Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events: Oct 23 on

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going to need a source for that (not that I disbelieve it, but would like to see it myself)

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Saturday, 11 November 2023 22:20 (one year ago)

Best I can do without linking to Twitter:

https://mobile-mako-co-il.translate.goog/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-0a35938daafbb81026.htm?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

as a lyricist he is from hell (flamboyant goon tie included), Saturday, 11 November 2023 22:23 (one year ago)

that's weird I get a "can't link to this website" message from that link

twitter embeds are fine. its links to giant threads on twitter that are an issue (IMO).

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Saturday, 11 November 2023 22:26 (one year ago)

For any Hebrew speakers...

"We are now actually rolling out the Gaza Nakba," says Avi Dichter, Israel's Minister for Agriculture and former head of Shin Bet.

pic.twitter.com/idUA5lnnmP

— Hanno Hauenstein (@hahauenstein) November 11, 2023

The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Saturday, 11 November 2023 22:32 (one year ago)

fuck

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 11 November 2023 22:41 (one year ago)

oh man

horseshoe, Saturday, 11 November 2023 22:45 (one year ago)

I didn't know who he was but apparently he has a history of invoking this idea.

I'm at a loss right now. I'm sorry.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 11 November 2023 22:49 (one year ago)

Similar but vaguer statements from Netanyahu in a press conf today, refuses to cede Gaza to PA

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/benjamin-netanyahu/article-772829

as a lyricist he is from hell (flamboyant goon tie included), Saturday, 11 November 2023 23:02 (one year ago)

Not sure why anyone would be surprised by this tbh.

The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Saturday, 11 November 2023 23:38 (one year ago)

There is not going to be an expulsion from Gaza, Dichter is full of shit, what a time for Israel to have a government of buffoons, maniacs, and crooks

Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 11 November 2023 23:45 (one year ago)

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu pushed back Saturday against growing international calls for a cease-fire, saying Israel’s battle to crush Gaza’s ruling Hamas militants will continue with “full force.”

A cease-fire would be possible only if all 239 hostages held by militants in Gaza are released, Netanyahu said in a televised address.

The Israeli leader also insisted that after the war, now entering its sixth week, Gaza would be demilitarized and Israel would retain security control there. Asked what he meant by security control, Netanyahu said Israeli forces must be able to enter Gaza freely to hunt down militants.

He also rejected the idea that the Palestinian Authority, which currently administers autonomous areas in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, would at some stage control Gaza. Both positions run counter to post-war scenarios floated by Israel’s closest ally, the United States. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has said the U.S. opposes an Israeli reoccupation of Gaza and envisions a unified Palestinian government in both Gaza and the West Bank at some stage as a step toward Palestinian statehood.

For now, Netanyahu said, “the war against (Hamas) is advancing with full force, and it has one goal, to win. There is no alternative to victory.”

Pressure was growing on Israel after frantic doctors at Gaza’s largest hospital said the last generator had run out of fuel, causing the death of a premature baby, another child in an incubator and four other patients. Thousands of war-wounded, medical staff and displaced civilians were caught in the fighting.
In recent days, fighting near Shifa and other hospitals in northern Gaza has intensified and supplies have run out. The Israeli military has alleged, without providing evidence, that Hamas has established command posts in and underneath hospitals, using civilians as human shields. Medical staff at Shifa have denied such claims and accused Israel of harming civilians with indiscriminate attacks.

Shifa hospital director Mohammed Abu Selmia said the facility lost power Saturday.

“Medical devices stopped. Patients, especially those in intensive care, started to die,” he said by phone, with gunfire and explosions in the background. He said Israeli troops were “shooting at anyone outside or inside the hospital” and prevented movement between buildings.

Israel’s military confirmed clashes outside the hospital, but Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari denied Shifa was under siege. He said troops will assist Sunday in moving babies treated there and said “we are speaking directly and regularly” with hospital staff.

Amos Yadlin, a former head of Israeli military intelligence, told broadcaster Channel 12 that as Israel aims to crush Hamas, taking control of the hospitals would be key but require “a lot of tactical creativity,” without hurting patients, other civilians and Israeli hostages.

Six patients died at Shifa after the generator shut down, including the two children, spokesmen with the Hamas-run Health Ministry said.

The “unbearably desperate situation” at Shifa must stop now, the International Committee of the Red Cross director general, Robert Mardini, said on social media. U.N. humanitarian chief Martin Griffiths posted that “there can be no justification for acts of war in health care facilities.”

Elsewhere, the Palestinian Red Crescent said Israeli tanks were 20 meters (65 feet) from al-Quds hospital in Gaza City, causing “a state of extreme panic and fear” among the 14,000 displaced people sheltering there.

Israel’s military released footage which it said showed tanks operating in Gaza. The images showed shattered buildings, some on fire, and destroyed streets empty of anyone but troops.

A 57-nation gathering of Muslim and Arab leaders in Saudi Arabia called in their communique for an end to the war in Gaza and the immediate delivery of humanitarian aid. They also called on the International Court of Justice, a U.N. organ, to open an investigation into Israel’s attacks, saying the war “cannot be called self-defense and cannot be justified under any means.”

Netanyahu has said the responsibility for any harm to civilians lies with Hamas, which denied it was preventing people in Gaza City from fleeing.

The spokesman of the Hamas military wing said militants were ambushing Israeli troops and vowed that Israel will face a long battle. The Qassam Brigades spokesman, who goes by Abu Obaida, acknowledged in audio aired on Al-Jazeera that the fight is disproportionate “but it is terrifying the strongest force in the region.”

...Palestinian civilians and rights advocates have pushed back against Israel’s portrayal of the southern evacuation zones as “relatively safe.” They note that Israeli bombardment has continued across Gaza, including airstrikes in the south that Israel says target Hamas leaders but that have also killed women and children.

Demonstrations and outrage continued. Police said 300,000 Palestinian supporters marched peacefully in London, the largest such event there since the war started. Right-wing counterprotesters clashed with police.

FEAR GROWS INSIDE SHIFA
“Shelling and explosions never stopped,” said Islam Mattar, one of thousands sheltering at Shifa. “Children here are terrified from the constant sound of explosions.”

The Health Ministry told Al Jazeera there were still 1,500 patients at Shifa, along with 1,500 medical personnel and between 15,000 and 20,000 people seeking shelter.

Thousands have fled Shifa and other hospitals that have come under attack, but physicians said it’s impossible for everyone to get out.

"We cannot evacuate ourselves and (leave) these people inside,” a Doctors Without Borders surgeon at Shifa, Mohammed Obeid, was quoted as saying by the organization.

CASUALTIES RISE
More than 11,070 Palestinians, two-thirds of them women and minors, have been killed since the war began, according to the Health Ministry in Gaza, which does not differentiate between civilian and militant deaths. About 2,700 people have been reported missing and are thought to be possibly trapped or dead under the rubble.

At least 1,200 people have been killed in Israel, mainly in the initial Hamas attack, Israeli officials say. The military on Saturday confirmed the deaths of five reserve soldiers; 46 Israeli soldiers have been killed in Gaza since the ground offensive began.

Nearly 240 people abducted by Hamas from Israel remain captive.

About 250,000 Israelis have been forced to evacuate from communities near Gaza and along the northern border with Lebanon, where Israeli forces and Hezbollah militants have traded fire repeatedly.

“Hezbollah is dragging Lebanon into a possible war,” Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said after meeting with soldiers stationed along the border.
Mroue reported from Beirut. Associated Press writers Julia Frankel in Jerusalem, Samy Magdy in Cairo and Baraa Anwer in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, contributed to this report.

dow, Saturday, 11 November 2023 23:46 (one year ago)

My impression is that neither Israel, nor Hamas, nor the PA want the PA to govern Gaza

Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 11 November 2023 23:48 (one year ago)

the usa & eu have recently been pushing the idea of the pa governing gaza in the aftermath of the war. the pa has actually said they're open to it if it means a proper two-state solution that the usa forces israel to abide by, but that still seems pretty unlikely.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/world/middleeast/palestinian-authority-gaza.html

of course, israel absolutely doesn't want the pa to govern gaza because it would strengthen claims of palestinian statehood, but they also don't want the divide & conquer status quo of hamas staying in control now that hamas have proven to be more of a threat than they thought, so there aren't really any clearly good options for them and they're just throwing all sorts of ideas at the wall.

ufo, Sunday, 12 November 2023 00:58 (one year ago)

Except the one that, yknow, would actually show some level of humanity

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 12 November 2023 03:26 (one year ago)

Nimrod Flaschenberg
@Nimrod_Flash
·
8h
Netanyahu announced this evening that he will not allow the PA to take control of Gaza. This means Israel's official plan is to reoccupy Gaza indefinitely.
It's time for the US, Germany, and other backers of Israel to say this will not pass. It's quite simple.

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 12 November 2023 07:58 (one year ago)

the usa has already publicly rejected the idea of israel reoccupying gaza and have continued to suggest that the palestinian authority should end up in charge. reportedly they've also been privately floating other ideas like having israel's arab neighbours be responsible for it (which none of them are interested in), or have some un peacekeeping force in charge of it (which israel has also rejected). there are pretty public differences there already

ufo, Sunday, 12 November 2023 08:51 (one year ago)

Yes, moves are being made in the background...and here Macron has come out in support of the ceasefire, which is lol given he was banning protests a couple of weeks ago.

---
Waleed Shahid 🪬
@_waleedshahid
MACRON calls for a ceasefire on BBC: “I think the only solution we have is a ceasefire because it's impossible to explain we want to fight against terrorism by killing innocent people"

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 12 November 2023 10:23 (one year ago)

Fractures in Europe are welcome.

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 12 November 2023 10:24 (one year ago)

the usa has already publicly rejected the idea of israel reoccupying gaza and have continued to suggest that the palestinian authority should end up in charge. reportedly they've also been privately floating other ideas like having israel's arab neighbours be responsible for it (which none of them are interested in), or have some un peacekeeping force in charge of it (which israel has also rejected). there are pretty public differences there already

Israel to the USA: "Suck It"

The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Sunday, 12 November 2023 12:30 (one year ago)

How would you describe the settler movement?

I see the settler movement today as a direct continuation of the settler movement of a hundred and twenty, thirty, forty years ago. I see it as a chapter in the history of Zionism, and we are in one of those chapters of modern Zionism. Settlement is the way to return to Zion.

You said, "Settlement is the way to return to Zion”?

Yes. It’s the end of the dispersion and the beginning of the revival of the Jewish nation in this homeland.

What are the borders of that Jewish nation?

The borders of the homeland of the Jews are the Euphrates in the east and the Nile in the southwest. [This would include the territory of multiple Middle Eastern countries as well as the territory that Israel controls today.]

There’s a Palestinian slogan that has become very controversial: “From the river to the sea,” which means from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. It’s controversial because it would include all the land that currently makes up Israel. But you’re saying from the river to the—

What is controversial?

Palestinians sometimes use the slogan “From the river to the sea.” But what you’re saying is that from the river to the Nile is the Jewish homeland, correct?

Of course. If someone decides to invent a new religion today, who will decide the rules? The first nation that got the word from God, the promise from God—the first nation is the one who has the right to it. The others that follow—Christianity and Islam, with their demands, with their perceptions—they’re imitating what existed already. So, why in Israel? They could be anywhere in the world. They came after us, in the double sense of the world.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extreme-ambitions-of-west-bank-settlers

stuffing your suit pockets with cold, stale chicken tende (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 12 November 2023 12:51 (one year ago)

Posted that yesterday. Knew quite a bit of the mindset at a high level but not the bit I pulled out, where she said the land they think is theirs stretches even further into the middle east.

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 12 November 2023 17:32 (one year ago)

manifest destiny iirc

horseshoe, Sunday, 12 November 2023 17:33 (one year ago)

when your defenses are "god gave this to us" is starts to become very difficult to even have a legitimate conversation about the merits

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Sunday, 12 November 2023 17:45 (one year ago)

The latest updates on hospital strikes that I've seen include even more detailed eyewitness accounts, which I won't paste. Netenyahu claims that some evacuations have taken place, so if he can send troops in to that, why can't they go further, in search of the Hamas infrastructure, supposedly concealed in Al-Shifa hospital, for instance: with orders to be selective, do not shoot or bomb patients etc. Is it not safe enough 'til the whole Strip is Carthage?

dow, Sunday, 12 November 2023 17:51 (one year ago)

Some people might still be caught in crossfire (although once again I think of the tunnels, and that a lot of Hamas won't be hanging around for IDF approach). But even if that happened, it wouldn't be as bad as the bombings---

dow, Sunday, 12 November 2023 17:55 (one year ago)

Posted that yesterday. Knew quite a bit of the mindset at a high level but not the bit I pulled out, where she said the land they think is theirs stretches even further into the middle east.

― xyzzzz__, Sunday, November 12, 2023 12:32 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think this is still a pretty fringe view. It's also kind of hard to see how anyone thinks Israel could achieve conquest of greater parts of the middle east with an army and population its size.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 12 November 2023 19:08 (one year ago)

I mean I'm not sure I'm exactly clear on how much of the Nile and how much of the Euphrates would form the boundary, but aren't we talking about land 10, 15, 20x the size of Israel?

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 12 November 2023 19:11 (one year ago)

It’s obviously not a realistic goal to go from the Nile to the Euphrates, but why wouldn’t someone with that mindset take the W in ethnically cleansing Gaza?

deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 12 November 2023 19:27 (one year ago)

what user dow is referring to in things they “won’t paste” are live images of IDF soldiers shooting patients who aren’t doing anything. just abominable images.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 12 November 2023 19:37 (one year ago)

i've seen people adamantly stating that the shootings outside the hospital are being done by Hamas and not the IDF (which I assume is not true if there are photos of the IDF doing exactly that)

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Sunday, 12 November 2023 19:48 (one year ago)

i feel like Occam’s razor comes into effect at a certain point with these acts. I remember my father insisting to me in that Indian Hindu agents had beheaded Daniel Pearl and framed Pakistanis because “Muslims wouldn’t do that” but…

horseshoe, Sunday, 12 November 2023 19:54 (one year ago)

I think this is still a pretty fringe view. It's also kind of hard to see how anyone thinks Israel could achieve conquest of greater parts of the middle east with an army and population its size.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 12 November 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Sure, it was eye opening, and you wonder how much of the public could be radicalised to her views.

One would hope it is fringe, except the person interviewed was happy with Netanyahu (though there were remarks about him not going far enough), and...I think there are people in the Israeli cabinet who appear to share her viewpoints (?) going by what I've seen.

All too close for comfort.

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 12 November 2023 20:06 (one year ago)

"you wonder how much of the public could be radicalised to her views."

I mean, I don't really wonder that. I guess I know too many Israelis. As for support for continued settlement of the West Bank, for which I think there is a constituency, the problem is as much one of lack of strong opposition as outright support. A lot of people either oppose but don't make it a central factor in their lives -- sort of like an American who might oppose police brutality but isn't about to go out and do anything about it, i.e. a huge % of Americans -- or else weakly support the settlements because they just feel jaded about the peace process and/or afraid (as opposed to for strong religious reasons).

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 12 November 2023 21:17 (one year ago)

tables, the eyewitness details from hospitals that I was referring to are not primarily images in this dispatch, but what the doctor says in the second graf (lots more stuff in here too). Brace yourselves before reading:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/11/middleeast/gaza-al-shifa-hospital-israel-attack/index.html

dow, Sunday, 12 November 2023 21:50 (one year ago)

thanks dow

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 12 November 2023 22:12 (one year ago)

xps the lack of strong opposition to the settlements is just the result of netanyahu's whole political project over the past few decades - trying to achieve security without peace. political support for the peace process has collapsed over the past ~15 years and the parties that even remotely care about it at all have become increasingly marginal.

I think there are people in the Israeli cabinet who appear to share her viewpoints (?) going by what I've seen.

the parties that are that far-right have 14 seats in the knesset and are part of the current government yeah.

ufo, Sunday, 12 November 2023 23:06 (one year ago)

I doubt even most settlers think Israel to the Euphrates and Nile. It’s extremely fringe and I don’t think there will ever be significant Israeli support for a forever war to overextend Israel in conquest. It’s batshit.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 13 November 2023 02:14 (one year ago)

Netenyahu claims that some evacuations have taken place
100 babies, the last I heard---how will they re-connect with their parents---?

dow, Monday, 13 November 2023 03:08 (one year ago)

Ramy Abdu| رامي عبده
@RamAbdu
·
1h
Israel has murdered another Palestinian journalist.

Ahmad Fotaima lost his life in an Israeli sniper attack

xyzzzz__, Monday, 13 November 2023 11:52 (one year ago)

Dr. Mustafa Elmasri
@Gaza_Psych
·
25m
For those who started their guilt stricken grief for failing us, thank you for everything but please step aside we still have work to do, and we are still alive btw

xyzzzz__, Monday, 13 November 2023 15:12 (one year ago)

Does anyone know anything about PAMA, the org in that CNN article? I would like to donate. The frustration I feel is not understanding whether/how/how much aid can even get into Gaza right now but at least maybe it can enter in the near future?

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 13 November 2023 15:49 (one year ago)

I am under the impression this organization is very good: https://www.anera.org/

Their FAQs are transparent about what they can and can't do to get aid in

symsymsym, Monday, 13 November 2023 16:08 (one year ago)

Jewish Currents
@JewishCurrents
This past weekend, Dr. Hammam Alloh—a nephrologist at Al-Shifa Hospital, who contributed a dispatch about conditions in Gaza two weeks ago—was killed in his home by an Israeli airstrike.

Read his words here:
https://jewishcurrents.org/we-have-lost-the-ability-to-provide-true-care

xyzzzz__, Monday, 13 November 2023 16:26 (one year ago)

UNHCR has been my go-to charity for years, but I would welcome being corrected.

don't let days go by, Listerine (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 13 November 2023 19:52 (one year ago)

From a thread on today's events:

‏تمار 🌴 Тама́р 🌴 תמר
@tamars
IDF Golani brigade took over the parliamentary chamber in Gaza and brandish Israeli flags

xyzzzz__, Monday, 13 November 2023 20:45 (one year ago)

Dr. Abusalama
@ShahdAbusalama
Israel has just committed another massacre against Jabalia Refugee Camp, now hosting displaced families from all over the north. Initial reports suggest at least 150 people slaughtered. They bombed a whole residential square that once was full of life, again! #CeasefireNowInGaza

xyzzzz__, Monday, 13 November 2023 20:48 (one year ago)

And here is a piece collating testimonies from Gaza.

https://www.nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/can-you-tell-us-why-this-is-happening/

xyzzzz__, Monday, 13 November 2023 20:50 (one year ago)

Gil Dikman's relatives were kidnapped and murdered by Hamas on October 7th.

Today he went to the Knesset and heard Likud MK
@GalitDistel
call for Gaza to be annihilated.

Please listen to his response

---

https://x.com/BenzionSanders/status/1724052701187584087?s=20

xyzzzz__, Monday, 13 November 2023 21:21 (one year ago)

rip vivian silver

74-year-old Vivian Silver, the Israeli peace activist and leader of Women Wage Peace, was thought kidnapped in Gaza. They only just identified her body, five weeks after she was killed. Read about her life's work, and may her memory be a blessing to all: https://t.co/ZbprTjBEOe https://t.co/y0AphsexF0

— Yair Rosenberg (@Yair_Rosenberg) November 13, 2023

is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Monday, 13 November 2023 23:11 (one year ago)

aw jeez. RIP

symsymsym, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 00:01 (one year ago)


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