US Politics, March 2024: The house of illuminati will NOT be holding any other event in the foreseeable future.

Those people who are anti Biden because of foreign policy matters, where do they generally stand on Ukraine?

The great thing about people who "protest" by not voting against the most odious criminal the US political system has ever shat out is that they will remain pure of heart, so you can't possibly hold anything horrible that might happen after the election against them, because they only did what they did out of the purity and goodness that glows within them like E.T.'s heart-light. If you can't see the glow, it's just because you're as corrupt as the system itself, and they feel sad for you.

It’s amazing the lengths to which you will go to blame voters who are voting their consciences and not politicians, who aren’t representing their constituents’ interests or desires.

Considering that we know just how bad it might (will) get under Trump, I tend to agree with unperson. Imho, knowing that you voted your conscience will be of scant comfort or utility under a fascist regime.

whenever i wanna really satisfy my conscience i consider self immolation, that way other people don't have to suffer an obvious bad consequence for sake of my conscience. so far i settle for voting though.

shitty post

Keep pets and children away from your self-immolation.

FPed Hunter for that

i like you but i welcome that.

It’s amazing the lengths to which you will go to blame voters who are voting their consciences and not politicians, who aren’t representing their constituents’ interests or desires.

Dude, I say this with all the kindness I can muster: fuck your conscience. Voting is not praying. It is a utilitarian calculation based on maximum localized benefit. Joe Biden has done some things I don't like. He has also been a vastly better president than any other in my lifetime. Allowing the worst president in modern American history a second term, for any reason, is fucking inexcusable.

I'm not your dude. Go fuck yourself.

That so many here and in the media scape blame voters for not supporting politicians who aren't representing their interests instead of the politicians who aren't representing their constituents' interests is really telling.

Which interests, though?

All Constituents Matter

in South Florida the only party that endorses gay marriages, supports trans care and counseling, has called for executive action and legislation to give women total abortion access is the Democratic Party -- that at least gives lip service to the potential of the Fourteenth Amendment -- is the Democratic Party, therefore it represents this constituent's interests. Its position on Israel continues to be shitty and grievous, but I care more about the issues I mentioned in the previous sentence.

I cannot conceive of not voting against a criminal would-be dictator. To me, that is also a question of conscience. But, ymmv.

idk I seem to remember a lot of people insisting that if progressives banded together to deny Hillary the presidency then we'd get a true progressive next time. and our reward was Joe Biden. I mean there are ways to bring about real progressive change in this country, it's happened before, but it doesn't start from the top down. everyone's free to do what they want but yea it drives me nuts when people really passionate about say climate stuff abstain from voting because one guy isn't doing enough, when the other is openly hostile to the idea of renewable energy and literally pulled us out of the accord which most scientists feel is our last chance to save the planet. I get that both choices 'suck' but that's just living under capitalism. I guess if Trump wins at least you might not have to worry about having to make such difficult choices in the future!

The reward was a Supreme Court packed with right-wing religious fanatics with lifetime tenure.

I mean look at this the other way, why 'punish' the left for not being progressive enough rather than the right for being a party of lunatics and idiots who prop up criminals and Nazis? at the end of the day both parties get a say, both will be in and out of power, why insist the Overton window keeps shifting to the right?

here's the other sad fact: the majority of the country isn't progressive.

xp Being a party of lunatics and idiots appears to be working for them atm.

most of the country is somewhere in the middle, tilting toward the left, but not super left. the way to address this is at the grassroots and social level, not sitting out an election where a fucking dictator has a non zero chance of winning.

xp Being a party of lunatics and idiots appears to be working for them atm.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, March 4, 2024 11:14 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mean not really, they've underperformed in every election since Trump won. had 'traditional' factors applied the GOP probably could've turned this into a full-on fascist nation by now

Sure, but they control the House and (more importantly) the Supreme Court. They also appear to get to set the terms of the narrative.

In a sane world, they would have been consigned to the dustbin of history.

Trump and the GOP have lost pr underperformed in every election since 2016. They may likely lose the House in November (and us the Senate).

With the internet there are ni dustbins.

*no

Jesus fucking Christ pic.twitter.com/bkBjPD2DYZ

— ettingermentum🥥🌴 (@ettingermentum) March 4, 2024

Voting is not praying. It is a utilitarian calculation based on maximum localized benefit.

otm imo.

I think people of any/all ideological stripes can be far too precious about their votes, like it's some holy act. It's just a tool to use in a deeply flawed system. It can signify in your mind whatever you want it to, from full endorsement of a person and their platform to "Well, they're 22 percent better than the other guy," to just "Fuck THAT guy." But in practical terms, all that matters is the numbers that result. Intentions in either voting or not voting are entirely beside the point and are not registered anywhere.

sp

taking sides: thinking larry summers is a great guy to call for advice, or heavily respecting david brooks

*xp

Trump and the GOP have lost pr underperformed in every election since 2016. They may likely lose the House in November (and us the Senate).

Alfred, for a Britisher following along across the atlantic, which is more useful to have - the house or the senate?

LADY BRACKNELL. [Sternly.] Both, if necessary

In all seriousness, you need both.

Did Obama have both at one point?

for his first two years in office

and to be clear a veto-proof majority in the Senate for months

biggest squandered opportunity of my lifetime

the way to address this is at the grassroots and social level

Just a note that as I've mentioned before on here, I do volunteer work for unhoused advocacy/food rights orgs, environmental orgs, as well as prison abolition orgs. I vote on local and state matters, every election. I live in what is recently the bluest congressional district in the entire United States, and one which has regularly been in the top 10 in that regard.

None of these things will change the fact that our tax dollars are funding a genocide that is on full view for the entire world to see, and that the one person in our government who could do anything about it keeps bypassing congressional approval to send more armaments to kill Palestinian civilians. If Joe Biden stopped this— and he could!— then I would vote for him. I was planning on doing so, albeit unhappily because voting for president is always an unhappy exercise, before the current conflict.

You disapprove of this stance? Fine. But I am not the one who can change what is happening— that's on Joe Biden.

and to be clear a veto-proof majority in the Senate for months

filibuster-proof (for 178 days)

does the genocide stop once the GOP retakes control?

zients is a disaster

Wish Ron Klain was still the president

You disapprove of this stance? Fine. But I am not the one who can change what is happening— that's on Joe Biden.

This is fair, and probably many of us have individual red-line issues that by themselves can make it hard to pull that lever.

The one thing that I think is important is to put all this stuff in political rather than strictly moral context. Let's say Biden acted on Gaza in a way that you personally could support and thereby win your vote. What if — and I'm not asserting this, just making it a hypothetical — whatever action is necessary to get your vote and the votes of others like you was simultaneously politically harmful to him in such a way that he would lose more votes than he gains? And therefore also potentially the election? Worth it?

This is the problem I think with investing too much moral hope or passion at the presidential level. You've got two candidates vying to represent the whole country. I accept that there are some things that would make me really like a candidate that could also make them unelectable. Do I want them to do them anyway? Not necessarily! I care more about The Bad Guys having less power to affect my life and the lives of those around me than I do about moral/principled stands by losing candidates.

But obv ymmv

(And by calling one side The Bad Guys, I don't mean to imply that the other side is The Good Guys. I will settle for The Less Bad Guys.)

The one thing that I think is important is to put all this stuff in political rather than strictly moral context. Let's say Biden acted on Gaza in a way that you personally could support and thereby win your vote. What if — and I'm not asserting this, just making it a hypothetical — whatever action is necessary to get your vote and the votes of others like you was simultaneously politically harmful to him in such a way that he would lose more votes than he gains? And therefore also potentially the election? Worth it?

Yes, but I don't think this is what would happen— just as people will vote for him while he's aiding and abetting genocide, they will vote for him when he isn't doing so, and he will probably *gain* a number of voters, too.

question for those who disapprove of biden's ongoing, blind support of genocide, but are voting for him because not voting for biden is essentially a vote for trump (note -- i may fall into this camp):

how should everyday people like you or me exert pressure on biden and nearly all democratic senators to stop supporting genocide? is there anything more persuasive than "we won't vote for you"? what is the correct way to try to stop support for genocide while still voting for the person who enables it?

because unless i'm mistaken, democrats are counting on people like us to vote for them despite their support for genocide, which i believe means we have zero leverage in their thinking on it

Local action, local candidates. If you're in a safely blue district, organize for or at least vote for the most progressive candidates you can find for state legislature and Congress. That's where you're more likely to get those voices willing and able to speak up.

well the assumption there is that if the Dems start *losing* elections, they'll start changing their positions on these sorts of issues...which we clearly can see has never really happened

The only part of the story on which I call bullshit is this bit, which can happen anywhere:

But she said the final straw was when she couldn’t find a surgeon to remove a 6-inch tumor from her liver that doctors warned could burst at any moment and lead to life-threatening sepsis. After being passed among doctors, she finally found one willing to remove the tumor. But when she called to schedule the surgery, her calls went unanswered and her messages weren’t returned. After months of trying and fearing for her life, she returned to Kansas to have the procedure done.

Y’know hoss you can do some back of the envelope math and discover what it costs to live somewhere in like 30 minutes.

They can deny global warming all they like at the FLA state house, the insurance actuaries really don’t care.

"Confederate flags at the gate and swastikas on the fish tank" for April Thread Title.

Could be shortened to "Swastikas on the fish tank"

#RejectedRambleTambleLyrics

Having grown up in Oklahoma, Smith considered herself a Republican, but as Florida’s politics shifted to the right, she said she began to consider herself a Democrat. It wasn’t until the past several years, though, that politics started to encroach on her daily life — from feuds between neighbors and friends to neo-Nazis showing up at a Black Lives Matter rally in her small town.

“When I first moved to Florida, it was a live-and-let-live sort of beach feel. You met people from all over, everybody was relaxed. That’s just gone now, and it’s shocking. It’s just gone,” said Smith, 61, who works as a graphic designer and illustrator. “Instead, it’s just a constant stressful atmosphere. I feel as though it could ignite at any point, and I’m not a fearmonger. It’s just the atmosphere, the feeling there.”

Huh - that's pretty interesting and a possible bellwether.

“For this pro-business, free state, I’m feeling it in the wallet, bad.”

Yup. More inclusive societies will always have the better economy. How's that "freedom" tasting?

The only part of the story on which I call bullshit is this bit, which can happen anywhere

Maybe it can, but does it? I don’t know of very many stories about people being unable to schedule lifesaving surgeries in Taxachusettes.

was promised cheezburgers in paradise maaaan. sold my remaining flip flop and got the fuck out of two songs at once.

New Thread: US Politics, April 2024: "Are You Better Off Today Than You Were <Checks Notes> Four Years Ago?"