rolling “Trump is gonna win” containment thread

Yeah, all sensible humans want him to die in agony

This is something I think about a lot, as during his tenure as President I fantasized vividly and embarrassingly often about violently dispatching him (plus some of his enablers/other odious pols -- the Mitch McConnells, Stephen Millers, Steve Bannons, etc.) But, I know that to do so is had for the soul. I don't think it's good to wish ill on others even if they are truly "evil" people (I'm not big on the concept of ~Evil~ but I think that he has consistently and at large scale done one of the worst things a person can do, which is to stoke and encourage others' bad tendencies. He has truly made the US and the world at large  a much worse place and has catalyzed some very unwholesome energies, and given them an unholy momentum for the foreseeable future, in a way that's not really quantifiable as is say, "GWB/Cheney are responsible for x number of deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq!")

So it's weird because on the one hand it does seem evident, to me at least, that if a dozen or so people were to disappear from the earth today (most of them are billionaires, fwiw) life on the planet would get instantaneously better. Truly! There would be a collective global sigh of relief, because these people who suck so so bad and who are seemingly hellbent on making everything shittier and shittier for the rest of us, who only ever seem to use their powers for not-good, would no longer have that pernicious influence that contributes so substantially to the dread we all feel. But, I know it's not good to think in that way. I'm not going to try to speak for others, but I know that I have my own inner Trump, inner Elon, inner Bezos, inner Putin, inner Bibi, inner Modi, inner fascist (yes, it is crowded in here) and that is truly the heart of the problem, and not the bad "out there". Plus I know that I lack the wisdom to make decisions involving judging and condemning people -- who knows but that my self-righteous impulses wouldn't end up upsetting a delicate ecology. Maybe Trump, Elon, Bibi and their actions are somehow keeping something even WORSE from happening. But I don't know. Things are pretty bad as is. I do knowthat I've discovered in my own life that it's bad to wish for bad things to happen to others. Even Trumps... Otherwise (among other things,) I'm just taking on the tendencies of that which I objected to so strongly in the first place.

Also, as a postscript to this novel, it's insane that we have to encounter Trump's name and image every day once again, and that he might be around for several more years. People were talking I think in the other Trump thread about the abusive parent type dynamic among the MAGA cult and their relationship to him, and I think it's an apt comparison. All of us, MAGA and non-, are going through this seemingly neverending saga in which we are held hostage by this terrible man who keeps pumping out terrible ideas into this world. I've said before that I feel like I unironically have "TDS". We're all being traumatized by this freak. It's not good! Why does God seem to hate us so?

All of us, MAGA and non-, are going through this seemingly neverending saga in which we are held hostage by this terrible man who keeps pumping out terrible ideas into this world. I've said before that I feel like I unironically have "TDS". We're all being traumatized by this freak. It's not good! Why does God seem to hate us so?

I feel the same way

x3

I fantasized vividly and embarrassingly often about violently dispatching him

you're not alone in this

X3

I would give detailed plans but I'm worried that most ILXors are actually Secret Service

https://i.imgur.com/BBO6LMj.jpg

i just have an unusual affection for coiled earpieces, that's all. and 2D pants

what is TDS?

you mean TSD?

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

I'm convinced that if the top dozen "evil" people disappeared, the next tier dozen would take their place and become just as evil.

Trump's more like SBD, if you get my drift.

I wish he was silent

FOREVER

I'm convinced that if the top dozen "evil" people disappeared, the next tier dozen would take their place and become just as evil.

― nickn, Thursday, January 18, 2024

Maybe, and they may work behind the scenes to try to cement an oligarchy and undermine democracy. But that is slow work compared to the destruction Trump has been responsible for in just a few years

Wow ty nickn

I wasn’t familiar with the acronym but now that I am the similarity is striking.

Never hearing Trump's voice again would be a blessing.

Agreed, but I also don't want to see his stupid fucking face, or his bad ties, or the way his shoes tilt him forward, or his odious sons.

There is basically nothing redeeming about this individual, except maybe one thing. That his repellent personal nature repels enough people to get his terrible politics out of the way, for a bit. I know that this political strain is eternal, but maybe we can get a break from it.

Trump has been a media figure in my life for 40 years. Throughout the 2016 campaign and into his presidency I was compelled to watch his speeches live because Ms. T reminded me that "someone is going to assassinate him and if you miss seeing it live you're going to be really pissed"

Ugh, I'm so sorry

someone is going to assassinate him

I'm sure I have posted about this before, but prior to my grandmother's death at age 91 in 2019 she would openly talk about doing this. She had a little .25 pistol and figured no one would pay her any mind.

I do wonder if Trump were assassinated he would become some tedious tragic martyr for the cause. But I'm sure that'll also be the case when he dies on the toilet trying to evacuate an ancient well-done steak from his elastic colon.

Many xps but Trump’s appeal is still that he’s somehow less offputting than the losers he was up against in 2016 and the losers who’ve followed along his path. Put him on stage with Ted Cruz or DeSantis or Blake Masters and he seems like the one closest to a real human.

a real piece of shit human but i see your point

It's almost impossible to replicate because you can't have MAGA politics without being a creepy megachurch fundamentalist or a creepy fascist eugenics freak - unless you're Donald Trump. You need that lack of ideological motivation to give an air of normality.

I think the honest thief dynamic plays a big role, and maybe more today than in 2016. They call me the bad guy and maybe they're right, but they're the bad guy too. And being robbed by the police is worse than being robbed by the burglar.

I think we see this with the 'threat to democracy" stuff and why it isn't necessarily landing. They call me the threat to democracy and maybe they're right, but is what they're offering really democracy? How can I be a threat to an illusion?

With me you can see it all upfront and decide for yourself, with those guys? Who knows

Some percentage is "all politicians lie, at least one is entertaining." Some is "I cannot spare this man; he fights." Some is what anvil speaks of, Some is "he's a bullshitter, that's different from a liar."

I still maintain that most of his appeal is having the right enemies and missing off the right people. Hence (as anvil says), the "threat to democracy" stuff sounds like uptight people clutching their pearls, and will not be a winning message.

We need happy warriors with something inspiring to say. Not just the politics of "fear the other guy."

* pissing, not missing

They call me the threat to democracy and maybe they're right, but is what they're offering really democracy? How can I be a threat to an illusion?

I think we see this with the 'threat to democracy" stuff and why it isn't necessarily landing

We don't know this yet and I'm inclined to think independents will land fine.

I mean, this is basically my truth, but the MAGA vision is bent toward paranoid fascism, whereas mine is bent toward liberation and actual democracy.,

I think this may be gradually increasing across the board, with faith in democracy also eroding outside MAGA world. I also think the same is true of the honest thief dynamic, the general trend not being "this thing is bad" but "the other things are also bad", which can be energising within MAGA world but have a dampening effect outside it. Not a trend unique to the US of course

The other problem with the "threat to democracy" angle is the fact he was in power before and power was handed over to a successor. Thats not nothing. Obviously that means downplaying J6 but for many if the ball doesnt cross the line there's no goal and nothing to see here

I think you're forgetting how those voters to whom you allude -- these voters jaded by the Threat to Democracy -- turned against him in 2018, 2020, and 2022.

but yes I forget this is the "Trump is gonna win" thread

I haven't forgotten 2020 or 2022 (though I did actually forget about 2018)

I think this dynamic exists. Whether the dynamic exists enough to bring Trump back into power I find more difficult to tell

The "threat to democracy" stuff needs to be packaged in the right way, or else I think it can come across as too abstract or academic. A lot of ppl don't care about "democracy" but they do care about democratic values.

I totally agree that just attacking Trump isn't sufficient, there needs to an actual positive message about all the great things Grandpa Joe will do in his second term. But I also think attacking Trump is important. "Threat to democracy" is too abstract, I agree. I think more along the lines of "Jesus Christ aren't we sick of this guy yet?"

I mean, people on this thread have been earnestly backing a required current events/civics knowledge quiz as a requirement for voting, which isn't a democratic value

"Protect Abortion" is a proven winning message, so is "Leave trans people alone/let the kids have their medicine", but Grandpa Joe is an elderly Catholic uncomfortable with those things.

Like we literally have the worst possible democratic candidate all because boomer dems in 2020 played the Keynsian Beauty Contest and voted for the "electable" candidate, who is barely electable compared to "Generic Dem".

"Protect Abortion" is a proven winning message, so is "Leave trans people alone/let the kids have their medicine", but Grandpa Joe is an elderly Catholic uncomfortable with those things.

And yet he pushes for both/all, because where the party goes, Joe goes.

Like we literally have the worst possible democratic candidate all because boomer dems in 2020 played the Keynsian Beauty Contest and voted for the "electable" candidate, who is barely electable compared to "Generic Dem".

Worst how? He won. Who among the other primary candidates in 2020 would have won by a larger margin? Show your work. This is what pisses me off about the "primary Biden" people. They never name their magical candidate...because there isn't one. Name one Democratic politician with a higher national profile and better approval numbers than the motherfucking incumbent president. There aren't any. We're talking about people who are the political equivalent of the names in four-point type on the Coachella poster.

the thing is Biden has a lot of legitimate achievements he can campaign on - big victories for unions, great jobs/economy numbers, some good climate stuff, student debt cancellation, etc....and if they're smart they'll make a big splash with some broadly popular thing in summer. I hate what he's doing for Israel but I'm not gonna pretend every other president in US history wouldn't do the same. I too would prefer something else but it's not like they have nothing to champion from his term. I mean god, if Trump did half of this shit the media would declare him the greatest president of all time.

Biden is a better president than he is a candidate, but he is two for two when its time to vote

The primaries and campaign are going to be awful, but this is the thing that makes me most optimistic for the outcome

📈📈line go up pic.twitter.com/mq8Nl5zbbT

— Jeff Stein (@JStein_WaPo) January 19, 2024

I hate what he's doing for Israel but I'm not gonna pretend every other president in US history wouldn't do the same.

He’s significantly more of obsequious to Israel than every other President aside from Trump (who at least had a natural rapport with the Israeli right so being allied made sense).

‘Whatever Israel wants’ is one of the few ideological motivations still rattling around his skull.

https://jewishcurrents.org/joe-bidens-alarming-record-on-israel

I will continue to push back on the jobs numbers/economy stuff.

Jobs numbers and slightly higher pay mean nothing when a cart of groceries costs at least $100 more each week for a lot of people. There has even been acknowledgement by economists that it is exactly these more regular expenses that give what they call the “false” claim that the economy isn’t doing as well, in the minds of many people. But this isn’t a false claim! Regular expenses add up, not many people care whether the price of furniture or flat screen TVs has gone down.

The economy is in bad shape because no one is getting paid enough, and jobs numbers and other metrics will never actually reflect the lived experience of most people.

but aiui the index of consumer sentiment measures opinions, not any objective economic numbers

I'm with tabes on this. Americans are promised the moon, and get testy when they can't even afford the occasional Moon Pie.

Table OTM