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Some really terrifying stuff here

So I want to talk about the implications of the study on cognitive slowing that came out in the Lancet yesterday, because it is incredibly important. You should be VERY, VERY, VERY worried by this, because essentially what it shows is that the number of people with moderate to severe cognitive impairment has grown dramatically in just four years and is poised to grow further. A lot further.

So a large study was done in BOTH the UK and Germany, that matched three cohorts of patients. The first one were folks with long covid (aka PCC). The second had had covid, but did not have long covid symptoms. The third were people who had not had covid.

In the control group (no covid) 4% had severe cognitive impairment already and 14.7% showed moderate cognitive impairment. The vast majority (3xs as many as have severe impairment) of those people have milder cognitive impairment, rather than severe. So without any other affects, about 19% of the population has some kind of cognitive slowing, due to disability, temporary health problems like chemo, dementia or MCI etc...

In the group with Long Covid, 9.3% of the population had moderate cognitive impairment and *53.5%* had Severe impairment, more than three standard deviations below the norm. This is a huge and appalling number.

Just as horrifying, but getting less attention, among those who DID NOT HAVE LONG COVID but had had covid had a 19.4% rate of severe impairment and a 9.7% rate of moderate impairment - which means that out of folks who have had covid but DID NOT GET LONG COVID, nearly a third of them are cognitively impaired, and a majority of those severely.

This study folllows on the heels of MANY MANY studies that show covid causes brain damage, and affects the brain seriously. So what does this mean for us as a society and what does it mean individually?

First, let's start with how many people this probably is. There's a lot of dispute over the number of people who get long covid, with estimates ranging in the vaccinated from 5%-25%+ A lot of it depends on how you identify long covid and frame the issue. What we do know is that when you ask people about symptoms, you get very high proportions, but generally if you ask people about whether they have long covid, you get low ones, which suggests it is underdiagnosed, rather than the opposite.

So let's pick a low-end number, suggesting that 10% of covid infections result in long covid (the US CDC says 20%, btw) - which lines up with a recent Canadian study that showed that long covid risk was cumulative, with a risk of 38% in people who had had covid three or more times.

At 0 infections, about 20% of the population has some kind of cognitive slowing. In the United States, with a population of 330 million, that's about 66 million people - of those 66 millions, 16.5 have severe impairment and just under 50 million have moderate impairment.

Now how does this bode for the future when you plug these numbers into the US population? I'll use conservative numbers and round down whenever possible. Remember, the US CDC estimates the prevalence of long covid at around 20%, but I'm going to say 10% to be conservative.

330 Million Americans, 90% have had covid, that gives us 297 Million Americans who have had covid, and if one in ten has long covid, that's just about 30 Million Americans with Long covid. 60.3% showed some kind of cognitive impairment, mostly severe, and that means 18.9 MILLION Americans have cognitive slowing due to Long Covid. In this case, a huge majority of them, more 5 out of six, have severe impairment.

But we aren't done. Because almost 30% of folks who had covid infections but did not have long covid ALSO had significant cognitive slowing. 90% of Americans, in the absence of any mitigation have had at least one case of covid. That equals 297 Million Americans. Of those 29% would have either moderate or severe cognitive impairment. That's 86 MILLION Americans, and again, a majority of them (twice as many) have severe impairment.

So using these numbers, the US has gone from 66 million people, mostly with moderate cognitive impairment and slowing, to 170 MILLION Americans with some kind of cognitive impairment, 88 Million of them with severe cognitive slowing and impairment, more than two or three standard deviations below the norm.

So not only have we more than doubled the number of cognitively disabled people in the US, we've increased the amount of people with severe cognitive impairment by FIVE TIMES WHAT IT WAS FOUR YEARS AGO. That is a huge and terrifying change.

But what does that cognitive slowing actually MEAN in day to day life? The study points out that it affects your response to stimulus - that is, your rapid response to complex situations, and your puzzle solving ability. For example, how do you make split second decisions while driving, or flying a plane, but also how do you make routine rapid decisions - for example how much change to give at the cash register or what how to respond when confronted with a challenging situation. It also tested how quickly people absorbed information - for example, how rapidly they could incorporate new things into their thinking, whether a sudden truck cutting them off or the sudden revelation of a new data point that requires response.

People in this study needed A LOT more time to process things correctly. They were unable to respond quickly and accurately in test situations - and test situations are generally LESS stressful than real life. This also had implications for people's ability to pay attention. If it is taking them a lot longer to absorb and process new information, then they are processing one concept while you are presenting another and more things are being missed. It is also easier for people to lose the thread of what is going on, when it is taking considerable time for them to absorb information.

So this has implications for pretty much everything in life. And we've been seeing these implications all through the system. For example, in the increase in driving accidents. From 2018 to 2022 the increase in fatal car accidents, even during periods with reduced driving due pandemic restrictions, increased by 16%. In the same period, the FAA found that aviation accidents and near misses had increased by 25% over a decade ago. And that makes perfect sense given the impact of covid on pilots and drivers. Because remember, MOST OF THESE PEOPLE EITHER DO NOT KNOW THEY ARE IMPAIRED OR DONT REALIZE HOW BAD IT IS.

It has implications for education as well - if almost half your students are cognitively impaired (and it is almost impossible to know what the rate of long covid is among children, who can't tell us they felt better two years ago because they were three then) and processing things much slower, they are going to struggle to understand, struggle to pay attention and struggle with impulse control when they have to make rapid decisions.

And this matches up really well with what teachers are telling us about kids now - that they are less in control, more likely to do dangerous or foolish things, less able to attend, unable to remember basic concepts, and unable to process information well. Over and over teachers have blamed this on the pandemic restrictions, but we know that test scores fell most in states that were closed the shortest time. This why the kids never seem to be catching up - because forced infection is harming their brains. And why kindergarteners who were babies during lockdowns are struggling now.

The implications for daily life are also huge - your accountant is typing in numbers rapidly and may miss a line or two because of cognitive slowing. An inspector misses a whole section of something. Your therapist can't process quickly enough to understand everything you've said. Your doctor misses the critical bit about your penicillin allergy. A person has to respond rapidly to a customer complaint or a situation in a workplace, and makes a bad choice - and now is embarassed and trying cover for their error. Life comes at you fast - but you can't do fast anymore. And this too dovetails with what we've been hearing - reports of unusually severe levels of errors across fields, declines in testing in multiple professions across the board.

And we're only four years in. A recent review of covid from Canada found that Long Covid risk was cumulative - that is, 38% of those who had had covid THREE OR MORE TIMES had long covid. Which gives you above a 50-50 chance of cognitive slowing.

There may be people completely immune to long covid, but probably not nearly enough. If we continue with unchecked covid spread, we are looking at a population that is severely cognitively damaged. We already have cognitive damage at levels never seen before in history. And we haven't got a CLUE what the long term implications of covid's role in our brains is - but we know some things. We know it increases your risk of Alzheimers and Parkinsons, and we also know that the covid virus makes nanotubes through your brain, and then sets up shop there, and is often found permanently in your brain.

One of the reasons I truly believe that covid is AS GREAT a threat to us as Climate change is, is this - we are going to need every bit of big brain power that humans have to get through the coming decades. Every time we throw human being's greatest advantage - our capacity to think things through and solve problems - in the trash can so that we can eat at Olive Garden and not wear masks, we risk our future.

Moreover, we have already done incalculable harm to many people, particularly those who are most vulnerable. While traffic accidents are up all across the board by 16%, they are up even more among the unvaccinated. And while you might not have a lot of empathy for adults who don't vaccinate, the vast majority of unvaccinated globally are either adults who have no access (including in the US now that we've ended pandemic supports) and CHILDREN. We are damaging our children's brains on a huge and unprecedented scale, and it may be the thing that destroys us.

Feeling this really hard because I can absolutely see my cognitive decline - not in terms of puzzles (I still completely rule in word games) but general forgetfulness and brain fog and difficulty focusing at work. But what shall one do with that?

Washington Post Malone (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:12 (nine months ago) link

it's no good. definitely not like a cold or flu. and as i mentioned in the other thread, currently in California (you know, the leftist nightmare nanny state where you aren't allowed to live freely due to covid restrictions), they rolled back the covid restrictions to the point that anyone who is testing positive but is asymptomatic no longer needs to isolate, and that includes students. get back to school, kids!

omar little, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:21 (nine months ago) link

terrifying

dead precedents (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:27 (nine months ago) link

a repository of long COVID research that had trickled in over 2023, from Katelyn Jetelina:

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/long-covid-research-roundup?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2

never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:30 (nine months ago) link

what's the source for that quote about cognitive impairment?

bryan, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:42 (nine months ago) link

looks like it's from a novelist's substack? unless they were just reposting.

never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:44 (nine months ago) link

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35701598/

dead precedents (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:45 (nine months ago) link

"Selective visuoconstructional impairment following mild COVID-19 with inflammatory and neuroimaging correlation findings"

dead precedents (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:45 (nine months ago) link

an MD friend of mine just posted about this a couple days ago so I had that link at hand

dead precedents (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:46 (nine months ago) link

xxxpost and a previous article that i found helpful, also from Katelyn Jetelina, on research from last year: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/covid-19-research-roundup-jan-11?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2

big eye-openers were:

*transmission taking longer than previously thought
*highest viral load at days 3-4 of infection rather than pre-symptoms (which is why the 5 day arbitrary quarantine time without a negative test is ridiculous - you basically return to life while you still might be at your most infectious).

never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:46 (nine months ago) link

thanks sleeve!

never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:47 (nine months ago) link

np

dead precedents (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:47 (nine months ago) link

i would be more outraged and upset about this if i hadn’t been smoking weed for the last 30 years

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:47 (nine months ago) link

my wife's mom passed away after a 15 year battle w/dementia back in 2021, so she has fears of getting covid due to that, just knowing about the compounding effects. she wants to kick that down the road as long as possible, knowing it might be very difficult to avoid it forever, but if that's the case simply wanting to get as few infections as possible.

omar little, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:50 (nine months ago) link

thanks for all the links

bryan, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:52 (nine months ago) link

Sorry, meant to get the Lancet link in there. Failed; blame covid

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(24)00013-0/fulltext

Washington Post Malone (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:54 (nine months ago) link

Was gonna say, that "selective visuoconstructional" study is from ... 2022? 2023? The one you just posted is obviously more recent, though the methodology is not really clear/convincing to me, admittedly a cognitively impaired dummy. Just 194 participants?

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 21:03 (nine months ago) link

i would be more outraged and upset about this if i hadn’t been smoking weed for the last 30 years

― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, January 30, 2024 3:47 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
^^^
Ironically, I just had covid (2nd time) over the holidays and have been feeling sharper and more focused at work this month than at any time in the last 22 years, albeit I have a big project forcing me to focus.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Wednesday, 31 January 2024 18:16 (nine months ago) link

SO I got the rona first the first time about a month ago.

a couple of weeks later I felt like I was getting round 2 but 3 neg tests proved otherwise. However, the symptoms were all the same and over the past two weeks ive had shallow breathing, severe fatigue, sore legs, back and arms, sore chest and a dry cough. Its basically been awful just being.

I finally have a drs appt this afternoon and Im scared hes going to act like Im making it all up or act like its nothing. Its been so hard just getting through the work day. Im basically putting most of my work on my team, who have been very helpful and sympathetic but obviously this cant go on.

Anyway, im scaaaaaaared.

Esteemed character actress (sunny successor), Thursday, 1 February 2024 14:40 (nine months ago) link

ugh sorry to hear it, hugs!

Are you up to date with vaxes?

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 February 2024 14:42 (nine months ago) link

I had a flu over Christmas that very similar to covid. It's possible you just got unlucky and got covid then flu, they are both definitely getting about. Either way, both times (although it wasn't as severe as it sounds for you) it took me about six weeks to feel relatively back to normal. Whatever happens, hope you feel better soon!

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 1 February 2024 15:42 (nine months ago) link

The cognitive impairment thing sounds plausible but I'm not sure that long panicky Substacky is the best means to understanding and using that information. One study is not enough to get ALL CAPS PANIC about something, although obviously it doesn't hurt to be more mindful of risks.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 1 February 2024 15:46 (nine months ago) link

I learned more from the story that Neanderthal re-posted tbh

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 February 2024 15:48 (nine months ago) link

anecdotal info so take with grain of salt, but a few of my friends had what felt like a covid relapse a few weeks after they got it (it turned out to not be long covid in every case, thankfully)

ivy., Thursday, 1 February 2024 16:10 (nine months ago) link

Thanks, all. Im not up to date on my vaxxes. It has crossed my it might be the flu They did a test at the urgent care I went to about a week ago but they shoved something up my nose that didnt even touch the sides. It took about.oooooo1 seconds so I dont really trust it.

I just hope its not my 3rd bout of pneumonia. The back stabbies are making me wonder though.

Esteemed character actress (sunny successor), Thursday, 1 February 2024 16:45 (nine months ago) link

When we had covid over the holidays, my wife took Paxlovid and got rebound a week after feeling better. I did not take it and had maybe a worse case of covid but no rebound (does not mean I wouldn't take Paxlovid, I just didn't think about it in time).

Hope you are feeling better soon, sunny!

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Thursday, 1 February 2024 17:13 (nine months ago) link

“While traffic accidents are up all across the board by 16%, they are up even more among the unvaccinated. And while you might not have a lot of empathy for adults who don't vaccinate, the vast majority of unvaccinated globally are either adults who have no access (including in the US now that we've ended pandemic supports) and CHILDREN.”

Those kids shouldn’t have been driving sito

Boris Yitsbin (wins), Thursday, 1 February 2024 17:28 (nine months ago) link

people are definitely driving worse, i wouldn't always ascribe it to the effects of covid, society in decline and an emphasis on how people need to drive a car that owns the road (whatever their chosen make and model may be), everyone else outta the way, etc.

but i also would be surprised if covid didn't have cognitive effects on people, some very obvious but some more widespread and much less so. kinda like in the NFL, players might be obviously concussed and stuck in protocol, but others get little dings every game and it all adds up to a cost being paid later. obviously some guys play the game and take the hits and wind up find but idk.

omar little, Thursday, 1 February 2024 17:35 (nine months ago) link

those kids def shouldn't be driving obv

omar little, Thursday, 1 February 2024 17:35 (nine months ago) link

It’s funny, to the best of my knowledge I’ve never had the rona, and I continue to take more than average precautions to not get the rona, but I am very much not the person I was a couple of years ago cognitively speaking. My executive functioning sucks, I react slowly to things, at my job I struggle with stuff I used to have in my back pocket.

The most likely explanation would be this is a new feature of my chronic depression (celebrating 35 years in 2024 woooo) but then I also think back to how my wife and I both had something nasty and viral right at the end of Dec 2019/beginning of Jan 2020.

realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 1 February 2024 18:11 (nine months ago) link

it was my third bout of pneumonia.

doc said covid + sinus infection (which i didnt know i even had except for blocked ears) often results in pneumonia. so thats something to look for, i guess.

Esteemed character actress (sunny successor), Tuesday, 6 February 2024 16:54 (nine months ago) link

took mom to doctor's because she likely has a sinus infection (got worse and worse as the week went on, negative for flu, COVID, on several occasions). we were masked. two Geico cavepeople then walked in the door and the mom immediately starts telling the lady behind the counter that her son is really really sick, has had a 103 fever, been vomiting (basically TEXTBOOK Influenza B symptoms), and neither are masked, and dude comes into the area I'm sitting, so I somewaht dramatically got up and moved.

like....fuck, it was an expectation BEFORE COVID that you were supposed to mask at the doctor if you thought you had the flu. I remember CVS Minute Clinic having signage in the store back in 2014 that you were required to put one on if you had suspected flu symptoms before entering.

literally just avoided an exposure to Influenza A, not looking to get the much worse flu right now (I did get my flu shot). thankfully mom was inside the doctor's office the whole time.

Neanderthal, Tuesday, 13 February 2024 22:40 (nine months ago) link

Mom has COVID. And bronchitis and a sinus infection!

Yay.

Weirdly doc didn't give Paxlovid. He thought it might be false positive but it's not. Second test at home confirmed. She has antibiotics for the other stuff

I'm negative but we'll see if it lasts.

Neanderthal, Tuesday, 13 February 2024 23:55 (nine months ago) link

I may make mom get the Paxlovid tho

Neanderthal, Tuesday, 13 February 2024 23:55 (nine months ago) link

I'll be isolating of course. Just hoping mom feels better. She seems beat but oxygen and blood pressure fine.

Neanderthal, Tuesday, 13 February 2024 23:56 (nine months ago) link

mom still not doing well, but only on second full day of antibiotics for bronchitis and sinus infection. she was sick all the way back to last Tuesday with minor symptoms and wasn't testing positive then, so we think possibly she got sinus infection -> bronchitis first, then COVID.

still testing negative here. once last week, three times across two days this week. i've stayed at home and mostly kept my distance and masking in house. they didn't prescribe mom Paxlovid and I asked her if she wanted me to fill out the Walgreens form to get it yesterday and she seemed reluctant, thinking she's too far along in her infection, and also dreading the metallic aftertaste. I think we're still in the window to get it so I may persuade her again.

definitely not a false positive for her, it popped bright red immediately today for her

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Thursday, 15 February 2024 16:58 (nine months ago) link

Good luck, man!

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 15 February 2024 17:06 (nine months ago) link

Damn Neando, that's a lot! Sending good vibes and hopes that it's all mild for her.

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 15 February 2024 17:07 (nine months ago) link

hoping so too. she had a coughing fit that freaked me out a little in the night, but then I remembered that's what bronchitis essentially does.

if antibiotics don't do anything and it doesn't improve, I might suggest an ER visit just to get looked at.

bummer is dad's birthday is Sunday and we had a dinner planned, mom, my brother, and I, to celebrate his memory - which we'll probably have to postpone now now. but as I pointed out - we can celebrate him on that day no matter where we're at, and do something more formal when we're all healthy.

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Thursday, 15 February 2024 17:18 (nine months ago) link

She's really lucky to have you in her life Neando, that's for sure.

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 15 February 2024 17:19 (nine months ago) link

A lot of people underestimate how long it takes lung stuff to heal. Coughs, even regular coughs, can linger for weeks. If antibiotics don't take it out, might be worth checking for pneumonia.

I don't know why, but I've heard lots of stories (or at least, more than one) of doctors not prescribing Paxlovid even when the patient is right in the bullseye: covid, older, more at risk, etc. Granted, the medicine supposedly works best very early on in the diagnosis, and also interferes with a few medications that many older people often take (blood pressure?), but other than that, I'm not sure there are any real downsides. When I had covid in July, my primary doc didn't prescribe it, so I just immediately contacted a Teledoc right after and she prescribed it with no hesitation.

dreading the metallic aftertaste.

This I don't get. Yeah, it wasn't the best taste, but it wasn't terrible, no medicine tastes good, and it's only temporary. I can see dreading a colonoscopy or dreading getting a filling, but medicine that tastes weird for a couple of days? That's not worthy of dread, imo. You can tell your mom I said so.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 15 February 2024 17:21 (nine months ago) link

Here's more fun long covid stuff

https://wapo.st/3UDglOd

Gift link

fleetwood macrame (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 15 February 2024 17:23 (nine months ago) link

xpost yeah and it's easy enough to get at Walgreens so I might just tell her 'come on, what's one more pill'

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Thursday, 15 February 2024 17:24 (nine months ago) link

tbf, it's a lot of pills!

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 15 February 2024 17:36 (nine months ago) link

oh she has like 12-15 already lol

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Thursday, 15 February 2024 17:52 (nine months ago) link

mom improving. me, still nothing, no symptoms, no positive test.

and now i've been isolating, whereas before we knew we had basically been sharing a lot of the same air.

may get lucky.

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Friday, 16 February 2024 23:21 (nine months ago) link

isolating from mom that is in my own room. and a KN95

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Friday, 16 February 2024 23:21 (nine months ago) link

Good thoughts, that's a lot. Hope improvement continues.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 16 February 2024 23:29 (nine months ago) link

the big improvement is in her cough, thankfully. suggests that the bronchitis might indeed be separate bacterial infection and that antibiotics are working.

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Friday, 16 February 2024 23:30 (nine months ago) link

mom has essentially beaten the bronchitis and sinus infection and just has residual gunk from the bronchitis.

still testing positive, but line has gotten fainter finally.

I continue to test negative and feel absolutely fine, and if mom is negative soon, I might completely luck out again. especially since we're basically in separate rooms and masking when in the same room.

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Monday, 19 February 2024 21:29 (eight months ago) link


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