Israel/Palestine post 10/7 - follow-on events/thoughts as relate to other countries

If you all read the rest of that tweet that xyzzz posted, you will find a Hasbara-addled woman who believes everything Israeli propaganda says and is an obvious Islamophobe. She is concern trolling and a fascist.

It's generally pretty obvious why it's being used when you examine the overall attitudes of the people who are using it.

I can agree with that. What I'm less convinced by is the idea that anyone that mentions the hostages is in the same camp, up to 100% of the time.

Hostages are important and they seem to have been forgotten as Israel racks up the daily death and destruction (over 100 deaths a day is what I see), as have the thousands of Palestinians in Israeli jails.

So I think a call for a ceasefire is pretty much the priority, statement-wise. All else follows.

If you all read the rest of that tweet that xyzzz posted, you will find a Hasbara-addled woman who believes everything Israeli propaganda says and is an obvious Islamophobe. She is concern trolling and a fascist.

I want the release of the hostages too, fwiw— I agree with anvil in this way. If the message is “we must have a ceasefire, a release of hostage taken by Hamas, and a release of prisoners taken by Israel since 10/7,” then let’s go.

But if the response to call for ceasefire and a plea to avoid humanitarian catastrophe is “what about the hostages” then that is an obvious concern troll, and I stand by my characterization

To be clear here, I don't think anyone should be required to say anything about the hostages, any more than they should be asked to condemn Hamas, or to say anything at all

but if they do say something about releasing the hostages, or they do condemn Hamas, I think there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever,

yeah sorry didn’t mean to put words in yr mouth there, anvil

all good!

"I don’t read any of the tweets xyzzzz__ posts"

Yet you complain about them? Normal.

Nah I’m really just referring to not reading anything outside the preview. I’m not going digging into tweets that are posted unless I recognise the account.

Fair enough

I want the release of the hostages too, fwiw— I agree with anvil in this way. If the message is “we must have a ceasefire, a release of hostage taken by Hamas, and a release of prisoners taken by Israel since 10/7,” then let’s go.

This is what I'm arguing for. It pre-empts the concern trolling in tweets like the one posted at no cost to the cause. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I haven't found an issue with that myself. The empathy gap is your problem, not other people’s.

Gyac you've not heard concern for the hostages being used as an argument for supporting Israeli strikes on Gaza?? This surprises me. I certainly have, it is a disingenous argument but it is a talking point.

Yeah, no, when I mentioned the empathy gap, that’s what I meant. I don’t have an issue feeling sympathetic towards the hostages and their suffering just because their government are cunts.

Seriously fellas. You absolutely don’t have to pretend that the hostage situation is the biggest source of human suffering in this conflict and repeat Kahanist talking points, but they are civilians who didn’t do anything to be separated from their families for three months. Sure there’s some concern trolling over them, by people doing nothing to ameliorate their suffering - or any suffering - but like…they are in a shit situation through no fault of their own. I mean I guess you can throw a tantrum every time they’re mentioned, or you can move on.

But what provoked this discussion wasn't people throwing a tantrum because hostages were mentioned, it's the reverse?

And again, I do think it would've been both morally correct and productive to include mention of the hostages. I find the weaponization of their plight sickening and don't see why we should accept its binary. But I also don't think pointing out this weaponizing as milo did attests to any kind of empathy gap.

But what provoked this discussion wasn't people throwing a tantrum because hostages were mentioned, it's the reverse?

And again, I do think it would've been both morally correct and productive to include mention of the hostages. I find the weaponization of their plight sickening and don't see why we should accept its binary. But I also don't think pointing out this weaponizing as milo did attests to any kind of empathy gap.

I don't understand what view you think I think you hold?

I agree the tweet xyzz posted is by a clearly deranged person but I don't think the backlash to the BMA not mentionig hostages amounts only to deranged people on twitter. Maybe it does!

It is worth pointing out that Israel doesn’t give a shit about the hostages at this point, either, except inasmuch as the state can utilize their plight to punish Palestinians.

"I agree the tweet xyzz posted is by a clearly deranged person"

She's a Prof at Imperial College

XP but that doesn't mean that no-one should be concerned about them - and if that is not what you mean, then why is it worth pointing that out?

It is worth pointing out that Israel doesn’t give a shit about the hostages at this point, either, except inasmuch as the state can utilize their plight to punish Palestinians.

It is worth pointing out that Israel doesn’t give a shit about the hostages at this point, either, except inasmuch as the state can utilize their plight to punish Palestinians.

"I do find this thread pretty stressful and the shit going on isn’t a game"

If this was an utterly random person I wouldn't have pasted this here. I am not stupid enough to post "every piece of trash" I come across, but unfortunately you are going to come up across some stressful material if you in any way decide to follow developments.

XP but that doesn't mean that no-one should be concerned about them - and if that is not what you mean, then why is it worth pointing that out?

In an Israeli context, concern about the hostages is now associated with support for ceasefire and demands that Netanyahu resign.

but is it bad if someone does?

I didn’t say that at all. This is about Liz Lightstone (and all the other Lightstones) explicitly using ‘but they didn’t mention the hostages’ as an excuse to attack an organization’s criticism of ongoing genocide.

Nor can one dismiss her as some random crank (which I’m sure she is, but she’s also representative)- “why don’t you also condemn thing X” is page 1 in the playbook for responding to anti-war/imperialism statements.

Those of you who’d answer back to a post like that could always go for what I’d say, which is “what are you doing to help those poor hostages? Using them as emotional blackmail in fights with strangers on the internet isn’t the rhetorical win you think it is!”

She's a Prof at Imperial College

― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 16 January

In nephrology! I am sure most experts in Middle Eastern politics wouldn't feel confident in expressing expert opinion in diseases of the kidney, so why should experts in diseases of the kidney feel their opinions on Middle Eastern politics have any kind of audience?

i have no idea who liz lightstone is, and I assume almost no one else here does either

xp: Again, this is a Medical researcher at a top educational establishment, who has a public profile, commenting on a statement by the British Medical Association.

Most of us don't know most people. but I'm distinguishing between the above and someone who doesn't have a public profile (basically you or me).

According to this we are down to the last hospital.

https:/twitter.com/fatimasal82/status/1747421178036396280?s=20

Dunno if this is the thread for it but... My partner and one of our friends from church were arrested yesterday during this action. I regret that I couldn't be there with them, but I feel so proud and inspired.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2K5PGtxew6/

great stuff

Great article: https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/the-fred-dube-affair/

At the State University of New York at Stony Brook, the syllabus for an Africana Studies summer course entitled The Politics of Race includes prompts for students in need of term paper guidance. The twelve optional topics are deliberately provocative: “Can a Christian or a democrat be a racist?” “I.Q. tests are a means for blaming the victim.” “Zionism is as much racism as Nazism was racism.” A historian visiting from Israel’s Ben-Gurion University complains that the latter topic, thus the course, thus the professor are examples of anti-Semitism. An uproar ensues.

This year is 1983. The professor under scrutiny is Ernest Frederick Dube, the South African anti-apartheid activist, Robben Island survivor, Cornell-trained psychologist, husband, and father. Branded as an anti-Semite, he will be gone from the Stony Brook campus by 1987.

BREAKING: David Lammy's speech has been interrupted by pro-Palestinian protestershttps://t.co/lt9tVuJ1rq

📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233 and YouTube pic.twitter.com/ZyXojOQnK2

— Sky News (@SkyNews) January 20, 2024

The only way to fight fascism.

Einhundertsechzigtausend! Hamburg ❤️ toppt alles. pic.twitter.com/5MQu20BkEN

— Zentrum für Politische Schönheit (@politicalbeauty) January 19, 2024

Fifth Iran Revolutionary Guards member killed in Israeli strike in Syria
A fifth member of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards has been killed in an Israeli missile strike in Syria on Saturday, Reuters reports.

According to a Revolutionary Guards statement, Amin Samadi “fell as a martyr after being among those wounded in today’s Zionist terrorist crime in Damascus”.

Earlier on Saturday, the Revolutionary Guards confirmed that four guards were killed in the attack.

Real WWIII vibes from all of this. You don't even need Trump at the White House!

Every university in Gaza destroyed. 94 academic colleagues (many more under rubble), thousands of students dead.

We are publishing papers posthumously. Our collective work destroyed. The plans for my guest lectures to students are ghosts in my diary https://t.co/qJWonITMhW

— Alison Phipps አሊሰን 🧡 (@alison_phipps) January 21, 2024

https://x.com/y_salahiddeen/status/1748790793072992479

xp I'm a little shocked I haven't been able to find much mainstream reporting on the demolition of Israa University. A line in a BBC report, NPR posted about it on Insta (?!), but not much else. From what I can gather, the Israeli military used the campus as a base for the last 70 days before destroying it, making it an act of cultural genocide (imo). Most reports mention the uni housed ~3,000 artifacts, but I've seen reports that Israel looted them before destroying the campus and reports that claim they were destroyed along with the buildings.

kudos to this AP reporter at the US State Dept though:

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/1/19/journalist-questions-bombing-of-gaza-university

Yup, it's good questioning.

xp I'm a little shocked I haven't been able to find much mainstream reporting on the demolition of Israa University. A line in a BBC report, NPR posted about it on Insta (?!), but not much else. From what I can gather, the Israeli military used the campus as a base for the last 70 days before destroying it, making it an act of cultural genocide (imo). Most reports mention the uni housed ~3,000 artifacts, but I've seen reports that Israel looted them before destroying the campus and reports that claim they were destroyed along with the buildings.

kudos to this AP reporter at the US State Dept though:

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/1/19/journalist-questions-bombing-of-gaza-university🕸

JERUSALEM, Jan 21 (Reuters) - Israel's cabinet approved a plan for frozen tax funds earmarked for the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to be held by Norway instead of transferred to the Palestinian Authority (PA), officials said on Sunday.
Under interim peace accords reached in the 1990s, Israel's finance ministry collects tax on behalf of the Palestinians and makes monthly transfers to the Western-backed PA, which exercises limited self-rule in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
But there have been constant wrangles over the arrangement, including Israel's demand that the funds do not reach Hamas, which it and most of the West deem a terrorist group.
Hamas seized control of Gaza from the Western-backed PA in 2007 after a brief civil war, and two years after Israel withdrew settlers and military forces. Despite the Hamas takeover, many PA public sector employees in Gaza kept their jobs and continued to be paid with transferred tax revenues.
Israel is now at war in Gaza to wipe out Hamas after a cross-border attack by militants of the Palestinian Islamist movement on Oct. 7.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the cabinet decision on the tax funds was supported by Norway and the United States, which will be a guarantor that the framework holds.
Netanyahu's offices said the money, or any equivalent, will not be transferred "in any situation, except with the approval of the Israeli finance minister, and also not through a third party."
The Palestine Liberation Organisation said on Sunday it wanted the money in full and would not accept conditions that prevent it from paying its staff, including in Gaza.
"Any deductions from our financial rights or any conditions imposed by Israel that prevent the PA from paying our people in the Gaza Strip are rejected by us," Hussein Al-Sheikh, secretary general of the executive committee of the PLO, said on social media platform X.
A spokesman for Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, who heads a far-right, pro-settlement party, confirmed that Norway would hold the funds under the arrangement.
"Not one shekel will go to Gaza," said Smotrich, who has long been opposed to transferring funds to the PA.
Reporting by Steven Scheer, Ari Rabinovitch and Ali Sawafta; editing by Mark Heinrich.

taxation without representation

Palestinians in Gaza are eating loaves of bread made from rabbit feed. Some are not posting the photos themselves out of a sense of pride and dignity when really it is the rest of us who need to be ashamed at how this famine has been allowed to go on like this https://t.co/HurhcGRlZt

— Rawan‏𓂆☭ روان (@RiverToSea48) January 21, 2024

I think it's my fault, but we've been posting on the "other countries" thread fyi.

(also xpost to tabes: very true; I guess I meant "shocked" more in the sense of "disgusted" than "surprised"; this genocide has disintegrated any vestigial faith in the media I once had)

More on the Columbia U story that fgti post earlier: https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2024/01/22/protesters-allegedly-sprayed-with-hazardous-chemical-at-pro-palestinian-rally-nearly-two-dozen-report/