Words, usages, and phrases that annoy the shit out of you...

trying not to shit-stir here, but I actually thought the start for all this was a different post--not by ENBB--that was explicitly about servers

I kind of want to start a "curious phrases" thread as there are a couple of local usages I've been intrigued by lately. Everyone in Montreal (yes, I know literally tout le monde ici) has been saying "if ever" lately, and I can't figure out if it's a french crossover or I just never noticed this common expression before

you're not sure if its ever been commonly used before, if ever?

lol fair, but it's used more specifically like this:

"If ever there's interest"
"I am exhausted but if ever you were available"
"Lemme know if ever there's anything else I can help with"
"no rush, if ever you can send it along by Monday"

two of those are direct quotes from a francophone friend, but the others are from anglophones

thats quute normal but it is a bit jane austen, possibly via richard curtis, right?

xp start that thread so I can link my favourite Wikipedia page of all time

xps gentlemen, you can’t police language in here, the language cop thread

deems otm. also, this thread gets ridiculous quite often with the phrases that get complained about but why do we really believe there's a deep-seated contempt for servers on ILX of all places? it feels a lot like ENBB and/or everyone else being criticized for 'hating service industry workers' are having a lot projected onto them. why are we having the "This is what you REALLY meant" Olympics in here?

95% of this thread is making fun of things said in a work environment to begin with.

separating the speaker from the words they speak in a peeve thread about language use is not possible. it's baked in.

LL is 100% correct here

except the assumption is that the disdain for the phrase is disdain for everyone who belongs to the industry in which the phrase is heard, which is....a huge leap in logic.

Neanderthal otm

Oh Matt you are not going to like what the term “gooners” means now.

I looked this up and hmm yes, actually it's not too bad a metaphor for Arsenal's wait for a league title

like...I can only speak for me, but my initially assumption was that the phrase "welcome in" came from corny managers and executives making six figures, and was forced upon service workers to say, similar to how people who work at Firehouse are told they have to say "welcome to Firehouse".

and we spend most of our time in this thread mocking the out of touch nature of corporate speak.

except the assumption is that the disdain for the phrase is disdain for everyone who belongs to the industry in which the phrase is heard, which is....a huge leap in logic.

― CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Friday, March 15, 2024 10:12 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Exactly.

Love to be lectured by people who would collapse if they had to do the work that people like LL and I do on busy nights at the bar/restaurant.

The phrase sounds fine to me, but one of the things I (lol) appreciate about this thread is that there are a lot of people from other English speaking places with regional differences in language! I totally respect and understand ENBB feelings about it and don’t see it as anything other than something she perceived as an awkward turn of phrase.

except the assumption is that the disdain for the phrase is disdain for everyone who belongs to the industry

I think it's a fair assessment, as I haven't really seen anyone who dislikes the phrase explain why they dislike it in linguistic terms* that would eliminate "the people who say it" as a contributing factor. if you're saying the usage is wrong but can't tell me why it is wrong purely in terms of language use, are you really talking about words?

like, if you ask me if I am racist I will say no, I am not. that doesn't mean you are wrong if you point out something I do is racist, and when that happens I should probably consider your take, because "I don't think I'm a racist, so nothing I do can be racist" isn't great.

*someone said the preposition was unnecessary, but... redundant and unnecessary words are used constantly and without critique in English, so that doesn't hold water as an explanation (for example, few of you are probably angry that I said "doesn't hold water" instead of the more concise "holds no water" that omits the redundant verb "do" and requires an apostrophe).

doesn't require an apostrophe

Love to be lectured by people who would collapse if they had to do the work that people like LL and I do on busy nights at the bar/restaurant.

Xposts - That is exactly why though - it is redundant and sounds unnecessary. Of course there are other examples but in this particular instance it seems unnecessary and sounds very odd. Sorry that holds no water but I do think that's exactly why it sounds a bit funny.

why only in this instance? if it is redundant and unnecessary you don't like, surely the most frequently redundant and unnecessary usages in English (like meaningless do) would make up the bulk of this thread. they don't.

It's not only in this instance but that's the one that was brought up and that everyone was discussing.

why did you include the unnecessary and redundant "it's not only in this sentence but" in your post, I thought you cared about eliminating such things

why did you include the unnecessary and redundant "it's not only in this sentence but" in your post, I thought you cared about eliminating such things

f. hazel, you're really going to compare this to racism? That's a bad (and problematic) analogy for a lot of reasons.

This is a thread about annoying phrases. It often involves phrases heard in the workplace. I and others have brought out own examples.

I would wager many itt bringing their own examples are in thankless jobs where they are underpaid and governed by toxic management.

I worked in the service industry for years and left it purely due to the toxicity and it's obviously gotten worse since then. That's not lost on me.

That doesn't mean "mentioning the phrase 'welcome in' is annoying" is an assault on the service industry.

But this is also a thread where it was believed that I actually wanted to ban restaurants so y'know what, fuck this thread

Also it's pretty gross to make ENBB a whipping person in all this

(and I was on team "who fuckin cares" when it comes to the phrase!)

omg

my specific bouef with her posts was the claim that you could separate disdain/contempt for the phrase from disdain/contempt for the speaker. that's just not true. suggesting that is disingenuous. if ANYONE would simply admit that they have unacknowledged/unexamined disdain for service workers (evidenced throughout this gargantuan thread) we could stop having this conversation.

the language is a proxy. like dress codes are a proxy.

I reject the idea that I have unacknowledged disdain for service workers because I find a particular turn of phrase strange. That is actually an insane and completely out of bounds claim to make. I will state again that I have been a busgirl, a waitress, a hostess and a bartender. I have worked 3 coffee shops. My mother's career was being a hostess. I have considered going back into hospitality so that is just not true. I can think a phrase sounds funny without having contempt for someone using it.

this is not about you, specifically

thanks for calling me insane though

if ANYONE would simply admit that they have unacknowledged/unexamined disdain for service workers (evidenced throughout this gargantuan thread) we could stop having this conversation.

"Confess! Confess!"

wow

I did not call you insane. I said that was an insane claim to make which it is. You keep saying that I clearly hate service workers which just is not true.

I cannot stand the phrase "cooperative learning" so I guess I have contempt for teaching?

LL, just as I came off like an asshole yesterday, you are coming off like an asshole today. You're not alone, but it's particularly unusual for you — I think you're one of ILX's most empathetic posters most of the time. This discussion is getting the better of you, for some reason, and I don't think you can see it.

hate to inform on the language cop thread, but did you all miss these other posts or something?

"What can I get started for you today?" is my personal "welcome in" of this past decade

***

"My name is Earl and I'll be taking care of you tonight."

Oh, thank god, Earl, I can't tell you how long I've waited for someone to take care of me.

***

I've already noted my dislike of "Are you still working on that?" "I'll be taking care of you" is just another one of those overused and awkward phrases to me.

***

"What can I get started for you" doesn't aggravate me, and I assume it's used to remind jerks there's a made-to-order process involved, but it does kinda feel like it's trying to disclaim responsibility for the meal? Like "look, I will initiate the process of your food being prepared, but honestly, a lot of this is out of my hands"

***

while we're picking on unfortunate wait staff, "that's going to be your menu" annoys me no end. It *is* my menu.

I am curious if there’s anyone here who hasn’t been a service worker at some point in their lives?

I don’t want to assume that everyone has had to be “the help” and have their language controlled/determined

I cannot stand the phrase "cooperative learning" so I guess I have contempt for teaching?

I am curious if there’s anyone here who hasn’t been a service worker at some point in their lives?

I never waited tables per se, but my first job at 15 was at Baskin-Robbins (ice cream store); I was also a convenience store cashier, worked in a bakery, and was a cashier at one of the food courts in Newark Airport, and at Barnes & Noble (they eventually moved me to the stockroom because I was tired of dealing with the public by then).

Nobody asked me, but I think it is possible to find a phrase weird or off-putting while still a) being 100% OK with other people using it, and b) understanding and appreciating how language evolves. Nineteen years ago on this very thread, I posted that "I kind of despise brain fart." And I still do! But that's my problem; I'm not going to judge you if you say it. The modern use of "eat"/"ate" has a similar slightly grating quality to me, but I'm simultaneously delighted by its existence.

It wouldn't have occurred to me find "welcome in" unusual (maybe because it's something I've heard often enough at restaurants without really registering it), and so it doesn't bother me. But the discussion on this thread, and the Eater article that was posted, made me realize that it is a little odd, in fact, and I can see how someone might bristle at it. I find that interesting! I don't doubt that some people are contemptuous of people who say phrases they dislike, but I don't think that disliking a phrase is intrinsically tied to contempt for its speaker.

i was at a restaurant today (in England) and the waitress and my friend the customer spent about 10 minutes in total apologising to each other

xp I don't think reasonable takes like that are allowed on this thread any more, sorry

I've never heard welcome in. Perhaps I have simply not been worthy of welcoming in.

i was at a restaurant today (in England) and the waitress and my friend the customer spent about 10 minutes in total apologising to each other

― kinder,

out of Becket.

ok i went for a walk (which i had planned to do anyway, not because of anything here) and am relieved that no one has chimed in to agree that i am being an asshole. i'm going to take the liberty of writing a little more than i usually do.

one of the reasons i am good at my jobs (teacher and server) and actually rather enjoy both is because i genuinely like interacting with people, and it's easy for me. i like it AND i am good at it. i can be my best self, and enjoy it. especially on a limited basis, with a time constraint after which i can say goodbye. i get to interact with people, be genuine, and overall spread goodwill. that is pretty cheesy, but that's me.

i am also longtime ilxor and, as noted in one of my posts from two years ago that i am too tired to look up again, an admitted glutton for punishment. i wandered into this thread years ago to see what people find annoying. and what did i find? i am the person they find annoying. it's me. the friendly actually hoping you have a great night person serving your dinner. seeing that made me feel bad, i will admit that. it was like seeing a conversation in which students are talking about how annoying i am. it made me feel bad. personally, i don't think that is weird. i am both friendly and sensitive.

so i tried to stand up for myself, over and over. and over and over people would tell me that i am not seeing what i am seeing, an annoyance with people who are trying to provide good service. people who actually want you to have a great night. people like me.

whether or not anyone here is able to separate the speaker from their language? i will adjust my appraisal to idk but that is why i am reacting so strongly. it hurt my feelings to see that people found me annoying. the end. :)

tl;dr -- i should have more self-control and not look. i have gotten a lot better in this regard but not enough apparently.

_Love to be lectured by people who would collapse if they had to do the work that people like LL and I do on busy nights at the bar/restaurant._


You do remember I spent years cleaning up after you and your friends at shows and poetry readings, yeah?

LL, I get what yr saying and feel like part of what’s happening here is that you and I are saying “this really feels bad for these reasons” and people are like “no it doesn’t because that isn’t what i am doing”

but that is what we perceive them to be doing, which should be enough of a reason to…not do it! but alas.

ENBB otm. Finding a particular turn of phrase annoying, overused, awkward, etc. does not imply disdain or hostility to the speaker. I find some of the language used by members of my own profession at least as annoying as anything used by someone in food service.

you and I are saying “this really feels bad for these reasons” and people are like “no it doesn’t because that isn’t what i am doing”

What I read was "this feels bad because you are expressing hostility toward people in my line of work" which, speaking for myself, was certainly not my intent.

So nobody can say that a phrase used by customer service people annoys them in a thread about annoying phases?

I have seen many examples in here of things I have used/said both in work communication and othwrwise. I am sure other people have as well. I have never assumed that meant the poster would hate me if I used that phrase with them.

Why shouldn't it be enough when people are telling you that definitely isn't why they meant/felt? I think there is a whole lot of projecting going on here.

LL, I get what yr saying and feel like part of what’s happening here is that you and I are saying “this really feels bad for these reasons” and people are like “no it doesn’t because that isn’t what i am doing”

but that is what we perceive them to be doing, which should be enough of a reason to…not do it! but alas.

― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table)

you are each demanding that what you insist is happening is in fact happening

it hasnt been happening and i don't see why anyone should have to agree it is, regardless of that insistence

forcing any topic as uncontroversial as this into "this makes me feel x y and z" in order to lecture ppl is not a good behaviour and not rushing to feed it is not an attack- nor is it telling anyone "you are not feeling x y or z"

at worst its a fairly ambivalent "feel x, y or z so that's not really what was said but whatever"

do you think people have to do more than that whether they agree with you or not? that's pretty controlling behaviour imo and i think it's actually healthier to call it out.

your own entry was provocative and dramatic, but it was no more a reflection of the actual discussion as any other spin on things from anyone else. the phrasing around this discussion has been several different things at once and nobody gets to insist its any one thing, but even if they had that right - does anyone claim that right?- the angle being pushed here is an extremely forced one as far a i can see it.

and i started out noting that having an issue with the phrase is weird, fwiw.

ppl had already said theyd worked or continue to work service jobs prior to your line of "the work we do would kill u normies", a level of input that is far below what you are well capable of and its not in harshness that i say that!

i think neanderthal very clearly set out the acres of difference between finding many elements of - lets call it US service speak- grating or irritating or whatever and stating "i hate service staff" and ppl cannot make that any clearer without it becoming a case of everyone posting only in a fashion and manner to please a very small and limited opinion set and sensitivity here. its gone a long way into persecution complex, again i dont see whats healthy about boosting that if one doesnt in any way agree with it

to the nub of it, its simply not reasonable behaviour and - again- nobody should be fingerwagged into thinking it is, and tbh conversely nobody on the other side should be encouraged into thinking it is.