on most ilxors. Very nice.

Not to mention all the Dominionists/eveangelicals who would prefer all Jewish people to move to Israel to commence Armageddon? How do you think THEY vote?

Center and left Israelis would probably love to replace Netanyahu and do a peace deal, so for them Trump is not good news at all.

I'm sure this is true of some israeli leftists, but the opinion polls of the Israeli population I've seen indeed show a lot of dissatisfaction with Bibi but strong support of the war in general - is my info out of date? Has public opinion turned against it? Or are left + centre really such a small percentage of the population?

these two autocratic powers have colliding visions - Saudi Arabia towards a more secular direction

Not going to say this is wrong, have heard some steps being taken in Saudi Arabia regarding women's rights specifically and frankly don't know the context enough to be gung ho about this, but...considering Saudi Arabia has funded islamic extremism around the world, they have a strange way of going about this secularisation?

The Saudis are (literally) allowed to get away with murder because they're the West's big anti-Iran buddies. MBS is a repulsive autocrat in charge of a repulsive regime.

... oh, and oil of course.

From what i know, leftist Israelis are a small minority and repression of government criticism is intense.

Yeah I think we all know Saudi Arabia is a terrible regime that gets away w/ shit because of its US connection, think the essay felicity posted acknowledged that somewhat by calling them autocratic, just curious about this secular claim, obv they could be both.

I can easily believe the Israeli left is small but left + center? Wouldn't the center by definition have to be a lot of ppl?

This is true. My friend in Tel Aviv (a well known DJ) who was helping my other friend in Tulum navigate Israeli media ran down all the channels for her and at one point, they had to nuke someone who was a stringer selling stories to The Sun about the Mexican psytrance hostage my friend was desperate to help. 🤮

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8x5570514o?

"Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has condemned Israel’s actions in Gaza as “genocide” in some of the harshest public criticism of the country by a Saudi official since the start of the war.

Speaking at a summit of Muslim and Arab leaders the prince also criticised Israeli attacks on Lebanon and Iran.

Israel has vehemently denied that its forces are committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.

In a sign of improving ties between rivals Riyadh and Tehran, Prince Mohammed also warned Israel against launching attacks on Iranian soil."

Heartbreaking.jpeg

Incredible how these fascist hooligans are being effectively encouraged and tolerated. Besiktas lose home advantage too lol.

The Europa League game between Turkish side Besiktas and Maccabi Tel Aviv will be held at a neutral venue in Hungary instead of Istanbul as originally scheduled, due to safety concerns.

The game will be played behind closed doors, Hungarian authorities have decided citing the… https://t.co/w1bwYz4Fgv

— Leyla Hamed (@leylahamed) November 12, 2024

Their team are shit anyway so I expect Besiktas will still wallop them.

I know. Besiktas are still being punished.

Yeah I think we all know Saudi Arabia is a terrible regime that gets away w/ shit because of its US connection, think the essay felicity posted acknowledged that somewhat by calling them autocratic, just curious about this secular claim, obv they could be both.

Saudi Arabia being secular in a vacuum or in an absolute sense is not at all what Karim Sadjadpour is claiming. What he calls MBS' vision for Saudi Arabia's is in relation to and directional to what Sadjapour calls the vision of the Iranian regime.

SA is a monarchy with state religion led by MBS; the Iranian Regime is a theocracy led by Khemeni. MBS calls Khemeni the Hitler of the Middle East; Khemeni calls MBS an incompetent criminal.

To be clear, Saudi Arabia is an autocracy that causes many deaths that the US, Canada, and the UK also support with arms sales very heavily if not as much as Israel. That's not a comfort if you are concerned above all with innocent life. However it's part of the context for answering the question "what does Trump's election mean?"

whoops, that should be italics rather than strikethrough

Saudi Arabia being secular in a vacuum or in an absolute sense is not at all what Karim Sadjadpour is claiming. What he calls MBS' vision for Saudi Arabia's is in relation to and directional to what Sadjapour calls the vision of the Iranian regime.

Yeah, I get that - I had taken the idea to be that Saudi Arabia has a vision of moving towards a secular vision for the region as a whole, not that they were planning to become a secular state themselves. And this I find confusing because of their record of financing religious fundamentalism in the region.

Saudi likes financing it elsewhere but not within their own borders. The fact a million Iraqi citizens died when not a single Iraqi was among the 9/11 hijackers should tell you everything. What a fucking stain on those responsible.

Their daughters make great campaign surrogates I hear.

NEW — REPORTER: “Can you get a hostage deal done by the end of your term?”

BIDEN: "Do you think that you can get hit in the head by the camera behind you?” pic.twitter.com/x2fXcW9Mzo

— HOT SPOT (@HotSpotHotSpot) November 12, 2024

woof

The Barbarians are here.

The Ottoman building "Menshieh," located just meters from the UNESCO-listed Roman temples of Baalbek, before and after an Israeli strike destroyed it last week. pic.twitter.com/ZarbmqKXJs

— Nada Maucourant Atallah (@MaucourantNada) November 12, 2024

Disgusting.

Israeli supporters in tonight’s game between France and Israel at Stade de France beat up a French man.

Dozens of masked fans wearing Israeli flags can be seen laying into him, while the crowd boos. A lynching. https://t.co/mwEGSILmEY

— Naks Bilal (@NaksBilal) November 14, 2024

strange how neither of the two articles I read about the match said anything about that

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-government-could-fall-over-handling-amsterdam-violence-media-report-2024-11-15/

The Europa League game that toppled a government

The bravest, the best of what we have here in the murderous Western world.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgmvxgkwg17o

"If you look at what the suffragettes did, they were quite violent, they destroyed property, they put bricks through windows. We look on them as heroes.

"I think people will look back at people who took direct action in this context as heroes in the future."

100%!

i'm raising a (very small) amount of money and am wondering if there are any organizations ya'll would recommend, preferably those lower to the ground, more mutual aid and less large trusted global organization. pcrf is where a lot of locals point funds but just checking to see what you all do