Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events: Oct 23 on

J0rdan otm, ofc

i went to the march in DC yesterday. got right up to the white house. the only thing in the last month that's made me feel better about all of this was being part of the many many thousands letting the palestinians know that people here are speaking up for them. the organizers even brought macklemore to the stage for some levity (unintentional)

what israel is doing -- taking in billions of dollars from the most powerful government in existence in order to use advanced aerial weaponry on innocent civilians to accumulate mass death -- is... pretty much the worst thing that can happen in the world?

The worst thing that can happen in the world? Absolutely not. What North Korea is doing every single day to it's millions of citizens and the actual, very real genocide of Uyghurs in China (a country with billions, nukes and deep deep economic connections across the world) is far worse in terms of number of lives affected. What is happening in Palestine is indeed fucked, a massive conflict of interest for the West, and has major implications in the area, but to say that the suffering in Gaza is "more" and "worst thing in the world" is massive exaggeration and merely a reaction to the media attention. Ukraine, by your own description, due to the numbers, weapons and tactics (blowing up dams, the potential of blowing up a nuclear power plant) far eclipses Gaza in this regard. It's disturbing to me as it does feel more and more, everyday, that antisemitism seems to drive this intensely disproportionate passion and attention. I would love for this newfound sympathy and focus on the oppressed to be actually consistent across all the world's situations, regardless of the connections to the West. Pointing out that this situation is the "worst" screams some form of bias to me.

It's fucked, a cease fire should happen ASAP, and actual progress towards long term solutions should be happening (including the elimination of Hamas and current Israeli leadership with both being tried for war crimes), but any rhetoric beyond that, especially to hold this crisis and tragedy above even Ukraine is disturbing to me at a deep level, and reeks of inherent bias driven by anti-semitism.

And if someone disagrees with your assessment?

“when i was little, i asked myself if i was palestinian”

xpost

Like have we forgotten how many thousands of children Russia has kidnapped? Who knows how those kids will be trafficked, but given Russia's reputation, no doubt it's not for anything remotely wholesome, and I'm sure you can imagine the worst possible outcome there.

That act alone disgusts me far more than any IDF action has taken thus far.

FP

(xp) So you're saying JOrdan S is antisemitic?

this is why you don't have to take "but what about the Uyghurs" concern trolling seriously

xxp if someone disagrees with my assessment, fine - that's their opinion, but it feels hypocritical to me, and I'd love to discuss more the motivations and source of passion behind the view.

that's... already been done quite eloquently itt?

(xp) So you're saying JOrdan S is antisemitic?

To be very clear, no I'm not.

That wasn't very clear from what you posted.

xp and perhaps that's the case. I'll also comment that I'm expressing some possible outsized paranoia with concern for myself right now, so perhaps I should step aside and cool off.

I'll also say that antisemitism, like racism, is subject to inherent bias, from which people who honestly don't want to express sometimes express it. That said, not accusing anyone of that here, but I might have interpreted a few comments along those lines, and that's on me. Anyways, I'm going to avoid this thread for a bit for my own mental health.

octo the big western democracies have blessed and funded israel’s mechanised killing and demonised dprk’s, china’s and russia’s, is i think the pertinent distinction

To be very clear, no I'm not.

― octobeard, Sunday, November 5, 2023 3:05 PM (four minutes ago)

sorry, but i don't believe you

i'm a jew so you can try out the anti-semitism stuff on the next person. perhaps you will have better luck. it makes you sound like someone with an inability to think critically about this subject

i also think you may have a severe issue w/ basic reading comprehension if you read a paragraph in which i explicitly equated ukraine and palestine as innocent states being victimzed by advanced war techniques and then proceeded to tell me that i elevated palestine over ukraine and that it might be rooted in anti-semitism. perhaps in your attempt to call out all the ways in which my argument reeks of bias, you may have been smelling yourself. try cracking a window and re-reading my post

further, here is an extremely long multimedia article in the new yorker that tells the plight of the uyghurs. i read it two years ago

https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/china-xinjiang-prison-state-uighur-detention-camps-prisoner-testimony

here is a multimedia article from the BBC communicating w/ north koreans in hopes of helping expose what the govt is doing to its citizens

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/bskbb4rmae/inside-north-korea

meanwhile, journalists across america up to those at the new york times are being forced to resign for publicly stating that bombing palestinians amounts to genocide. i think that your understanding of proportions is simply off

^ ^ ^

jordan otm

Who knows how those kids will be trafficked, but given Russia's reputation, no doubt it's not for anything remotely wholesome, and I'm sure you can imagine the worst possible outcome there.

almost amusing to say this during a rant about bias

the posts here tonight are stuff I already know, but it's good to see it restated with such clarity

agreed

yes, there have been some really insightful and illuminating posts today. I wrote and then deleted several posts because each time someone had posted something much smarter and wiser in the xp

I've bookmarked and released this thread several times out of frustration and anger; today's been a series of marvelous posts.

Jordan, thanks for your words. I am aware I'm posting very emotionally today, fueled primarily by paranoia.

It is pertinent I think, to point out that there are some very stark and objectively fair comparisons to be made between Ukraine and Gaza, particularly wrt more brutal Russian operations like the Siege of Mariupol.

For example, 500 children have been killed in total in Ukraine since the start of the war nearly 2 years ago, but over 4000 kids have been killed in Gaza in just one month.

https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-soldiers-kill-ukraine-children-documentary-war/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/5/true-massacre-gaza-children-death-toll-crosses-4000-as-raids-intensify

I went to the march in DC yesterday. Of course the day after sees the most horrendous day of bombing yet. Things are changing fast but not nearly fast enough.

I would love for this newfound sympathy and focus on the oppressed to be actually consistent across all the world's situations, regardless of the connections to the West.

Here's the thing: the point of protest is to sway public opinion and put pressure on elected leaders. It is not just a manifestation of feeling sad for victims, it's supposed to achieve something. And so "regardless of the connections of the West", that's v much missing the point imo - the more tenous a situation's connection with the West is, the less likely it is that protests in the West will help in any way.

Chimene Suleyman
@chimenesuleyman
·
1h
Thing is, some of us never had the luxury of being surprised by how many look away from genocide, or jump through hoops to justify it. My parents barely survived ethnic cleansing in the Levant, not far from Palestine. My granddad didn’t survive it. People still don’t give a fuck.
---
Chimene Suleyman
@chimenesuleyman
We spent a long time watching tourists in party towns on the other side of the border, that we couldn’t even cross to go visit my grandads (mass) grave. No passports, direct flights, even to this day. And we still get told we dont have a legitimate claim to centuries of homeland

Heba Farouk Mahfouz
@HebaFarooq
·
2h
Medical source at Shifa:”“Don’t bother yourself. It is ending. Total collapse. A total collapse for the medical system. We can not do anything. Electricity is now limited to only one building, major centers only there. There is no food, not even for medical staff".

Malaka
@MalakaShwaikh
·
40m
I just read a human rights report in Arabic (from
@EuroMedHRAr
) which clearly states that the massacre that Israel committed over night in Gaza is the deadliest since 1948. Report of 1500 Palestinians killed & injured. All while Gaza has been cut off from the world. I’m shattered

Chimene Suleyman
@chimenesuleyman
·
1h
Thing is, some of us never had the luxury of being surprised by how many look away from genocide, or jump through hoops to justify it. My parents barely survived ethnic cleansing in the Levant, not far from Palestine. My granddad didn’t survive it. People still don’t give a fuck.
---
Chimene Suleyman
@chimenesuleyman
We spent a long time watching tourists in party towns on the other side of the border, that we couldn’t even cross to go visit my grandads (mass) grave. No passports, direct flights, even to this day. And we still get told we dont have a legitimate claim to centuries of homeland

― xyzzzz__, Monday, 6 November 2023 13:22 (two hours ago) link

Where is she referring to?

Doesn't say, that's a long time twitter account that I've come across many times over the years though.

embracing their role as chief propagandists

CNN's @FareedZakaria on journalists who have embedded with the IDF in Gaza:

"As a condition to enter Gaza under IDF air support, outlets have to submit all materials and footage to the Israeli military for review prior to publication. CNN has agreed to these terms...." pic.twitter.com/r4GGPiCtmJ

— Arif Rafiq (@ArifCRafiq) November 5, 2023

I feel like I’m doomed to spectate the Iraq War helplessly over and over. Embedded with the troops! It has a familiar, hollow ring.

thank you for marching, J0rdan. The images of massive numbers of people marching worldwide for Palestinians this weekend made me feel less alone.

I would love for this newfound sympathy and focus on the oppressed to be actually consistent across all the world's situations, regardless of the connections to the West.

Here's the thing: the point of protest is to sway public opinion and put pressure on elected leaders. It is not just a manifestation of feeling sad for victims, it's supposed to achieve something. And so "regardless of the connections of the West", that's v much missing the point imo - the more tenous a situation's connection with the West is, the less likely it is that protests in the West will help in any way.

― Daniel_Rf, Monday, November 6, 2023 4:58 AM (eleven hours ago) bookmarkflagli

I have complex feelings about this notion, some of which I don’t feel comfortable posting on a public forum. To some extent, I think peaceful public protests are for the public, not necessarily the power structure. Certainly Netanyahu is unreachable through such means and Biden I think only by means of his vanity and desperation to win re-election.

I will just say, the George Floyd summer made me rethink my knee-jerk discomfort with political violence. Sometimes it works.

It also begs the question "what is called violence," but this isn't the thread for that discussion, obv.

10.000 names on the front page of Watan Amroz. pic.twitter.com/BOIzqSr7du

— Hanine Hassan حنين (@Hanine09) November 7, 2023

horseshoe, I'm certainly not holding my breath that protests will influence Netanyahu or Biden or Sunak - was just saying it's conceptually more possible than ppl marching in the US or UK influecing Xi Jinping or Putin.

Protests in early 2022 may not have influenced Putin but its arguable that they influenced Western leaders when it came to their response. I wouldn't necessarily hold my breath on protests influencing Sunak or Biden on this either, but it isn't impossible

One thing to note is that even tho they might not work, the shows of solidarity with Palestinians are appreciated by them.

It covers events before the current war, but this documentary about rock climbing in Palestine is incredibly moving and doesn’t mince words. Very glad I watched it…. I am now hoping that the people in the film are still alive.

https://watch.reelrocktour.com/videos/rr17-resistanceclimbing

Palestinian poet Fady Joudah, ‘A Palestinian Meditation in a Time of Annihilation’

https://lithub.com/a-palestinian-meditation-in-a-time-of-annihilation/

Husam Zomlot
@hzomlot
Invading Israeli tanks are in #Gaza to force the mass expulsion of Palestinians from their homes. We have warned repeatedly that Israel is planning for and implementing a 2nd #Nakba. And the world is still debating whether to call for a #CeasefireForGaza?

There is a video within the tweet

however you're pasting things in now only shows the text and no longer embeds the tweet

people keep complaining when it's embedded, people are complaining when it's copy/pasted. pick a side.

Don't want to bombard non-twitter users here with one embed after another so I am using a bit more judgement.

I embed the front cover iny prev post as I don't know how to post a picture.