rolling “Trump is gonna win” containment thread

I was really just riffing off Milo’s post there, plz to disregard. I’m also not familiar with Wojnarowicz’s take on our brownfield reality but that touches on a major issue of distinction between Biden and Trump — while Joe has made some serious missteps on climate policy, he’s far from being the mouthpiece for the worst industry-backed disinformation that Trump is. Our environment in America is doing well for the most part now apart from our ridiculous carbon footprint.

I mean sure if you take mainstream centrist discourse as crucial then I could see it but who really does now aside from Alfred?

how do you mean? If you mean "I read it" or "I experience it," then sure. I consider myself lib-leftist and way to the left of many local Dem colleagues. I agree with Wojnarowicz: many of our choices are false ones. But between Biden and Trump I see a real choice however much Biden, who wasn't even my third choice in 2020, disgusts me

and if "centrist" you mean "the NYT framing of stories that affect the lives of real people not demographic categories" fuck that shit.

fwiw Alfred i don’t see you as a centist lol

I agree with Wojnarowicz: many of our choices are false ones.

No human society larger than a village has ever conducted itself by the principles ILX leftists claim they want to see implemented on a national level. It's pointless to even debate it. It's like saying "I'll vote for whichever candidate can grant me magical powers." So yeah: false choices. Rapacious but temperable capitalism vs. the amorphous "wouldn't it be nice" daydreams of hippies who refuse to accept the descriptor.

I'd rather be that than a cynical guy living in Montana, but ymmv obv ;-)

Seriously, point me to one country anywhere on Earth that's doing what you want America to do. Show your work, that's all I ask.

Anyway, I'm not a cynic. I am filled with joy. Life is good.

I'm to the center of you Alfred, that much I do know ;)

all i want for christmas is a 'life is bad' sticker, in that whimsical font. and maybe a 'do bad' sticker, in that clean sans-serif font.

Seriously, point me to one country anywhere on Earth that's doing what you want America to do. Show your work, that's all I ask.

― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Monday, November 6, 2023 5:35 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

"country" is part of the problem here. there are some interesting accounts of northeastern native american social organization in graeber and wengrow's dawn of everything - the authors show how these accounts gave rise to the concept of equality in classical liberalism.

there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested. but yeah they don't really tend to happen in congruence with a "country" for some reason...

Come to think of it, I would probably vote for a candidate who could grant me magical powers.

That's what the vaccines are for.

I would probably vote for a candidate who could grant me magical powers.

You might want to get that in writing.

I'm not sure the poster who openly said they don't care about the american genocides is going to be persuaded by native american social organisation xps

(xp) No presidential candidate from the Natural Law Party this election?

the real question on everyone's mind is will Bob Avakian endorse Biden again this time round?

there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested
there are many accounts of more or less successful anarchist social movements out there if one is interested

https://www.ranzey.com/generators/bart/bartfront.png

Aw, it didn't work. Anyway, that was my first thought when I saw that wall of text.

We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive committee for the week.

they don't really tend to happen in congruence with a "country" for some reason...

perhaps because participation in a "country" is purely circumstantial and involuntary in the vast majority of cases, whereas participation in anarchist social movements is almost certain to be voluntary. just a thought.

it's amazing how aggressively incurious nationalists can be xps

did you know we survived for millions of years without the nation state

I hear people are saying that.

my darling I
I can't get enough of your posts babe

xposts to......ehh make your own pick as to where this slots in

did you know we survived for millions of years without the nation state

A little misleading, tho. Did we survive millions of years without concepts of territory, kinship-based social organization and competition for resources?

depends how you define territory specifically but the other things sure. they're not the nation state. how is it misleading?

Could you point me to some million year old contemporary sources, plz?

wow you got me

"Survived" is sort of the crux tho, ain't it?

how is it misleading?

Just that nation states are essentially evolutionary outgrowths of those things: organized ways to protect territory, population and resources.

the point isn't that ancient people were all perfectly anarchist/communist in the modern sense the point is the state didn't exist for a long time and it took an unfathomable amount of violence for people to start accepting it as natural and good

nation states are outgrowths of aristocratic / capitalist class warfare and genocide the notion that they represent or are connected to or are some primordial community is pure ideology (and proto-fascist)

"Show me where the ideal you're striving toward is being practiced now" is too stupid a question to demand even the usual back and forth about the merits of anarchism/socialism/leftism/etc..

Shit happens that hasn't happened before. Slaves revolt and throw off a European colonial power, a nation-state founded on chattel slavery as an institution abolishes it, etc.. There were no communist states in 1916 but that didn't stop the Bolshies.

xpost

Eh. Violence pre-existed the "state." Part of the impetus for the establishment of the state is to control/reduce violence. In contemporary times, the occasional breakdown of a state tends to be accompanied by more rather than less violence.

Which is just to say that I don't think nation states per se are the root of many of our challenges, even though obviously they lend themselves to actions and abuses on much greater scales than was possible in the pre-state world.

Also, if you DO think we need to solve the problem of nation states by replacing them with something else, is that more in the direction of One World Government, or a zillion autonomous collectives? And if the latter, what do you do the first time one collective collectively decides to take a smaller collective's cattle or whatever?

I think there's a difference between believing modern nations are a natural primordial state of being and believing that the US isn't in a position to transition peacefully into an anarchist collective.

Like, yes, a major revolution/transformation can happen, but it's probably a mistake to imagine that it will be all happy times when it does.

it won't but the point is it can happen

anything can happen, what actually will happen is probably not anything that we can fully wrap our heads around based on the lives we've led so far

uncomfortably reminiscent of "we had to destroy the village in order to save it"

I don't pretend to know the answer but a union of workers' soviets isn't a fundamentally bad idea

in practice though...

if we are fretting about how our bills went up in the Biden years, we are probably not ready for what that would look like after the US anarcho-communist revolution

The potable water wars and climate refugee crisis are coming either way, the question is really whether the response is more or less humane. The disarray of the anarcho-communist revolution might not look so bad compared to the exterminism of American capitalism in full reaction.

most revolutions arrive with a wave of exterminism of their own

Hobbes to thread.

Cue Mark Twain

most revolutions arrive with a wave of exterminism of their own

"My neighbor killed my family with an axe and stole my last two jugs of water, but at least he wasn't a *spits bloody tooth on ground* capitalist!"

seems kind of futile to speculate on the best form of chaos under a societal collapse due to climate catastrophe, but I am at least curious about how that will impact the 2024 presidential election

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvN3c35VcAATraz?format=png

oh shit, pwned