Israel/Palestine post 10/7 - follow-on events/thoughts as relate to other countries

it's not good. i have a friend who was indulging in some "deep thoughts" about judaism around the time kanye was on one about jewish people, and i had an instagram convo w/him re: a couple of his posts. i don't know that i reached him, but i tried. another friend (no longer a friend) started to get very alt-right and was an associate of ow3n b3njamin for awhile, a podcast comedian type guy who started to get into some anti-semitic and racist stuff a few years ago. that particular friend is long gone. he was at my wedding. he probably helped hold me up high in my chair during the hora. he just wound up being a particularly "bad actor" in life. and a pernicious influence on others.

i live in a bubble in Los Angeles obv, but shit does happen here. threats against synagogues, anti-semitic graffiti on a famous local deli last night, etc...

the Poetry Foundation shelved a 3500-word review of a poetry book that discusses the book's criticisms of Israel...the poet author of the book is, of course, Jewish, and so is the reviewer.

The donor pocketbook is where artistic freedom hits a wall

This is where stuff like "It would be insensitive to publish this book about Soviet dissidents at this time" leads to.

― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes)

yeah that is obviously ridiculous

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive)

Reflexive censorship of art always seems to crop up when wars begin and wartime propaganda cranks up the red hot rhetoric. Even as recently as the invasion of Ukraine there were ridiculous people calling for cancellation of symphonies by Russian composers as a sign of solidarity with Ukrainians.

O rly

If a HAMAS sympathizer or a HAMAS-adjacent amateur lone wolf carries out a gun attack in the USA killing more than 10 people in the name is Palestine … this poll will flip like a flapjack. https://t.co/NkWdyaliV7

— Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) November 2, 2023

and if my granny had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. I like the specificity of ten or more people, it shows a vigorous imagination.

Reflexive censorship of art always seems to crop up when wars begin and wartime propaganda cranks up the red hot rhetoric. Even as recently as the invasion of Ukraine there were ridiculous people calling for cancellation of symphonies by Russian composers as a sign of solidarity with Ukrainians.

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, November 2, 2023 1:41 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
My kid’s teacher canceled their Russia unit. Like I really don’t think it matters to Ukrainian lives whether our kids are learning about faberge eggs and Baryshnikov

re: that poll.. I'm not really sure that Israel needs much military support anyway... they're a major arms manufacturer/exporter, inventors of the Uzi submachine gun. And they seemed to have no issues selling arms to South Africa's white minority government

and yet the House just approved 14.5 billion in aide to Israel for some reason

$4 billion for the Iron Dome, which kind of seems like locking the gate after the dog gets out.

Wake Forest professor resigns after backlash due to tweet

https://journalnow.com/news/local/wake-professor-resigns-following-backlash-of-social-media-post-on-israeli-hamas-war/article_4e1022a4-78ea-11ee-a828-ffa8e334019a.html

(She’s a really good poet, fwiw!)

14.5 billion in aide to Israel for some reason

er, mm, by long tradition all those billions can only be spent on armaments produced by US-based death merchants military-industrial complex manufacturers.

And lots of defence contracting

Protests are being planned for Armistice Day. Looks like the match will be lit on the tiniest pretence

"They died for your freedom, but don't you dare think about exercising it." https://t.co/xyCICKV35j

— James B (@piercepenniless) November 3, 2023

Clare Hymer
@ClareHymer
HAPPENING NOW: Another peaceful sit-in calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, this time at Kings Cross Station.

the only additional freedoms that came because of GB participation in the world wars was the bankrupting and partial destruction of an evil global empire and the resultant decline arguably sped up the process of decolonisation that followed. "Protect our freedoms" my fucking arsehole, it was a warfare state that forced conscripts onto the battlefield, which is the absolute opposite of freedom.

David Adler
@davidrkadler
New bill in the French 🇫🇷 Senate : 'An insult committed against the State of Israel is punishable by two years of imprisonment and a fine of 75,000 euros.'

I don't even want to paste in what Germany are doing, just utterly disgusting

Belgian transport workers saved the lives of thousands of Jews in the 1940s by unlocking the doors of trains headed for the extermination camps. Now, they're refusing to load weapons onto ships headed to Israel. This is a meaningful & timeless solidarity with humanity. pic.twitter.com/kvcUMcnJd7

— Amro Ali (@_amroali) November 3, 2023

Wokeness run amok

Scoop: Blinken told Israeli war cabinet humanitarian pause will buy Israel time for Gaza operation. My story on @axioshttps://t.co/PkpZ8vrk5H

— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) November 4, 2023

Sorry, I blocked the Nazi social media website but it seems as if somebody is accusing Biden in being “complicit” in Palestinian massacre? What a concept

Quite an interesting set of remarks by this father (terrible headline), on his daughter's who have torn up those Israeli hostage fliers.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/03/news/father-of-aya-and-dana-bakaret-who-tore-israeli-posters-insists-they-are-good-girls/

“What happened in Manhattan with my daughters, I believe them. The lady provoke them, stole from their hand a picture of the baby and told her ‘this is going to keep happening to you as long as you support these people.’”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/media/2023/11/04/nyt-jazmine-hughes-resigns/

Central London blocked. Charing Cross station occupied.

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Georgie Robertson
@_GeorgieBlaise
·
2h
🚨 HAPPENING NOW: huge sit in at Charring Cross station. Police have closed every entrance so hundreds more outside can’t join us. #CeasefireForGazaNOW #FreePalestine

The New York Times
@nytimes
Jazmine Hughes, an award-winning New York Times Magazine staff writer, resigned from the publication on Friday after she signed a letter that voiced support for Palestinians and protested Israel’s siege in Gaza.

These new twitter links are hella annoying

psa for all you can paste x links into ilx and then just erase the x in the url and type in twitter and the tweet will embed like the old days

There are issues with tweets embeds as outlined here.

Is this anti-semitism?

While that's to do with threads and not individual tweets I am trying to just link tweets as it makes some people mad that I am just linking to twitter at all (I am not going to stop, though I am having a go at defusing the issue).

But right now I think we're past that, because a lot of the messaging that causes people to link together Israel and The Jews In General is coming direct from Israel and pro-Israel Jewish groups, on purpose, with no concern for how they are setting up Jews around the world for a rise in antisemitism. The corollary to "Israel = The Jews; if you are anti-Israel you are anti-Semitic" is "If Israel does something you have to take a stance against, then you may as well embrace antisemitism in general." And right now Israel is committing atrocities and the world is not going to forgive the Jews for that. It's been 2000 years and people are still saying "The Jews killed Jesus" - how long will "The Jews carried out an ethnic cleansing" be used as a weapon against the world's Jewish population? I was talking to my dad about this, and he pointed out that an explosion in global antisemitism means more Jews seeing Israel as the only safe place to live, which means more settlers, which is what Netanyahu wants, so why would he care about the safety of Jews worldwide?

I don't mean this to suggest that I'm looking at this whole conflict through the lens of "Is this good for the Jews?" My primary concern is for Gaza. But when I do take a moment to look through that lens, it is undoubtedly very bad for the Jews.

― Lily Dale, Sunday, 5 November 2023 17:11 (six hours ago) link

I understand this line of thinking, but will never accept it, it's just excusing antisemitism. No one is saying "well Islamophobia is mainly the fault of Muslim groups that associate Islam with radicalization" Plenty of people are just happy to have an excuse to be antisemitic. Antisemitism quite obviously did not start with the founding of Israel. Whatever Bibi does, it shouldn't change that we don't have to prove we are "one of the good ones" before being afforded basic respect and dignity. I apply the same standard to all groups of people.

Yes, it's sometimes difficult to discuss how it feels to experience this as an American Jewish person without others getting weirdly defensive about the mere suggestion that they may have a slight bias or blind spot.

It feels a bit like being a woman and trying to discuss sexism with someone who gets angry and then mansplains to you how he's one of the good ones.

I find it most discouraging when people try to rationalize by explaining there has always been antisemitism, and surely we need to admit this, as if it's just a natural feature of the landscape that we should just be expected to tolerate.

Luckily, I did not grow up to believe that. I had very idealistic and accepting friends and supportive family. I just tune people out that try to explain my own experience back to me in a negative way. We do not just experience history. We also make it.

man alive, I didn't mean to say that antisemitism was mainly the fault of Israel, or that Israel's messaging is an excuse for antisemitism. I just meant that I think any message that represents Jews as a monolithic group is its own form of antisemitism, and one that I find very dangerous right now.

I think the analogy man alive makes in your previous post is quite a good one. Regardless of whether or not one thinks that all Muslims bear responsibility for the actions of groups who purport that atrocities they commit are in the name of Islam (and, to be clear, this is similarly a horrible and racist idea) it is clear that to do so is common and, based on a quick skim of British newspapers, respectable in many quarters. In this equation I think its pretty clear that there are a range of actors linked by an interest in making Islam and violence synonymous, regardless of the extreme divergence of their motivations. Both are culpable for forging this slanderous connection.

The wholesale commandeering of identities by fringe or conservative elements within them, motivated by deep animus, is common and tends to be enthusiastically embraced by the sensible, measured bigots that populate the opinion columns of the world. I think also of the, often unchallenged, framing of transphobia as the protection of women's or "LGB" rights. The spectacle of swivel-eyed right-wing thugs 'standing up for "LGB" rights' is not a reassuring or comforting development, and I feel a deep but difficult to articulate resonance with the images of the Jewish protesters being arrested in NYC with 'Not in my name' t-shirts. The horror and nauseating feeling of being implicated and used in such a cynical way. It seems especially galling given that apportioning blame for the state of Israel to jewish people everywhere is recognised as a fundamental expression and vector of antisemitism.

Nicholas Courtman
@CourtmanNick
German MP from the liberal party (!) calling for the parliament to eliminate foreigners’ right to organise protests and deny their right to association as a response to pro-Palestinian demonstrations, I see

dunno what that ! is about - the liberal party is the FDP, i.e. libertarian cranks, no surprise they'd be into this

Have seen a strong reaction to protests in Germany (and ofc the UK), across the pol class. But yes it's to be seen whether something is ratified in Parliament...just something to keep an eye on.

I could imagine it going through yeah, and it is v scary

wouldn't put it past the german left either tbh

Interesting thread on why the US having no red lines is bad foreign policy.

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Jeet Heer
@HeerJeet
·
1h
1. I want to suggest that Biden shouldn't be guided by domestic politics on this but by what is in the foreign policy interest of the USA. Biden is giving de facto unequivocal support (with a few rhetorical cautions) to a massacre. That is bad for America. Period

the thing about this copy paste technique is that there's no way for us to click to the rest of the thread

I prefer it

I know, it's responding to something else so the embed would be an issue here.

People who are on twitter can seek it out.

People who hate the platform can ignore it.

xp

8. What you have right now is a State Dept filled with people who know the policies they are executing are bad for America and for the world, in addition to being morally revolting. The domestic politics of this seem secondary to me compared to that.

— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) November 6, 2023

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-wanted-to-fire-far-right-minister-caved-under-ben-gvirs-opposition-tv/

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wanted to fire Heritage Minister Amichai Eliyahu for saying one of Israel’s options in the war against Hamas is to nuke Gaza, but buckled following opposition from far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir, Channel 12 news reports.

Ben Gvir, who heads the far-right Otzma Yehudit party, of which Eliyahu is a member, told Netanyahu he would not cooperate with the effort, saying the government should be focusing on destroying Hamas, not “educating ministers,” according to the network. Netanyahu then folded."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/humber-student-boycott-israeli-apartheid-1.7020897

kicked out of school for a "boycott Israeli apartheid" sticker...

Rashida Tlaib censured by the House due to "from the river to the sea"....https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/07/us/politics/tlaib-censure-house-israel-gaza.html?te=1&nl=from-the-times&emc=edit_ufn_20231107

A source shared with me this resignation letter from Victoria Ruiz, the pro-Palestine public defender who was forced out of her position this week by a NY Post-led harassment campaign. Tells her side of the story. pic.twitter.com/a17KTgYjH7

— Brendan O'Connor (@_grendan) November 8, 2023

New York public defender forced to resign for attending a pro-Palestine vigil

Surrounded by some of her progressive Democratic colleagues, Tlaib said earlier Tuesday she would not be "silenced" and accused members of distorting her words.

"I can't believe we have to say this, but Palestinian people are not disposable," she said before she broke down in tears for several seconds earlier on Tuesday. Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., stood to comfort Tlaib before she continued.

"We are human beings just like anyone else. My sity, my grandmother -- like all Palestinians -- just wants to live her life with freedom and human dignity we all deserve," she said. "Speaking up to save lives no matter faith, no matter ethnicity should not be controversial in this chamber. The cries of the Palestinian and Israeli children sound no different to me. What I don't understand is why the cries of Palestinian children sound different to you all. We cannot lose our shared humanity."

ridiculous censure vote, ridiculous institution

Whatever party wins next month it is certain that hostility toward Palestine from the British government is to continue.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/30/two-more-us-officials-resign-over-biden-administrations-position-on-gaza-war

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7lEDW5OjXE/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Just saw this shared on instagram, by my former college acquaintance who has some affiliation with reality israel, which is a group I believe this activist is part of, perhaps even a founder. I also believe she was someone who was strongly pushing the narrative that academia in the United States was infiltrated with rampant anti-semitism, and she might have even been somewhat adjacently involved with the Congressional embarrassments in recent months.

I really don't have any comments on this beyond that, just seemed like the right thread for it.

why bring pro-genocide bullshit here?

“here’s some pro-Israel talking points justifying mass murder, also I know this lady” like wtf

Something so grim about what I term Hasbara Honeys with balayage, immaculate make-up and enunciation straight out of a flight safety video.

"Turns out it's all their fault, not ours."

if you read carefully you'd see that I don't actually know this person at all, this dumbass I went to school with perhaps knows her and shared it, and obviously others have posted content from the pro-israeli side to shine a light on the type of bs being pushed. I don't know what you think my post was intended to convey other than disgust but allow me to say that type of content is disgusting but important to see.

And please I ask you, don't put words in my mouth, or imply something completely untrue about my motives.

Omar you’ve posted a lot about your family, your fears and your perspective over these threads. I thought you were showing it not to spread it in and of itself, but because seeing someone you know irl pushing this kind of content is really shocking. It’s hard to know what to say about radicalisation or how to combat it. I was reading an article a good while back about people with Qanon parents and it honestly was horrifying reading about these people trying to reason with their parents who lived in a different reality.

That's true, gyac, I don't really feel anything more than appalled by seeing that. it's sort of this helpless feeling seeing it, the complicated justifications which can be summed up as "this massacre was a good thing and here's why."

I'm irrationally annoyed by that lady's hypercorrect pronunciation of "Hamas" (it's spelled with a ح not a خ)

On further investigation, it appears that mispronouncing "Hamas" is just a normal thing that Israelis do? (I'll try not to read too much into that.) Didn't mean for that to be a cheap shot, I just find it genuinely annoying, in the same way that Anglo Americans saying "habañero" is annoying.

Sa-damm Hussein

Former president of Eye-Rack

The Former Guy

The book jacket for "A Problem From Hell" says:

"Samantha Power poses a question that haunts our nation's past: Why do American leaders who vow 'never again' repeatedly fail to marshal the will and the might to stop genocide?"

Right now she's firing people for reports on Gaza. pic.twitter.com/QWVJSjgZqk

— ☀️ Jon Schwarz ☀️ (@schwarz) May 30, 2024

People grow and change

Sorry for jumping down your throat omar.

I personally don’t feel the need to see that kind of hasbara stuff, because there’s so much of it to go around. That’s just me tho, and I understand why you brought it in. I was so repulsed I overreacted.

It's okay, I mean I have not seen a whole lot of that stuff because I've been studiously avoiding much of the discourse for my own sanity, that one just showed up right in my feed this morning and it was immediately appalling to me. The tone of the couple other ones I've seen are all so similar, these slick influencer vids designed for the fog of war.