Israel/Palestine post 10/7 - follow-on events/thoughts as relate to other countries

A serious/news podcaster got in touch with me a few years ago to say he liked my Centuries of Sound project, we had a chat over zoom and it turned out we had some other interests in common, so made some vague plans to collaborate which came to nothing, but we kept in touch anyway. Seemed to be a good guy basically.

Then from October he began posting rabidly pro-Israel stuff on Twitter, after a few weeks I reluctantly went to mute him and it turned out he'd already unfollowed me - my twitter account is 95% music stuff, so must have been something I liked? Dunno. So I unfollowed him too.

Yesterday I went to check out his feed to see if he was still at it. Not only was he not, he'd also deleted every single tweet or reply (or like!) where he'd expressed any sort of opinion on Israel, Palestine or Hamas, and there were a lot of these, over several months. No apology or explanation, just all as if he'd never had a thought about it.

So is this cowardice? Has he actually changed his mind? And how many more news media people have done the same?

BREAKING: A Dutch court has ordered the Netherlands to halt the delivery of parts for F-35 fighter jets used by Israel in its bombardment of the Gaza Strip https://t.co/oh4sDLMjps pic.twitter.com/SmqH8CpZgW

— Al Jazeera Breaking News (@AJENews) February 12, 2024

Yesterday I went to check out his feed to see if he was still at it. Not only was he not, he'd also deleted every single tweet or reply (or like!) where he'd expressed any sort of opinion on Israel, Palestine or Hamas, and there were a lot of these, over several months. No apology or explanation, just all as if he'd never had a thought about it.

So is this cowardice? Has he actually changed his mind? And how many more news media people have done the same?

I think people should be allowed to be wrong about something, change their minds, and pivot to a new stance without having to apologize for being wrong— this goes for commentators, not policy-makers, obv

Some people don’t have the ability to apologize and you just kinda have to settle for “an aroma of remorse”

IDK, I don't want to give him a pass on this, he said some really fucked up things.

Short of asking the dude - which I understand you wouldn't want to - I think this'll just have to stay a mystery.

Friends who angrily told me I was being "alarmist" and "delusional" back in October when I said "I don't think Netanyahu actually cares about rescuing any hostages" and "I think his intention is to create conditions which predicate the permanent evacuation of the population of Gaza, and its annexation by Israel", I don't bear them any ill will or feel like they should apologise, like whatever, I thought it seemed obvious pretty early on but maybe it was not so obvious

Former friends who were saying things to me like "how can you call this a genocide when the Palestinians breed like [insert a pest animal here]", there's no apology that would suffice, those former friends are unwelcome

Friends in Israel think the abductees are hostages to Netanyahu (who will be hurled out of office when this is over/hostages are returned) as much as to Hamas.

Yes, that’s been my impression also

he asked an Israeli audience member to leave because he objected that the comedian was displaying a Palestinian flag, but you’d never guess that from the headline https://t.co/BFSW6OWk5L

— Nihal | نهال (@nihalist___) February 14, 2024

I mean, you also wouldn't guess it from the article, since that's not what happened.

In fairness, that's the shorter version of the article she's linked to there: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/feb/12/soho-theatre-apologises-after-comedian-abused-jewish-audience-member

Honestly I don’t see the problem.

The problem with the tweet or the underlying incident?

the tweet

I guess just general handwringing about how Twitter is a place with a lousy relation to the truth, where most people never click through to links, so it's not great if a correction is further from the underlying facts than the headline it's 'correcting'?

The problem with the tweet is that there isn’t actually a problem with the headline

Maybe "the stand-up routine is terrible" should be the main takeaway from this.

Currie’s show was described on the theatre website as a “unique, surrealist, dada punk-clown, non-verbal experience”. He does not speak in the hour-long show until the end and relies on mime, music and audience participation.

Sounds like hell on Earth.

^ not stand up, as that description shows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPQHHP7dfjU

Currie then sits down and mimes someone doing just that - sitting in silence - then sitting apathetically in front of the TV. He then mobes (sic) to another skit, miming to Kermit singing Rainbow Connection.

That's entertainment!

It doesn’t sound great, and I have never heard of Currie before yesterday, but I question what function the article serves except to elevate the importance of the uncomfortability of an Israeli person over the literal genocide being perpetrated by the Israeli government against a captive civilian population.

Honestly, I believe proud Israeli citizens should be shamed. They should be ashamed of what their government is doing, and if they are not, they can go to hell.

They couldn’t fit that into the headline probably

They should be ashamed of what their government is doing, and if they are not, they can go to hell.

― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Thursday, February 15, 2024 5:29 AM bookmarkflaglink

No they can't. Hell is a Paul Currie comedy show.

OTM

lol fair

Terrible.

Refugee who wore paraglider image at protest to have asylum status reviewedhttps://t.co/V2u9NZ10ra

— Benny Hunter (@BennnyH) February 16, 2024

As the person who posted the tweet says below, they will not be removed from the UK, but using the immigration system as punishment is something many of us should be afraid of.

Lots of cool war crime fantasies from our Democratic leaders

NY Gov Hochul last night on local opposition to Israel’s war in Gaza:

“If Canada someday ever attacked Buffalo, I'm sorry my friends, there would be no Canada the next day.

“That’s a natural reaction. You have a right to defend yourself and to make sure it never happens again.” pic.twitter.com/UCHUBmU6ka

— Jacob N. Kornbluh (@jacobkornbluh) February 16, 2024

BREAKING: UC Davis has divested from apartheid Israel. The bill prevents the ASUCD’s $20 mill budget from being spent “on companies complicit in the occupation and genocide.”

This is huge. University divestment efforts played a massive role in ending South African apartheid. pic.twitter.com/MdddeXLFCl

— Cocktails & Capitalism - an anticapitalist podcast (@CocktCapitalism) February 16, 2024

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/feb/21/uk-petrol-price-jumps-houthi-attacks

Those bombing raids on a country thousands of miles away don't seem to have been too effective.

Wonder what would be effective

Meanwhile.

What did I just read pic.twitter.com/ySapnTpeGc

— Hamza (@Hamza_a96) February 21, 2024

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/21/pastor-says-welby-would-not-meet-him-if-he-spoke-at-palestine-rally-with-corbyn

When pursuing a line of rhetoric brings you to Kathy Hochul threatening to hypothetically murder every Canadian, maybe somebody should consider the underlying premise?

In an interview with the Guardian, Isaac said he was told by the archbishop’s aides that if he shared a platform with Corbyn, no meeting could happen. Isaac said: “It’s shameful. It’s not my type of Christianity not to be willing to meet another pastor because you don’t want to explain why you met him.

“This sums up the Church of England. They danced around positions, and ended up saying nothing. They lack the courage to say things.”

“I know from meeting many church leaders that in private, they say one thing, and then in public, they say another thing. I’ve had the same experience with many politicians and diplomats.”

Isaac, on a visit to the UK to build support for the Palestinians, said an immediate ceasefire was “a moral obligation”. He added: “This is not a time for neutrality or soft diplomacy. Gaza should be your moral compass.”

Welby’s allies would say he has spoken out strongly on what is happening in Gaza and will continue to seek opportunities to stand in solidarity with Palestinians, but has to remain mindful of the impact on other communities.

I wonder what the Guardian thinks it's doing with that "Welby’s allies would say..." bit. Is this a report or an opinion piece?

Anyway, it clearly adds to Corbyn's international standing that Welby won't meet with him. Proves he's doing something right.

And of course

https://i.ibb.co/2F7C62T/Whats-App-Image-2024-02-21-at-16-15-48-52c911bc.jpg

Lutherans represent!

Nancy Pelosi crumbles when asked: "But there are levers that Biden hasn't used. There are levers that previous presidents have used when Israel has, in their view, crossed a line"

Pelosi: "For example?"

"Eisenhower threatened sanctions..Reagan held up delivery of fighter… pic.twitter.com/Dh6LC5a7GE

— HalalFlow (@halalflow) February 22, 2024

PRO-PALESTINE ACTIVIST: “I’ve seen 🎥of shredded children’s bodies. That’s my tax money bombing those kids.”@AndyOgles: “I think we should kill em all, if that makes you feel better.”

ACTIVIST: “Do you even have a heart?”

OGLES: “Death to Hamas.”

A disturbing Ogles exchange. pic.twitter.com/Dpnjqzw43n

— The Tennessee Holler (@TheTNHoller) February 21, 2024

not really sending our best

saying the quiet parts out loud

Same dude: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tennessee-andy-ogles-responds-critics-christmas-card-family-guns/

He's a creep, and what's worse is that that's a former Democratic district that got seriously gerrymandered a few years ago.

On that Pelosi clip, there seems to be more (admittedly small and idk how verifiable) videos and accounts purportedly from inside Palestine of small protests and Gazan people trying to say they dont want war, they dont want Hamas, they just want to live and send their kids to school.

https://twitter.com/khalidi79397

There is a podcast called Unapologetic: the Third Narrative from 2 Palestinian-Israeli peace activists. Their takeaway from the first episode is to ask people in the West to question everything.

https://open.spotify.com/show/5CT8QicPO31pe7AX0jA4Wp

I'd certainly question that twitter account's claim to be what it says it is

i wouldnt say that comes across as a very convincing fake no

That's good to question. Curious, what would be the indicators for you - is it the message itself or likes or follows or how would you go about verifying or debunking it? Personally I check Shayan Sahardzieh's account and look for bias voting on sources if any exist. Looking to understand more.

This podcast too, I wonder what people think.

Sorry for misspelling. It's Shayan Sardarizadeh ( @shayan86 )

aside from the weird framing/language (Pragmatic!) and exact fit for an ideal type ("Why don't you demand that Hamas surrenders?" - who is being triangulated within this?), I looked at the followers and there was a high proportion of people who mostly post islamophobia and similarly weird accounts like the palestinians for peace one, created in 2024 ("As real Palestinians, we call for a end of hamas and the PLO and all other Palestinian terrorist organizations, we support the democratic state of Israel").

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I no longer have an X account so it is a little challenging to do research. For example, I can't see the posts in chronological order, nor can I read replies or check out followers. I also did not read every single tweet they have ever posted so when I say "zero" or "no" below I'm surmising.

But, basically I find the possibility that a real Palestinian person, who joined Twitter in October 2023 and posts only (afaict) in English, would post in this fashion: exclusively critical of Hamas with what appear to be zero criticisms of Israel's response, no mention of settler and IDF violence in the West Bank where Hamas is not in power, tweets like this that take issue with as noncontroversial a word as "occupied":

People who call you a Zionist are often those who usually hate Jews.

People who hate Jews frequently believe in conspiracy theories.

People who believe in conspiracy theories typically love buzzwords like 'open-air prison,' 'genocide,' 'occupation,' and 'unicorns.'>

— Ahmed Al-Khalidi (@khalidi79397) February 9, 2024

tweets like this that equate Jewish Voice for Peace with the KKK and Nazis:

Nazis to Germans,
Kach to Israelis,
KKK to Americans,
Hamas to Palestinians,
JVP to Jews.

You are poison.

— Ahmed Al-Khalidi (@khalidi79397) January 22, 2024

Why would a "liberal" Palestinian have this opinion about JVP? It defies logic imo.

tweets like that merely repeat Israeli propaganda:

Destruction of Hamas's General Headquarters tunnels in northern Gaza. pic.twitter.com/lOE2A7dspt

— Ahmed Al-Khalidi (@khalidi79397) December 29, 2023

I could go on, but honestly I can't see how you'd see this account as anything other than blatant propaganda. To be sure, I have no theory as to who is behind the account in reality and for all I know maybe it makes a good point here or there. But I find it overwhelmingly unconvincing and, assuming I'm right, a pretty gross act of impersonation.

That last line would be a big tell for sure. I would certainly be suspicious of anyone claiming to be the "real" version of anything.

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