Anti-semitism thread: onwards from 2023

the original one was looonng

It might be good to leave behind the thread title "Is this anti-semitism?" Asking/answering that question only occupies a small sliver of the discussion there. The broader topic deserves a thread that's less ambiguous.

yep. the de facto core thread on the subject having that title isn't great. it's funny with the guardian thread tho

I find the topic of antisemitism difficult to express my full opinions about, because it always feels like they will be used against Jews. I don't want to police the way other people experience things, but there is something very frustrating to watch about people who are relatively safe and privileged in life get overly worked up about what actually may be a large threat in their life. E.g. I think the issues of campus antisemitism and left antisemitism are simultaneously real and exaggerated. The idea that Jews are somehow no longer safe on college campuses is ridiculous, and yet there are also very real aggressions happening against Jews on college campuses of the type that would probably be made an issue of if they happened to any other minority group.

I think discomfort is often confused for lack of safety, but there are also real threats to safety, and I know that these reactions come from generational trauma, and that violence can rear its head any time. There have been real synagogue shootings in recent memory. Someone really did paint a Jewish star on a Jewish bakery in my town a few days ago, and then a Jewish star was painted on a home a couple of days after, along with a pentagram and what looked like "9/11" although I'm not sure. Maybe just a mentally unstable individual. Maybe that person is harmless or maybe they are violent.

I am always hesitant to minimize antisemitism, because it is real, and because it has been taken to worse heights in living memory, and because it can become exacerbated. And at the same time I don't feel comfortable with devoting too much attention to antisemitism that doesn't disrupt most of our lives while people are being killed in airstrikes.

The discourse around Palestine is also very challenging to navigate. The place where it bleeds into antisemitism is slippery, hard to pinpoint, just like with use of the "Z-word." "Free" is hard to argue with, "From the River to the Sea" is open to different interpretations, and I think different people mean different things by it, but it has definitely historically been used at times to mean "expel the Jews from all of Palestine," and I'm sure some people at rallies mean that today. Maybe some would argue that even this meaning isn't "antisemitic" because the Jews in Israel/Palestine are all just "colonizers." I feel like antisemitism in the Muslim world is a third rail that is difficult to talk about, but it is a significant phenomenon (and I will fully admit that racism in Israel and islamophobia in Israel are serious problems). It wasn't that long ago that Protocols of the Elders of Zion was made into a tv miniseries in Egypt. The book used to be a bestseller in many Muslim countries. I don't know if that's still the case. I don't really know what to do with this information exactly - it's not as though I assume most Muslims are antisemitic or anything like that, I just think the dynamic of prejudices is a bit more complex and multilayered than it is made out to be. Certain European antisemities also seem to be almost glad to have Israel as a vessel for their antisemitism.

At the same time, I can even kind of understand why Palestinians in the territories might hate Jews, if the primary face of Jews for them is settlers and the IDF.

Jews are a very small minority in the world. We are a minority that have kind of "punched above our weight" in success and privilege, and some of us get to be white in America, and we are also a minority with a long history of persecution and relatively short modern history of persecution being at much lower levels, but still have collective memory of that long history of persecution. I don't think that contemporary discourse on race and class has really figured out how Jews fit in to the whole thing.

*overly worked up about what may not actually be a large threat in their life.

great post man alive.

I think this has been discussed already on the threads at some point but one of the things that is most challenging for me is that the conflating of Israel and Jews happens across the political spectrum and with all sorts of valences, not only among those who use it as an antisemitic brush to tar Jews. I know A LOT of Jews who cry antisemitism at any Israel criticism because they really believe it for themselves - support for Israel is foundational to *their* Jewish identities, and they struggle to imagine any sort of meaningful Jewish identity that doesn't share that pillar (or if they can conceive of it, they denigrate it). Just today I got a group text from a friend about how "antisemitic messages" were being chalked around town. He sent a picture of one: it said "Free Palestine." In this climate it is just maddening to establish any solid ground to have these discussions from, about an uptick of actual bigotry against Jews - is there one, how big is it, how concerned should I be about it.

My wife's cousins just visited over the weekend. They're pretty conventionally liberal but take Judaism seriously, or at least one of them does. I brought up the "river to the sea" chant and made the devil's advocate argument that not everyone saying it is anti-Semitic, and they bristled, likening its defense to the bad faith defense of phrases like "all lives matter." It's not inherently offensive, or even literally offensive, but when you see an "all lives matter" sticker or sign you know what it means and generally who embraces it.

Of course, Jews have been primed to detect (and ignore) anti-Semitism to varying degrees for decades, because it's always around, unprompted, sometimes more virulent than other times but never totally absent, and definitely amplified (or minimized) by the context. For example, the Yiddish cultural center in the Bronx that was tagged with "Free Palestine:"

The Sholem-Aleichem Cultural Center in the Bronx was vandalized with "Free Palestine" graffiti. A Yiddish language cultural center, it's not a Zionist-related institution by a longshot. pic.twitter.com/jTI4ZWMD4E

— portnoy (@eddyportnoy) November 2, 2023

"Free Palestine" is not itself offensive, but tagging it on a Yiddish cultural center is an example of how it can be perceived that way. Or how, reportedly, the Philly Palestine Coalition circulated a list of 15,000 restaurants to boycott because they are "owned by Zionists." Which is to say, purportedly owned by or associated with Jews.

The conflation of Judaism with Israel is always a challenge. The relationship demands nuance, and nuance is the antithesis of angry protest. As I probably posted before, ignorance of Judaism is pretty widespread in the best of circumstances, imo, and can easily be exploited or otherwise be taken advantage of in the race to raise voices.

I heard a good interview with two local Reform rabbis yesterday, about how to support a grieving congregation when everyone is hurting but no two people may be hurting the same way, or for the same reason. But both rabbis noted that something in the air feels different this time, a release of generational trauma that's affecting everyone from kids to grandparents. I think a lot of that came from the simultaneous revelation of the specific horrors of Oct. 7 with the ramping up of anti-Israel protest, even before Israel's retaliation. It was like Jews had no time to mourn or process before they were immediately, inevitably put on the defensive again. It's emotionally exhausting, and while that's not the same thing as feeling physically threatened, Jews, like a lot of minorities, understand it doesn't take much to tip things in that direction. 

Similarly:
https://x.com/ElliotKaufman6/status/1721893935247966487?s=20

(across from an Orthodox synagogue)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-VlZ9saAAA0zOe?format=jpg&name=900x900

Are you saying that’s antisemitic? It’s not totally coherent but I’m not sure about antisemitic.

aiui, brooklyn has a very large jewish population and that's been the case for a long time. it also is experiencing gentrification. if anything, the 'settlers' in brooklyn would be hipster goyim. so maybe the point of that slogan was striving to raise issues of intersectionality. hard to say.

re: Brooklyn, they could be talking about Europeans buying the land that would become Brooklyn from the Canarsie Indians, but being that half of NYC's Jewish population lives in Brooklyn, that may be the anti-Semitic angle?

I talked to my brother the other day, he's active at his Brooklyn synagogue, which is apparently very lefty/activist. He's part of an anti-Zionist group there and they had been planning out a big potluck. Unfortunately, the scheduled date was Oct 8 and they stirred up a lot of controversy for going ahead with it right after the Hamas attack. According to him, the synagogue has both pro- and anti-Zionists groups, and even some pro-Hamas people! Sounds like it is a very hectic and stressful time for him and everyone there. I don't have much of a point with this other than the kinds of situations he described are way outside of my own personal experience living in suburban Texas.

xp
I guess this is my "as a Canadian" day on ilx. Settler has a very clear and unmistakable meaning in the context of Canadian leftism (= everyone who isn't Indigenous, while remembering the history of the slave trade) and wouldn't normally be antisemitic. But I agree that as a statement with no author or context it's pretty stupid, and it's unhelpful as a comment on an ongoing genocide. Plus as stated, posting near a synagogue absolutely opens the door to it being perceived as antisemitic.

even some pro-Hamas people

...

I was a bit shocked and incredulous about this, but I guess he meant people who are pro-armed struggle, don't know if that really makes it any better

The sticker is in Philly, not Brooklyn. ILXors understood the reference to large numbers of Jewish immigrants living in Brooklyn.

It's associating this with a "problem."

Real brain-dead, lizard brain stuff.

xp

good post man alive. especially identify with this part

I am always hesitant to minimize antisemitism, because it is real, and because it has been taken to worse heights in living memory, and because it can become exacerbated. And at the same time I don't feel comfortable with devoting too much attention to antisemitism that doesn't disrupt most of our lives while people are being killed in airstrikes.

never want to minimize anti-semitism, but i do want jewish people (at least the privileged people in my community) to get some perspective.

I asked my brother if any of these I/P slogans or demonstrations are happening at my nephew's junior high school. My brother says he is a lot more worried about my nephew growing up African-American with a potential Trump presidency.

I don't think any of these manifestations of Jewish hatred should be accepted. And yet it's also possible to keep them in perspective.

I totally get that. But imagine the response to any other marginalized group's discomfort being "get some perspective."

xp ah sorry I didn’t click through to the tweet. It being in Philly makes it unambiguous

Yesterday my wife and 6 yr old were walking by the catholic school which was letting out on the corner near our house when a bigger kid, but still elementary aged kid, came up to them, held up a cell phone with a picture of Hitler on it and said "what do you think about him?" or something.

My wife just pushed on by but contacted the school and they quickly saw the kid on security cameras and talked to him and his parents. Surprised it got that kind of response.

Can't even imagine what the kid was going on about or thinking. It's easy to just think "dumb, confused, asshole kid, no big deal" but also probably good to stop that kind of thing at the root.

I totally get that. But imagine the response to any other marginalized group's discomfort being "get some perspective."

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, November 7, 2023 10:56 AM bookmarkflaglink

Oh totally. I should have said that was my brother's perspective. Not that I have any claim to impose any chosen perspective on others.

Xp

A 6 year old? That's grim.

You have to wonder what led a kid to that point.

Kids can be so dumb and not really understand half the things they do or the impact/repercussions of their actions when it comes to stuff like this. In fourth or fifth grade, I gave my yearbook to a boy to sign. He passed it around to the others and they all drew swastikas and stuff implying that my dad was a naxi in it and all ove it because my dad is from Germany. I was upset. I think my mom had a meeting with the teacher. In the end though, I think those kids knew that was something bad but not really how bad. Maybe I'm being naive and they did. Kids can be idiots though and I think it's absolutely good to squash that. Sorry that happened though.

aiui, brooklyn has a very large jewish population and that's been the case for a long time. it also is experiencing gentrification. if anything, the 'settlers' in brooklyn would be hipster goyim. so maybe the point of that slogan was striving to raise issues of intersectionality. hard to say.

I'm imagining a kid who doesn't understand anything. Just knows something's supposed to be shocking or taboo and likes to fuck around. Just a kind of bullying. I don't imagine he's thinking "oh this kid is definitely half jewish" or even thinking much of anything? I don't know. I think my wife just told my daughter it was something he shouldn't be doing and she didn't ask more. I've had a lot of thoughts about how to talk about what's going on or if to talk about what's going on in general and haven't really. My wife told her a little bit, just explained there's some terrible stuff going on and it's making people very upset.

I can't imagine having to have or even think about having those conversations with a child. I am also inclined to think that the kid in question knows the guy is bad and gets a reaction from people so a kind of shock value thing but it's still terrible.

I feel like there was always one kid in school (in the 80's) who was obsessed with Nazis/Hitler/WWII. In high school, one of them was in my german class, and he called me a fag on a daily basis. He was actually Persian and I had to inform him that Hitler would have had him killed. I finally ratted him out to the teacher because his notebook was covered in swastikas.

I started reading the Gary Gulman memoir (he's a really funny comedian). A lot of it is about growing up poor, and Jewish, in Boston. Here's an excerpt of his discovery, in 2nd grade, so around age 6 or 7, of anti-Semitism, by way of his soon to be ex-best friend, Wally Mitler:

“But it was his Holocaust miniseries recap back when I was in Rand’s class that caused me the most pain. It had a permanent effect on our friendship and my self-image.

He had told me about the miniseries the day after it started airing in April 1978. We were playing catch on the side of my house. Wally was not good at baseball, but, like every other boy, he had a glove and played Little League. Playing Little League was basically compulsory in 1970s Massachusetts. He threw wrong and seldom caught the ball. He claimed he needed a new glove. No, he needed new hands.

I had been sent out of the family room and its door was shut when Holocaust premiered on NBC the night before. It was the talk of the town, especially among the town’s Jews. Our "Roots.”

I am not sure if I had even heard the word “Holocaust” before the series began to air, and I definitely knew none of the particulars. I had a fear of Hitler identical to my fear of the devil, but I’m not sure of its origin. If it was discussed around me, it was done quietly; my mother forbade the discussion of anything solemn or emotionally challenging in her presence. Wally, now an expert after having seen the program, filled me in on what happened to Jews during the Holocaust, sharing with me the unspeakable specifics. He said that Jews were burned alive in ovens and starved in camps. My people were also gassed with poison. I was horrified, hoping he would stop talking about it. But much like with his devil voice, I think he enjoyed unnerving me.

When his précis ended, I asked the unanswerable question. Why? Why did they do that to the Jews? What could we have done to deserve this? I was asking out of genuine curiosity, the same way when I was five, I had asked him what G-d looked like. But I also asked him because I knew that whatever he said would let me know what he thought about Jews. I understood, as early as kindergarten, that my people were the object of pervasive hatred.

“Why?” I asked.

Without any hesitation Wally gave me his analysis.

“The Jews were rich snobs … walking around with their noses in the air.”

He said this with certainty, like it was an indisputable fact and, what’s more disturbing, a valid explanation for Hitler’s atrocities.

There is no way Wally generated this explanation on his own. This was an idea an adult in his life must have expressed. Until that moment I’d never thought about how close Mitler is to Hitler. They’re one letter apart.
I’d bet that after watching the show he’d had the same question I just asked him. Instead of giving a historically accurate attempt at an answer, someone in his orbit must have said to him, “Well, kid, these kikes got too big for their britches and Uncle Adie had to put them in their place. Also, the numbers are exaggerated.”

Wally’s next move, and this was particularly sadistic, had been to let his favorite Hēb in on the exigency of the final solution.

No matter the provenance of his despicable “snobs” theory, once again my gut told me how I should respond and hammered me for resisting.

It was my fault. I had appeased Mitler. I should have fought him when he gave my dad the finger that time when we honked at him. And now, he’d gone too far.

I had let my dad down. Phil Gulman would fight you just for saying the word “Jew” in a less than reverent tone; surely, he would have torn the throat out of some Nazi spawn announcing that the Jews were to blame for the Holocaust.

“They were snobs.”

A good reason to dislike someone? Maybe. A defensible reason to torture and murder them? J-sus Chr-st.
I had to keep this to myself. If I shared this with anyone, they’d ask why I didn’t violently attack him. I did have an answer for that: I’m a coward. As evidenced by the fact that I couldn’t even defend the honor of my people. I said nothing and instantly hated myself. And I stayed friends with him. Like a schmuck.”

Ok so maybe some kids know a lot more by way of asshole parents but I still think that doesn't necessarily they grasp the impact of the words/actions.

Schmuck is SUCH a good word.

There are some people for whom no other word will do.

Also, having lived on the edge of Brookline for years, I wonder where in Boston he grew up and will check him out.

It looks like Peabody, I think?

I totally get that. But imagine the response to any other marginalized group's discomfort being "get some perspective."

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, November 7, 2023 1:56 PM (thirty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

look, i'm a jewish person, and i understand being nervous about the potential increase of anti-semitism in society. but i got a concerned message from my friend about a pro-palestinian march in brooklyn worried about me because he heard that they were "hunting jews." that just plain is not happening.

A relative of mine goes to the private girls’ school in London where some kid painted a swastika and “kill Jews” on the wall recently. On the one hand, you know it’s just some idiot kid, maybe’s not even a serious risk, maybe just a kid confusing righteous rebellion tor something stupider. On the other hand… who knows?

xpost Yeah, I wouldn't lose any sleep over that, either. That's like that day of global jihad, or whatever bullshit was foretold a few weeks ago. Though again, it's a fine line between "hunting Jews" and "targeted for being Jewish." Let's just say I wouldn't show up to that march waving an Israeli flag, or even holding a sign with a star of David on it. Unless it was, you know, depicted being tossed in the trash, that seems to be OK. (joke, sort of)

jewish voice for peace has the star of david in its logo.

i also wouldn't wave an israeli flag at a free palestine rally, idk why that would be so controversial.

Xposts ah ok - think that's north shore maybe near Salem

xpost Yeah, it would be pretty obnoxious. I think my point was that the protest itself should not strike fear into the hearts of Jews, let alone fear of being "hunted." But that it wouldn't take much provocation to invite negative attention.

Hey, good timing, Isaac:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/where-does-antisemitism-come-from

Lemme know if anyone needs it copy and pasted.

You heard about Paul Kessler then? That happened in what is considered a normal suburban enclave in LA.

I don't think anyone should be assaulted for counter protesting.

i also wouldn't wave an israeli flag at a free palestine rally, idk why that would be so controversial.

― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, November 7, 2023 11:46 AM (one minute ago)

Just read this story of an 65 year old counter-prostestor waving an Israeli flag at a Free Palestine demonstration in suburban LA who was involved in a physical altercation and has died as result of a fall (witness details are mixed whether he was struck, or tripped and fell to the ground on his own). The other person (a 50 year old man) involved in the altercation is cooperating with authorities but there is a burst of social media claming this incident was anti-semitic/terrorist (source: my pro-Israel friends IG shared stories).

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-11-06/man-dies-after-fight-at-protest-westlake-village-israel-hamas-war

his discovery, in 2nd grade, so around age 6 or 7, of anti-Semitism, by way of his soon to be ex-best friend, Wally Mitler

Woah, Wally Mitler?

But imagine the response to any other marginalized group's discomfort being "get some perspective."

xp to steve shasta, to be clear, i don't think the guy had it coming, obviously that's a terrible thing to happen. of course it's now going to be used as evidence that none of the hundreds of other worldwide protests were peaceful at all.

gyac, I really appreciate that.

Re: taking pain seriously, I agree that it's rarely as much as is warranted or needed, and regardless, it's not like sympathy can be quantified. But here's another story involving one of my kids that I can offer (I've probably told it before). A few years back some knucklehead scribbled racist and anti-Semitic stuff on a bathroom stall at the high school. There was the expected outrage, protests, eventually an assembly, but none of it ever addressed the specifically anti-Semitic aspect of the incident. My daughter came home that afternoon and basically asked, "what about us?" She's a strong kid, and the school responses have improved some since then, but I know she still carries that hurt with her. It's probably curdled into cynicism, which helps no one.

Re "settlers" -- there were a lot of arguments going around right after October 7 that the people who were killed were not civilians because they were "settlers." (This is not true by any international law standards btw, as they were living within the 1948 borders, not to mention that I would guess few of them were first generation in Israel). In that context, putting up a sign about "settlers" being "the problem" across from a synagogue seems like pretty clear intent to me.

of course it's now going to be used as evidence that none of the hundreds of other worldwide protests were peaceful at all.

― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, November 7, 2023 12:05 PM bookmarkflaglink

I think there is a difficulty in engaging with this kind of claim if there appears to be a willful blind spot or what looks like an oblivious/disingenuous denial that some symbols of hatred are mixed with legitimate political protest. Kind of a mixed-motive situation.

Notice I didn't restrict this to pro Israel or pro Palestine.

Has this happened with other peaceful protests?

We should really have a higher bar than that. Horrific event

I think it's a weird tic to immediately jump to what something will be used to justify after a few minutes have passed. It's ok to just feel for the people who were set on fire for a bit before worrying about hypothetical immigrants who might be deported.

Of course I feel for everyone affected, I don't know why you need to assume the worst of my motives here. I thought that came across in my post. Living in this world where Jews don't feel safe gathering as a group is a fucking nightmare.

The attack happened last night, and Stephen Miller's reaction was part of the article I posted about it this morning, it's hard to ignore. I don't think it's out of bounds to discuss the political narratives forming about this event.

Huge if true

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/503749461_10171477421985304_3066149757595089144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=Nwhx1dV6udYQ7kNvwExLvO8&_nc_oc=AdkjsimyzA49Gk6Z7J1rVIdZleAb0EWiNEI3WRYXaUHf-ttFkGR9pEu3IZTUfT7XEbK0LDXnqqkM2y1H4Dpb_JWM&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&_nc_gid=uX_Rd2gR77BmzNK8JLRJ_A&oh=00_AfIx8VmKkPy_G_I9ya7mFph8tFWUmNgEyIzd9gRFcMk9tQ&oe=68453364

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/03/us/politics/ice-colorado-suspect.html

Trump administration officials have pointed to the attack as proof of what they say were lax immigration policies during the Biden administration.

“Suicidal migration must be fully reversed,” Stephen Miller, the White House deputy chief of staff, said on social media Sunday.

The secretary of state, Marco Rubio, said that his agency would be targeting other foreign nationals for potential revocation of visas.

“In light of yesterday’s horrific attack, all terrorists, their family members, and terrorist sympathizers here on a visa should know that under the Trump Administration we will find you, revoke your visa, and deport you,” he wrote on social media on Monday.

https://forward.com/forward-newsletters/antisemitism-decoded/725401/what-happens-when-you-dehumanize-zionists/

good piece

I think it's a weird tic to immediately jump to what something will be used to justify after a few minutes have passed. It's ok to just feel for the people who were set on fire for a bit before worrying about hypothetical immigrants who might be deported.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, June 2, 2025 4:07 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

President Donald Trump is banning visitors from 12 countries from entering the United States and partially restricting travelers from seven other nations.

The move is the latest in Trump's efforts to secure America's borders after a Colorado terror attack in which an Egyptian national who overstayed his visa allegedly set people alight at a pro-Israel demonstration.

Nationals of Afghanistan, Chad, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Haiti, Iran, Libya, Myanmar, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen will be barred from entering the United States under the new proclamation.

Further to that ban, citizens of Burundi, Cuba, Laos, Sierra Leone, Togo, Turkmenistan and Venezuela will be partially restricted from traveling.

No palestinian groups have advocated for violent acts outside of their area. I am sorry if I am way out of my depth here, but violent acts in the US may be anti-zionist, anti-american support, but they aren’t pro-palestinian unless they respect the lines drawn.

They’re as indefensible as the bombing and attacks on refugee camps, and just as abominable

What do you mean by "palestinian group," like a group actually based in Palestine? The PLO, PIJ and other groups used to target people outside of Israel regularly. Or if you mean pro-Palestinian group outside of Palestine, yes there are certainly groups openly advocating targeting people outside of Israel.

those groups did, themselves, yes. in 2025, unless I am very misinformed, hamas does not. and by the area, I mean israel and neighboring countries. individuals aren’t being encouraged to commit acts of violence.

sorry for being unclear, but I was specifically referring to the violent attacks in DC and Colorado. they're terrible and the acts of American individuals.

The second one was by an Egyptian individual.

As far as pro-Palestinian US groups, I have personally seen calls for violence against American "Zionists" by Unity of Fields (formerly Palestine Action) and CUAD, and if you take "globalize the intifada" as a call for violence, which I do, from groups like SJP. Whether Hamas has openly and directly backed these calls isn't really of much interest to me, it's not like they're some kind of princpled resistance. Their original charter called for the murder of Jews everywhere, and their 2017 revision was a PR move.

it's strange to contrast the reaction to these attacks with the Tree of Life shooting, the deadliest anti-semitic attack on Jews in North America. At the time I was disgusted by how the media and Israel downplayed the motives of the killer, who was radicalized by watching Fox News and Trump's 2018 midterms migrant caravan, and blamed the Jews for helping "invaders".

Dehumanization of minority groups leading to stochastic terrorism is a depressingly familiar phenomenon in the last ten years (South Carolina, the Buffalo supermarket, Parkland, Quebec City mosque etc etc ad nauseam). I wish they were all taken seriously and analyzed on those terms, and I wish there was a way to combat the way people's algorithms get taken over by hate.

I feel very clear however that banning Haitians is not going to do anything to lessen the anti-semitism in the air. It's gross to see this government putting blatant anti-semites into positions of power while claiming to be motivated by protecting Jewish lives.

Trump would find a justification no matter what. Egypt, the attacker's home country, wasn't even on his ban list.

Report: Canada's Holocaust Memorial in Ottawa Defaced Over Gaza War

https://archive.ph/PI196

https://ddzy8vd0qa6pay.archive.ph/PI196/3c8b7e0177e2d964bcafa6428d78f82ea2acf56c.webp

Horrible.

Fucking repulsive shit happening. I’m so sorry.

Yes, absolutely vile.

Disgusting

Are you all saying this because it's the Holocaust monument ? Protest is protest, obviously it's going to target symbols. I only see freedom of expression.

Is it freedom of expression when Nazis deface Jewish cemeteries then?

Can't tell if that's some ill conceived attempt at sarcasm there from naledi.

Indeed, bizarre comment.

There is no sarcasm, and what I find bizarre here is the inconsistency of some posters. We live in the now. Yes, memorials are important, but so is injustice. When you protest, you strike hard. Is it in good taste ? No. Is it efficient ? Yes. If the victims of the Holocaust are turning in their "graves" right now, it's certainly not because a memorial in Ottawa is defaced. If I had to judge, I'd clear the perpetrators of antisemitism / hate, fine them more or less heftily, and send them help clean it.

I can't tell if this vandalism was performed by a Wire fan or an Elton John fan

Is it freedom of expression when Nazis deface Jewish cemeteries then?
― Iza Duffus Hardy (President Keyes), Tuesday, June 10, 2025 11:17 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

You seriously don't see the difference ? What is antisemitism to you ?

Naledi I already flagged your first post but do you honestly not see why this is antisemitic? What is the common denominator between a holocaust memorial and Gaza? Pretty sure “Zionism” is not represented by that monument. what is your literal interpretation of that graffiti? You’re in the antisemitism thread here jfc

please articulate this “difference” that is so obvious to you from P Keyes’ example

Read what the fuck it says. It’s a pro genocide statement not anti

Gladly. There is no common denominator. Only the perpetrator is making the historical link between the Holocaust and the birth of the state of Israel. To me, it's plain that the target is the current state of Israel, not the Holocaust victims. You could dispute this reading - my position would be that anyone doing so in the current political circumstances is speaking in bad faith, but hey, this back and forth has been going on since Oct 24.

The difference is in the finality. Nazis hate. Protesters protest. It's a matter of context.

I read it as anti-genocide, from seeing the image.

"Feed me" in relation to Israel blocking access to humanitarian aid / killing civilians who line up for food. Also the war machine / blood theme. It was much better as anti tbh. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

To me, it's plain that the target is the current state of Israel, not the Holocaust victims.

A holocaust memorial does not represent the current state of Israel. It does represent the experiences of holocaust victims tho. If protest targets symbols it would make sense to target the correct symbols?

I'll be direct since I'm a little mind-boggled at you not seeing it this way. The common denominator is Jews and we Jews have been toiling to avoid a conflation of the genocidal actions of a political state with a religious group that is not represented by that state. When political activism against Israel is directed to institutions, gatherings, monuments, whatever that are connected to Israel only by their shared identity as Jewish, that is antisemitism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you really see the historical connection between the Holocaust and the founding of Israel as being somehow connected to the perpetrator's action here but that is an absurdly generous and intellectual take.

Ditto "Feed Me" as a comment on aid not getting through to Gaza. The memorial has nothing to do with Gaza! It seems obvious that it is a call to strike back against Jews and add to the casualties of the holocaust

It’s Ottawa, deface the Israeli embassy not a memorial to murdered Jews who had nothing to do with Israel’s actions

If someone spraypainted "Fuck Al Qaeda" on a mosque I don't think we'd be having these debates.

what happened on Oct 24

love to read praise of the efficiency of holocaust memorial graffiti

Um the only read of that defacing is "kill more Jews", are you mental Naledi?

Like i get that the people who spray painted that are trying to claim it's anti-genocide, but there are always people in any movement who are really only there to use it as a shield to spew hate at a group of people without consequence.

"Oh I obviously wasn't talking about ALL JEWS, just the ones I personally don't like".

None of that graffiti is pro-Palestine, it's anti-human.

If someone spraypainted "Fuck Al Qaeda" on a mosque I don't think we'd be having these debates.

As wrong as Naledi is I don’t see it as particularly useful to draw parallels between Al-Qaeda and Israel. 9/11 wasn’t a genocide.

Shut up

Um the only read of that defacing is "kill more Jews", are you mental Naledi?

I thought the connection to withholding aid to Palestine was clear and obvious but the same time I see the truth of "When political activism against Israel is directed to institutions, gatherings, monuments, whatever that are connected to Israel only by their shared identity as Jewish, that is antisemitism."

I never even considered the horrifying optics of a memorial to the dead, especially victims of this particular industrialized genocide, demanding someone "feed me."

if a lot of people collectively have an angry and visceral reaction to it, it's clear the message wasn't delivered well. I mean using a red blotchy paint on a Holocaust memorial invokes blood. That's a connection people are going to make.

It's hard to say "well it is blood but it's meant to invoke the dying Palestinians when the location is a memorial to victims of genocide.

Are you all saying this because it's the Holocaust monument ? Protest is protest, obviously it's going to target symbols. I only see freedom of expression.

The antisemitic attack on Manny's Cafe in the Mission in SF last night during the protest, a lefty hangout owned by a Jewish man who has welcomed everyone and who has hosted lots of diverse community meetings - that just makes me feel sad.

I don’t know who the fuck you are but you absolutely don’t have to defend defacing a Holocaust memorial. I’d ask what the fuck is wrong with you, but I don’t actually care.
― from…Peru? (gyac), Tuesday, June 10, 2025 6:40 PM (fifty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, I mean I don't know who this poster is either, but I kind of feel at a loss to even explain it to someone who doesn't understand already what's wrong with it.