A thread about the Denis Villeneuve-helmed reboot of DUNE

Well, well.

The follow-up was originally slated to hit the big screen last fall, but it was delayed to spring because of the actors strike, which prevented stars Timothée Chalamet, Zendaya, Florence Pugh and the rest of the sprawling, buzzy cast from being able to promote the movie. On its new release date, the second “Dune” benefited from pent-up demand; there hasn’t been a blockbuster in weeks.

Opening grosses for “Dune 2,” on the heels of Warner’s fantasy musical “Wonka,” appear to confirm Chalamet as the rarest of species: a bankable leading man. And outsized commercial results might position Villeneuve, with the possible exception of Christopher Nolan, as the filmmaker best able to deliver the types of brainy big-screen spectacles that can appeal to wide audiences.

Being oh so familiar with the story made me impatient during the storytelling, annoyed by the glosses and shortcuts, and a bit baffled by plot changes. One in particular made little sense and also squandered a "big-moment" - in the books Rabban is tanking the spice production, Feyd is never governor. The Emperor is ticked off so comes to Arrakis to hold them to account; Paul leads the Fremen through the shield wall and corners Shaddam and the Baron who are shocked that he's alive, before he takes control. But in the film it's just "Dear Emperor, I'm the heir you thought was dead, why not come and have a fight," which seems pretty stupid since turning up to fight Atreides rather gives away that he had them wiped out in the first place, which he needs to conceal at all costs, and is the lever which unthrones him.

The Hollywood brain trust (shorthand for studio execs, producers, directors, writers, etc.) know that, although the Dune books have a seriously hardcore fan base, the preponderance of their audience will be made up of people who never read the books, don't read much of anything at all, and who just want to watch a movie that entertains them, rather than overloads them with complicated imaginary situations that only confuse their stressed-out brains. This might be sad for the book-loving fan base, but it's also perfectly true.

Yeah I just mean that the choice they made, which wasn't necessary, directly contradicts the motivation which drives the outcome, and robs them of a big reveal moment too.

I liked the adaptive smudges, Alia being “a talking embryo” and Leto Jr. not existing at all. The Feyd-Rautha exposition on Giedi Prime was amazing, like an AI Rick Owens commercial, I loved it. I loved Austin Butler. Denis made a compelling love story! first time for everything. Javier Bardem was great as Prince Faisal. Timothee’s stuntman deserves Best Actor. Good movie can’t wait to watch again.

Yeah I think this is really exceptional, a giant sci fi blockbuster that is well directed, great acting and screenwriting, with genuine emotion.

Further to fgti’s point, the Giedi Prime sequence was remarkable — those smeary fireworks! — and this is worth a read:

https://variety.com/2024/artisans/news/dune-2-shooting-arena-fight-scene-infrared-1235927682/

Definitely enjoyed it, just not as much as the first

Denis made a compelling love story! first time for everything.

i thought the ryan gosling / ana de armas love story in blade runner 2049 was really well-explored fwiw, and perfectly philip k dick

yes. easily the best part of that movie (which was kinda narratively dud otherwise imo)

i saw that movie w/you tracer!

(that was the best bit)

i thought the tracer hand / mark s blade runner 2049 screening story was really well-explored, and perfectly philip k dick

aw mark yes i stand corrected!!

Ok! Thanks for the corrective, I am due a rewatch of that film that I remember enjoying

Incendies did have a lovely little ten minute love story in it too iirc

I loved Blade Runner 2049, I need to see it again.

I can't get around to this one for a week or so (I don't think), but my sister saw it yesterday and, as someone who liked the first one but is not a Dune nerd, she told me by the end she didn't really know what was going on, lol.

yeah i love these and generally think the decisions about streamlining and story compression have been really well done, but its hard for me to be objective since i know the story already, i cant really get a sense of how well i'd be following if i didnt already know what the water of life was or whatever

as long as you have the basic idea that it's a few groups of people jockeying for power over the spice planet it seems hard to get all that lost

I loved Blade Runner 2049, I need to see it again.

I can't get around to this one for a week or so (I don't think), but my sister saw it yesterday and, as someone who liked the first one but is not a Dune nerd, she told me by the end she didn't really know what was going on, lol.

I was thinking that they might concentrate on the back end of the movie more having had a break between them, but having Paul earn his stripes as a fremen was probably the right choice narratively

My only minor complaint with Part 2 was that Feyd was introduced rather abruptly. No mention of him (that I noticed) until he actually appeared. His scenes were great, I just wish they’d laid a little more track before he arrived.

Also, I had a perfect track record of always hating Austin Butler until this movie. How dare he!!

What was the point of getting a bunch of themselves killed fighting the spice harvester escorts hand to hand if they were just going to laser it from a safe distance anyway? And don't tell me it was to shoot down those dragonflycopters first... they could have done that a little further away from dudes with swords. Did they flick a shield switch off somewhere near the treads?

I didn't read the books so not sure what the narrative significance of Paul being quarter voldemort, but it feels like the story isn't delivering a very powerful narrative payoff if the main voldemort characters the audience knows are all swiftly killed off. It doesn't count just because he said "hey gramps" and "BTW we're cousins" directly beforehand (respectively). How could grandpa not know anyway? Plus he's dead now so the story from his point of view is I guess not too important. And cousin just thought it was neat and shrugged it off. Now he's dead too.

i believe the answer to the second question is that the story isn't finished yet and I think you will find out the significance of that later.

I could be wrong, but my memory of the book had Paul embracing his wrathful side after his son w Johnny was murdered by Harkonnens, and this son did not exist in Villeneuve’s film

xp

Yeah I figured, but at the moment it feels less impactful because from an audience perspective those particular characters are removed so the potential darth vader drama dynamic has to come from brand new characters, or some purely inherent race-based negative reason would have to be clarified, so without anything to latch onto yet I'm shrugging at this "huge reveal(?)".

In fact my biggest issue with the film despite having fun watching it was that I felt very little tension throughout.

it's kind of a silly thing but I kept waiting for Paul to yell "Muad'dib" and people exploding because of an action in an old BBS chat room that I visited in the 90s. only to find out this was very much only a thing in the David Lynch movie (which I haven't seen)

probably a good thing, that woulda gotten all of the Fedaykin killed in 5 minutes in real life...and probably Paul too.

ultimately I was able to follow almost everything in the movie but I tihnk it's time i start reading the books

time to bring back the weirding module (the only good module)

I'm probably going to read the books now that I have a better idea of what the fuck is supposed to be going on.

Speaking as someone who only knows the films and not the original source material, I took the Vader reveal to be a way for him to resolve this current portion of the story and set up the next. i.e., he is a bloodline to both Atreides and Harkonnen, and he is the leader of the Fremen, and he is the prophet foreseen by the Bene Jesuits, and he has agreed to take the hand of the Emperor's daughter in marriage. So by the end of the film he has come to be a Great Unifier of all parties we've come to know. But now he is poised to take on all the other houses in a great holy war, so yeah there is more to do.

My son and I have been talking about all the Star Wars-like beats in this film actually predate Star Wars--something that is a little hard for him to wrap his head around since he's lived with Star Wars since he was 4 and knows its mythos deeply. But about 2/3 into the film he leans over to me and says Paul isn't Luke, he's Annakin. Anyway he loved both parts of this film and wants to buy the book asap.

I haven't read the book since high school, so watching these movies has really reminded me how much Lucas just straight stole from it. (Yes, he cribbed from all over, but especially Dune.)

Also there was something relatively recent--maybe it was Book of Boba Fett?--where they were suddenly talking about "spice" as this valuable commodity.

How are the 70mm prints? Seeing it in said format next week.

I’m more partial to Villrneuve’s Quebec films, but he is extremely consistent

xpost -- Oh yes there was, and believe me, I noticed.

Saw my screening with 70mm -- perfectly fine, though there were a couple of reel changeover amusement moments where I think it was clear they didn't work with the format all that often. Will be catching IMAX next week.

Anyway, that's a headline.

https://gizmodo.com/dune-2-sandworm-dismount-denis-villeneuve-messiah-wb-1851306314

re: the anakin thing; i was remembering the awful scene in attack of the clones where he explains to padme how "we should just pick one guy to decide everything for everyone and follow him", and then just picturing him watching this and feeling mega jealous "SEE THIS IS WHAT I FUCKING MEANT"

they were suddenly talking about "spice" as this valuable commodity.

Considering how much of sci-fi is a reworking and rehashing of good old Terran colonialism and the Age of Exploration (and Exploitation), there's plenty of historical precedent for "spice" being a valuable commodity. Herbert was just dipping into the common pool of historical material.

https://x.com/humanoidhistory/status/1764552798882890201?s=46

Considering how much of sci-fi is a reworking and rehashing of good old Terran colonialism and the Age of Exploration (and Exploitation), there's plenty of historical precedent for "spice" being a valuable commodity. Herbert was just dipping into the common pool of historical material.

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, March 4, 2024 bookmarkflaglink

Sure but when the term is used on a Star Wars TV show made in the 2020s that takes place on a desert planet, I think they're just ripping off Dune.

spice has been a thing in star wars forever! “what are we going to do! we’ll be sent to the spice mines of kessel” is said by c3po right before they evacuate the ship at the very beginning of the first star wars movie release

that is to say, they ripped that off dune from the drop

Depends on whether they're talking about Dune "spice" or black pepper, nutmeg and cloves.

in the star wars universe it was originally a drug but disney has gone back and forth on whether they’re going to change that

the only movie to visit kessel was Solo, where a mining operation was extracting something that could be used as fuel

so spice in Star Wars is either a psychoactive drug, or a fuel that facilitates travel through hyperspace. in Dune, spice is a psychoactive drug that facilitates travel through hyperspace.

Herbert was apparently a big psilocybin enthusiast, that must have been a significant influence on his writing to say the least.

that video of timothee chalamet and zendaya with the popcorn is one of the more sinister things ive seen recently so of course i added the annihilation music to it pic.twitter.com/URPsTfBRFx

— zach silberberg (@zachsilberberg) March 4, 2024

No cut scenes to be released it seems. And Tim Blake Nelson still can’t say who he was playing.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/dune-2-deleted-scenes-1235842178/

is that because he might appear in the third one?

The article speculates as much, in re the character I was guessing he’d play.

this was interesting: https://reactormag.com/the-muslimness-of-dune-a-close-reading-of-appendix-ii-the-religion-of-dune/

I was just reading about the apparently (and I don't doubt it :( ) antisemitic inclusion of Actual Jews in the sixth book :o